question for all you h22 ITB guys??
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most hood white kid
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Nashville
question for all you h22 ITB guys??
Ok, so I am looking into possibly getting a set of ITB's for my h22. Now, the main reason for this thread is b/c I really dont know if its worth the 1500 bucks. The only person that I know of with ITB's is h-t user 98vtec, and Im hoping he will chime in...
since the aftermarket world has sunned the h22 with shiity intake manifolds...
is the ITB upgrade worth it? or what other intake manifold is out there on the market? is modifying my h22 manifold the best bet? any and all opinions are welcome!
since the aftermarket world has sunned the h22 with shiity intake manifolds...
is the ITB upgrade worth it? or what other intake manifold is out there on the market? is modifying my h22 manifold the best bet? any and all opinions are welcome!
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,370
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From: Kitty Hawk, NC, 27949
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (egcoupe94)
i have heard good things about the blacktrax IM.
they use the stock IM and bore and out then polish it
there are different stages to sute your needs.
thats what im getting then maybe later on get some ITBS...
they use the stock IM and bore and out then polish it
there are different stages to sute your needs.
thats what im getting then maybe later on get some ITBS...
Thread Starter
most hood white kid
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,505
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From: Nashville
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (92hondalude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92hondalude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have heard good things about the blacktrax IM.
they use the stock IM and bore and out then polish it
there are different stages to sute your needs.
thats what im getting then maybe later on get some ITBS...</TD></TR></TABLE>
link to said IM??
they use the stock IM and bore and out then polish it
there are different stages to sute your needs.
thats what im getting then maybe later on get some ITBS...</TD></TR></TABLE>
link to said IM??
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,946
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From: ow my knee, CA
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (ECX)
itbs are dope so long as you have the mods to support em.
you really can't fuxx with the throttle response of itb's tho.
what's sad is that in the past year or 2 itb's have become more of a fashion statement than a performance part.
i say, if you daily drive the car, then itb's may be a bit too extreme.
you really can't fuxx with the throttle response of itb's tho.
what's sad is that in the past year or 2 itb's have become more of a fashion statement than a performance part.
i say, if you daily drive the car, then itb's may be a bit too extreme.
* B A N N E D *
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Hendersonville, NC, USA
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (soundbomber)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i say, if you daily drive the car, then itb's may be a bit too extreme.</TD></TR></TABLE>
x2
Ive heard lots of
about ITB's on DD's... just the overall driveability of the car changes alot with ITB's...
but however its your car, as long as your happy thats all that matters.
i say, if you daily drive the car, then itb's may be a bit too extreme.</TD></TR></TABLE>
x2
Ive heard lots of
about ITB's on DD's... just the overall driveability of the car changes alot with ITB's...but however its your car, as long as your happy thats all that matters.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Kitty Hawk, NC, 27949
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Thread Starter
most hood white kid
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,505
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From: Nashville
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (soundbomber)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">itbs are dope so long as you have the mods to support em.
you really can't fuxx with the throttle response of itb's tho.
what's sad is that in the past year or 2 itb's have become more of a fashion statement than a performance part.
i say, if you daily drive the car, then itb's may be a bit too extreme.</TD></TR></TABLE>
not really daily driven. I mean, I drive my car like 2-3 days out of the week, and I have my civic as a beater...
ive got major plans before I think about going with ITB's...
and I dont want ITB's as a fashion statement. I do see where you are coming from...everyone is like...ooo ITB's, and spooge in their pants...
you really can't fuxx with the throttle response of itb's tho.
what's sad is that in the past year or 2 itb's have become more of a fashion statement than a performance part.
i say, if you daily drive the car, then itb's may be a bit too extreme.</TD></TR></TABLE>
not really daily driven. I mean, I drive my car like 2-3 days out of the week, and I have my civic as a beater...
ive got major plans before I think about going with ITB's...
and I dont want ITB's as a fashion statement. I do see where you are coming from...everyone is like...ooo ITB's, and spooge in their pants...
Thread Starter
most hood white kid
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,505
Likes: 0
From: Nashville
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (ECX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ECX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
x2
Ive heard lots of about ITB's on DD's... just the overall driveability of the car changes alot with ITB's...
but however its your car, as long as your happy thats all that matters. </TD></TR></TABLE>
very true man...i knows its my car, and i need to make my own decisions...and im not asking for ppl to make a decision for me, just trying to get a broad range of opinions...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92hondalude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.blacktrax.net/</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks!
x2
Ive heard lots of
about ITB's on DD's... just the overall driveability of the car changes alot with ITB's...but however its your car, as long as your happy thats all that matters.
