would you guys recommend a racing school before entering HPDE. it's just a matter of precaution. i feel that it'd be to my advantage to take such as school before i enter HPDE & since i believe NASA of norcal is done for this year.

i'm aware that driving open-wheel karts will be completely different from driving my own car, but if i do come up with the finances to enter the school, should i take it before HPDE? i just need some advice.

 

You seem to have the right attitude for beginner track driving anyway, but a driving school certainly won't hurt. I think you could do HPDE even without taking driving school course. I would do a little reading on weight transfer and related things so you don't get caught by surprise if you lift mid-corner for example. But if you enter a HPDE with caution in mind, not trying to do more than you can handle, then you should be safe. My main worry on HPDEs are always other drivers who think they're Fernando Alonzo when they're on the track. You can be 100% safe and cautious out there, but there is nothing you can do about other drivers in the heat of the moment.

One word of caution, school or not, there is always the possibility of your car being totalled, and most people would agree that if you can't afford that loss, then maybe you shouldn't take your car to the track.

NASA is probably the best place to start doing HPDE, as they usually will take action against assclown drivers. But if you pick your organization carefully, one that offers instruction for beginners, you should be OK too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vitt1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> My main worry on HPDEs are always other drivers who think they're Fernando Alonzo when they're on the track. You can be 100% safe and cautious out there, but there is nothing you can do about other drivers in the heat of the moment. </TD></TR></TABLE>

gladly noted. lol.

TIA,
clyde

 

As far as a racing school before an HPDE... I would say no. I had about 8 or so HPDE's before I went to racing school & I believe it helped me to understand what the school was talking about in the classes. When I got on the track, a lot of lingo, things I practiced, & stuff I learned in the HPDE helped me to fully understand what I was doing in racing school instead of being a complete nOOb getting frustrated w/ little things I already learned from HPDE's.

The money I put into racing school was used more to fine tune & learn important things instead of me trying to learn everything all @ once. I feel that you should do a few HPDE to get used to the basics. Use the school to learn things that you wouldn't from HPDE's.

My .02 & good luck on your decision.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 03ephatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would you guys recommend a racing school before entering HPDE.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I cannot think of a racing school that would be safe for you if you haven't already gone through HPDE of some kind.

If you have not done any driving on track at all, it seems to me that the NASA programme is just about the best place to start. It's not the cheapest, but they are thorough with track instruction and in the classroom.

You might outgrow NASA quickly if you turn out to be a very good driver, or if you are interested in certain kinds of racing, but it's a good place to start.

You said you thought No Cal was done for the season, but it's only August? It seems to me they should still have events planned in No Cal and So Cal well into November.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You might outgrow NASA quickly if you turn out to be a very good driver</TD></TR></TABLE>

NASA or HPDEs? After a you've gained experience, you may want to transition into wheel-to-wheel racing. There is plenty of room to grow within NASA (and SCCA).

As others have said, HPDEs is the place to start. The other nice thing is how many HPDEs you can do for the price of a racing school. Another alternative to a racing school (even better if you someday have a racecar) is to seek one-on-one instruction. Several of the Pro World Challenge guys offer instruction; there are also many others out there who could provide great instruction. Then again, most of the instructors at HPDEs are very good. (I'm a little biased here. )

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
NASA or HPDEs? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Either. I should not have typed my comment exactly the way I did.

When you get to Group 3 (Virginia)/Group 4 (California), you'll begin to realise that there might be more economical alternatives for driving.

The NASA atmosphere is great. It's a mix of racing and HPDE and you can learn a lot from being around the racers if it's racing you eventually want to be doing.

However, if you're at the stage where people are allowing you to pass anywhere on the track, and do it without instruction, then there are other alternatives to get the seat time.

For example, in one day of BSR/Summit Point's Seat Time events, you will get as many sprint sessions in as you'd get in an entire weekend with NASA, and you'll get that seat time in without having to pay for a hotel. You have to know what you're doing, because they basically turn you loose on track with just a salute at pit out.

NASA is at a stage where they (we) are cramming in so very much in a day that it can be daunting. You really have to keep your eyes on the schedule and listen to the speakers for announcements of changes to that schedule. I think the most annoyance is to Group 2 (Virginia Intermediate) people, who are pressured at this intermediate stage on the track <u>and</u> pressured with the class and scheduling.