</TD></TR></TABLE>very true man...i knows its my car, and i need to make my own decisions...and im not asking for ppl to make a decision for me, just trying to get a broad range of opinions...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92hondalude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.blacktrax.net/</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks!
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Norfolk, VA, USA
+1 for the Blacktrax IM
ahhh my next mod....I cant wait. Will suit the JUN head so very well.....******* SMSP still out of my reach
Id say get the BTIM, but thats because I dont really care for ITB's
ahhh my next mod....I cant wait. Will suit the JUN head so very well.....******* SMSP still out of my reach
Id say get the BTIM, but thats because I dont really care for ITB's
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16,357
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From: Cantonment, FL
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (ECX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ECX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">x2
Ive heard lots of about ITB's on DD's... just the overall driveability of the car changes alot with ITB's...
but however its your car, as long as your happy thats all that matters. </TD></TR></TABLE>
have you ever driven a car with ITB's?
when i had my car running semi decent with throttle bodies not near the quality of an off the shelf set, my car drove like it was stock. Really easy to drive. Getting the car going from a stop was a little different. With the added throttle response, the engine revs ratherly freely. Basically stating that you can get up and go easier and smoother if the feather the throttle while you let out the clutch.
If i wouldnt have had a recurrent problem with the throttle linkage, i think they would be driving pretty decently. After a small fuel injector positioning adjustment.
i'd say that any off the shelf ITB setup is going to be too big for a stock motor. Thats why i went with the motorcycle throttles, smaller. Small enough to be used on stock motors and make power if put together correctly. Granted mine didnt come out the way i planned, i still learned that ITB's are alot of work and are tricky, but now I know what it takes to build a set. Takes alot of time and research to build them correctly. Throttle size, runner length, runner diameter, velocity stack design...etc You'll spend alot of time on the laptop to get them driving decently.
The money you spend on tuning, assuming you would be paying for it, would not be worth 1500 dollars on a stock motor. There are better ways to spend the money and get better power; like a set of cams and valvetrain.
thats my opinion atleast.
Ive heard lots of
about ITB's on DD's... just the overall driveability of the car changes alot with ITB's...but however its your car, as long as your happy thats all that matters.
</TD></TR></TABLE>have you ever driven a car with ITB's?
when i had my car running semi decent with throttle bodies not near the quality of an off the shelf set, my car drove like it was stock. Really easy to drive. Getting the car going from a stop was a little different. With the added throttle response, the engine revs ratherly freely. Basically stating that you can get up and go easier and smoother if the feather the throttle while you let out the clutch.
If i wouldnt have had a recurrent problem with the throttle linkage, i think they would be driving pretty decently. After a small fuel injector positioning adjustment.
i'd say that any off the shelf ITB setup is going to be too big for a stock motor. Thats why i went with the motorcycle throttles, smaller. Small enough to be used on stock motors and make power if put together correctly. Granted mine didnt come out the way i planned, i still learned that ITB's are alot of work and are tricky, but now I know what it takes to build a set. Takes alot of time and research to build them correctly. Throttle size, runner length, runner diameter, velocity stack design...etc You'll spend alot of time on the laptop to get them driving decently.
The money you spend on tuning, assuming you would be paying for it, would not be worth 1500 dollars on a stock motor. There are better ways to spend the money and get better power; like a set of cams and valvetrain.
thats my opinion atleast.
Thread Starter
most hood white kid
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,505
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From: Nashville
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (98vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
have you ever driven a car with ITB's?
when i had my car running semi decent with throttle bodies not near the quality of an off the shelf set, my car drove like it was stock. Really easy to drive. Getting the car going from a stop was a little different. With the added throttle response, the engine revs ratherly freely. Basically stating that you can get up and go easier and smoother if the feather the throttle while you let out the clutch.
If i wouldnt have had a recurrent problem with the throttle linkage, i think they would be driving pretty decently. After a small fuel injector positioning adjustment.
i'd say that any off the shelf ITB setup is going to be too big for a stock motor. Thats why i went with the motorcycle throttles, smaller. Small enough to be used on stock motors and make power if put together correctly. Granted mine didnt come out the way i planned, i still learned that ITB's are alot of work and are tricky, but now I know what it takes to build a set. Takes alot of time and research to build them correctly. Throttle size, runner length, runner diameter, velocity stack design...etc You'll spend alot of time on the laptop to get them driving decently.