NASA is also at a stage where the race groups have a mix of different cars in a sprint session that can make for a 20 mph difference (or more) between the car being overtaken and the car doing the overtaking. Watching a recent video taken from inside an H1 car was really rather scary, watching him trying to get past a Legends car that clearly had more than a 20 mph difference in potential and which was really very unsteady and perhaps rather pressured trying to keep his eye on his line and also on what the overtaking H1 car was trying to do.

I don't know what to do about that...but it certainly makes life interesting and it certainly singles out as winners the drivers who can handle traffic! I guess it's just a part of racing.

Anyway...the NASA experience is unique in how it mixes up all kinds of activities going on at the same time...but we'd be idiots to believe that people wouldn't wander away if it's too much pressure for them.

A recent development here in Virginia has been a budding group of advanced HPDE drivers who for a very small additional charge are allowed to drive in both Group 3 (Group 4 in California) <u>and</u> Group 4 (Instructors in California). This gives the user a total of six sprint sessions/day or 12 over a two day weekend and it makes NASA a much more attractive proposition for older drivers.

As you can imagine, you have to be careful implementing this kind of thing, because the driver will almost never have time for the Advanced Classroom instruction. The group has to be limited to fairly well developed and more experienced drivers, and there has to be room in both groups, but it's an interesting development that will probably keep older drivers interested in NASA for a few more years.

 

I was talking about racing/driving schools that offer high performance driving courses for beginners. There are some "racing" schools here in CA that offer driving instructions for beginner drivers. You get more bang for your buck at a HPDE that offers instruction, but it was never indicated that money was a limiting factor.

 

how much are racing schools there?

i paid $340 for a two day course...basic and advanced
everything provided...car, suit, helmet, sock, lunch
in my case..it was well worth it since i have never been on a track...
only thing we have on Guam is autox
its a big difference
id like to take my car out on a track someday tho

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it was never indicated that money was a limiting factor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The response wasn't meant to imply that money was a factor in determining which route is typically the best for a novice driver. The more seat time you get (racing schools or HPDEs) the better.

As Trickturn stated, you would probably get more out of a racing school if you did a couple HPDEs first. Or you could do a few racing schools.

 

I've heard great things about this school

http://www.raceschool.com/news....html

and it is only $2300 for 3 days

you get 17 hours of driving time in those 3 days


Modified by ekim952522000 at 10:28 AM 8/15/2006

 

Totally not necessary. Basically, the group 1 HPDE is a driver school. You have an instructor with you for the duration anyway.

HPDE is a logical step in gaining track experience. The point that taking a few HPDE track days will help you understand and learn more from a driver school is dead right. There is a lot that can be learned at a driver school, but there is no substitute for seat time.

All that said, the advantage to a formal driver school is that there are several that offer a competition license for SCCA or NASA upon completion. If that's your end goal & you're in a hurry, that's the way to go. Just be sure the school you are looking at includes licensing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 03ephatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i believe NASA of norcal is done for this year. </TD></TR></TABLE>

NASA NorCal has 3 events left this year which offer HPDE 1:

http://www.nasaproracing.com/schedules/norcal.html

 

thank you very much guys for the inputs. guess everyone agrees... try out HPDE first!

 

clyde - shoot me an email ill let you know more about the schools up here - or just the option of private coaching - i do it for a bunch of Ferrari guys and soon some EVO guys..

but if you want to learn the fundementals i recommend SKIP BARBER



Robbie

 

lol. i knew you were gonna come up over here robbie. i have heard from a few club drivers about some individuals doing their own type of schools/ classes. nothing as big as skip's. btw, is that f2 racing that you do? kinda curious to what type of racing that is. TIA rob. i'll be in touch. sold the kart?

regards

 

HPDE or racing school, track time is track time. Ive done a total 4 days of racing school and my first hpde yesterday was in group 3 and I felt real comfortable going straight to 3. The good things about skip barber though are 1. its not your car, 2. only 16 people on the track at one time so really no traffic at all, and 3. its not your car!!! but it is around 3g's for skippy and if you put that into hpde's you would get a hell of a lot of track time. So its really up to you and your wallet!

 

we (skip barber) did a program with the tuner magazines that will be on newsstands around now (TPR Magazine, DSport, Turbo Magazine, Import Tuner, Modified, C16) on how spending money on a driving/racing school will benefit you more than spending that much money on parts for your car..

as someone stated, its not your car! we push you past the limits of the car to learn where the limit is and by far you will have the best instructors in the country

after racing with the NASA group yesterday in the ustcc/enduro race i wish 3/4 of the drivers in that race had gone through a real racing school!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zentraedityper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">after racing with the NASA group yesterday in the ustcc/enduro race i wish 3/4 of the drivers in that race had gone through a real racing school!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Now that's a scary statement.

My point about doing a racing school vs. HPDE is that on *some* HPDEs you are lucky to get 60 to 70 minutes of track time total for the day. There are others where you get more than 2 hours. So, depending on who you sign with up for HPDE it can be a really good bang for the buck, especially if there is instruction available (But I mean good instruction, not just someone who is slightly better than the average track driver).

OTOH, a friend recently told me of a Karting school for $375/day, for example, in which I have to believe you get a lot more seat time as well as classroom instruction. It all depends who you place your money with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zentraedityper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we (skip barber) did a program with the tuner magazines that will be on newsstands around now (TPR Magazine, DSport, Turbo Magazine, Import Tuner, Modified, C16) on how spending money on a driving/racing school will benefit you more than spending that much money on parts for your car..

as someone stated, its not your car! we push you past the limits of the car to learn where the limit is and by far you will have the best instructors in the country

after racing with the NASA group yesterday in the ustcc/enduro race i wish 3/4 of the drivers in that race had gone through a real racing school!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

How many hours of driving do you get at a 3 day racing school at skip barber
for $3,000

For a nasa hpde typical cost for a weekend is 280$ here in nor cal for 160 min of driving time

So you get 10.7 hpde's for 3000$ and 1712 min of driving time or 28.5 Hours

But the thing you have to factor in is you now have to drive to 11 Hpde weekends, and pay for brakes, tires, and gas for your own car for those weekends. Also no matter how good of instructor you end up with at a hpde it will be no where near the level of instruction you get at slkip barber.

So if you look at it that way I think skip barber's school sounds like a incredible deal.

 

This is from the website:

Day 1: Intense series of slalom, braking & downshifting exercises with special attention on double-clutch/heel-and-toe downshifting
Day 2: Series of high-speed lapping sessions combined with racing theory & advanced braking techniques
Day 3: Track drills in drafting, passing & racing in the rain; double-file race starts
& single-file restarts

You are driving pretty much from 9AM - 12PM and 1PM to 5PM. There is classroom time too that is very beneficial.. Plus you will get way more instruction then any HPDE anyday...



if you have any specific questions shoot me an email

 

zentraedityper Did you teach at leguna a month or so ago for the 3 day?

 

probably, i work out at laguna a lot... teach all the different schools..

Clyde - yeah, ill talk to you more about private coaching sometime.. last year i raced the star mazda formula car series.. similar to f3 in europe. still have the kart probably will sell it at the end of the year

Robbie

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zentraedityper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is from the website:

Day 1: Intense series of slalom, braking & downshifting exercises with special attention on double-clutch/heel-and-toe downshifting
Day 2: Series of high-speed lapping sessions combined with racing theory & advanced braking techniques
Day 3: Track drills in drafting, passing & racing in the rain; double-file race starts
& single-file restarts

You are driving pretty much from 9AM - 12PM and 1PM to 5PM. There is classroom time too that is very beneficial.. Plus you will get way more instruction then any HPDE anyday...



if you have any specific questions shoot me an email </TD></TR></TABLE>

I would say you are much better off going to skip barber than you would ever be spending that 3K at hpde's just my 2 cents

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zentraedityper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">probably, i work out at laguna a lot... teach all the different schools..

Clyde - yeah, ill talk to you more about private coaching sometime.. last year i raced the star mazda formula car series.. similar to f3 in europe. still have the kart probably will sell it at the end of the year

Robbie </TD></TR></TABLE>

thanx rob. hope all is well.

thanx again guys.