The money you spend on tuning, assuming you would be paying for it, would not be worth 1500 dollars on a stock motor. There are better ways to spend the money and get better power; like a set of cams and valvetrain.
thats my opinion atleast.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so are u saying that your throttle response is worse now withthe ITBs?? Im not gonna put ITB's on a stock engine, it will be moderately built. But I figured I might as well start doing researdch now, considering it would be well into next year before I did anything of that sort...
have you ever driven a car with ITB's?
when i had my car running semi decent with throttle bodies not near the quality of an off the shelf set, my car drove like it was stock. Really easy to drive. Getting the car going from a stop was a little different. With the added throttle response, the engine revs ratherly freely. Basically stating that you can get up and go easier and smoother if the feather the throttle while you let out the clutch.
If i wouldnt have had a recurrent problem with the throttle linkage, i think they would be driving pretty decently. After a small fuel injector positioning adjustment.
i'd say that any off the shelf ITB setup is going to be too big for a stock motor. Thats why i went with the motorcycle throttles, smaller. Small enough to be used on stock motors and make power if put together correctly. Granted mine didnt come out the way i planned, i still learned that ITB's are alot of work and are tricky, but now I know what it takes to build a set. Takes alot of time and research to build them correctly. Throttle size, runner length, runner diameter, velocity stack design...etc You'll spend alot of time on the laptop to get them driving decently.
The money you spend on tuning, assuming you would be paying for it, would not be worth 1500 dollars on a stock motor. There are better ways to spend the money and get better power; like a set of cams and valvetrain.
thats my opinion atleast.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so are u saying that your throttle response is worse now withthe ITBs?? Im not gonna put ITB's on a stock engine, it will be moderately built. But I figured I might as well start doing researdch now, considering it would be well into next year before I did anything of that sort...
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Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (egcoupe94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so are u saying that your throttle response is worse now withthe ITBs?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
when i had my car running semi decent with throttle bodies not near the quality of an off the shelf set, my car drove like it was stock. Really easy to drive. Getting the car going from a stop was a little different. With the added throttle response, the engine revs ratherly freely. Basically stating that you can get up and go easier and smoother if the feather the throttle while you let out the clutch.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so are u saying that your throttle response is worse now withthe ITBs?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
when i had my car running semi decent with throttle bodies not near the quality of an off the shelf set, my car drove like it was stock. Really easy to drive. Getting the car going from a stop was a little different. With the added throttle response, the engine revs ratherly freely. Basically stating that you can get up and go easier and smoother if the feather the throttle while you let out the clutch.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 16,357
Likes: 6
From: Cantonment, FL
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (egcoupe94)
well if you are going to be adding cams, then i would go with a set of TWM's, although there are better companies than TWM, its just about the only company who makes them for the h22 without paying over 2k. If jenvey made a set, i would spend the extra to get them.....but they dont. Omnipower is coming out with a set of ITB's but i highly doubt there will be an h22 application. Maybe once they have seen that they are a good product, they will move on to more applications.
I'm pretty sure TWM makes a 50mm set for the h22 and a 52mm set. If the only thing you are doing to the motor is a mild build, i would shoot for the 50mm's. If you going to be raising the compression and going with a large lift cam, i'd use the 52mm set.
here are some great sites/threads that really helped me in my research:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1191757
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1144101
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=975931
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1491684
http://www.jenvey.com/~Tech_QA.htm - REALLY good stuff
http://www.pgmfi.org
http://www.homemadeturbo.com
I'm pretty sure TWM makes a 50mm set for the h22 and a 52mm set. If the only thing you are doing to the motor is a mild build, i would shoot for the 50mm's. If you going to be raising the compression and going with a large lift cam, i'd use the 52mm set.
here are some great sites/threads that really helped me in my research:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1191757
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1144101
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=975931
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1491684
http://www.jenvey.com/~Tech_QA.htm - REALLY good stuff
http://www.pgmfi.org
http://www.homemadeturbo.com
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Cantonment, FL
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (soundbomber)
i was talking about the other companies...lol
like weber carbs, jenvey..etc
TWM is a nice package, some just have sealing problems....but are fixable.
like weber carbs, jenvey..etc
TWM is a nice package, some just have sealing problems....but are fixable.
Thread Starter
most hood white kid
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,505
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From: Nashville
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (soundbomber)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most of the time, you can get the twm for under 2k with fuel rail and injectors too, that's ALWAYS a plus</TD></TR></TABLE>
TWM is roughly 1500...with fuel rail and injectors I believe...
TWM is roughly 1500...with fuel rail and injectors I believe...
Thread Starter
most hood white kid
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,505
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From: Nashville
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (98vtec)
Im going to be running 11.5:1 CR roughly, nothing set in stone yet. Its going to be a streetable setup, but not your average h22. Im looking to hit the 250whp plateau All Motor...
im building my block this winter, and by next winter, have my head built as well...
im building my block this winter, and by next winter, have my head built as well...
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From: Cantonment, FL
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (soundbomber)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there's also a japanese company called a-sports that makes h22 itb's</TD></TR></TABLE>
interesting....got a link to a site so i can read about them?
interesting....got a link to a site so i can read about them?
Thread Starter
most hood white kid
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,505
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From: Nashville
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (soundbomber)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nope, i almost bought a set of them from yahoo japan, but the base price for the auction was 2,500, so yeah, i couldn't afford it</TD></TR></TABLE>
sell a couple sets of those wheels and you can...
on a serious note, 98vtec, what kind of power gains have u seen from ur ITB install? dyno #'s?
sell a couple sets of those wheels and you can...
on a serious note, 98vtec, what kind of power gains have u seen from ur ITB install? dyno #'s?
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From: ow my knee, CA
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (98vtec)
http://www.autoadvance-inc.co.jp/ that's a-sports website, but the h22a kit is either custom or long discontinued
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From: Cantonment, FL
Re: question for all you h22 ITB guys?? (egcoupe94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcoupe94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sell a couple sets of those wheels and you can...
on a serious note, 98vtec, what kind of power gains have u seen from ur ITB install? dyno #'s?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont have them on anymore. Kept running into throttle linkage problems and i dont feel like and dont have the time to fix/toy with them anymore. Kept fouling plugs at idle as well, but thats likely because the injectors were not sitting vertical in the injector ports. The springs on the throttle linkage kept coming out. Could fix them by just bending the linkage tabs so they hold them in better, but honestly, i would rather sell them and let someone else fix them and get them running right. The things that are wrong with mine are a pretty easy fix for someone with the right tools.
they are currently for sale. Losing a good bit of money, but i guess it takes doing it to actually learn how to build them. And i know EXACTLY what to do now that i have seen it done and gone through all the research. In the event that i make another set, the price to make them would be cut in half since i can do all the work myself besides the welding.
now that that is said. I didnt get much of a chance to get them tuned perfectly; i was leaving for orlando only two days after the install. It takes a good bit of time for a beginner/novice tuner to get them running the way they are supposed to. After a day of tuning, my throttle response increased and my midrange - topend felt an increase with the butt dyno.
this is a video of them just slightly tuned from the map i was running before the itb's.
3rd gear torque steer , yea that was kinda scary since i was holding the camera in one hand...lol.
on a serious note, 98vtec, what kind of power gains have u seen from ur ITB install? dyno #'s?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont have them on anymore. Kept running into throttle linkage problems and i dont feel like and dont have the time to fix/toy with them anymore. Kept fouling plugs at idle as well, but thats likely because the injectors were not sitting vertical in the injector ports. The springs on the throttle linkage kept coming out. Could fix them by just bending the linkage tabs so they hold them in better, but honestly, i would rather sell them and let someone else fix them and get them running right. The things that are wrong with mine are a pretty easy fix for someone with the right tools.
they are currently for sale. Losing a good bit of money, but i guess it takes doing it to actually learn how to build them. And i know EXACTLY what to do now that i have seen it done and gone through all the research. In the event that i make another set, the price to make them would be cut in half since i can do all the work myself besides the welding.
now that that is said. I didnt get much of a chance to get them tuned perfectly; i was leaving for orlando only two days after the install. It takes a good bit of time for a beginner/novice tuner to get them running the way they are supposed to. After a day of tuning, my throttle response increased and my midrange - topend felt an increase with the butt dyno.
this is a video of them just slightly tuned from the map i was running before the itb's.
3rd gear torque steer
, yea that was kinda scary since i was holding the camera in one hand...lol.