I'm looking for advice on spring rates for GC's. I have a basically stock Civic Si that I'm running in STS. The stock springs are roughly 200f/100r and they feel firm, but there's still way too much body roll for my liking. At first I was planning on something like 450f/400r, but then I read that the OTS GC rates are pretty stiff for just being OTS.

This is my daily driven car, but I really couldn't care less about how rough it rides. Obviously I wouldn't want anything above the 600lb-in range, but I'm not too concerned about retaining a smooth ride.

The autocross courses around here are very varying Some weekends we will have a tight, technical course in a small parking lot, other weekends we will be on an airstrip with slaloms going 60+. Thus, I need something versatile that can handle a tight 180 without three wheeling the entire turn, but still be completely planted to the ground at a high speed slalom. And for what it's worth, I'd like to start attending some HPDE's, so it's not a solely autocross car.

So, with that said, I'd like to hear some real life autocrosser stories on what works/doesn't work for them and their Koni/GC setups.

 

I have run up to 600lb/in springs on OTS Koni's, which IMO is the max. they can handle. I now run the SPSS valving and it's way better. I personally don't mind 600's for the street, with the proper dampening it's not too bad. But different people will have different opinions on that.

I like my setup 600f/600r, stock swaybar up front and ST in the rear on full stiff. Works well for both soloI (on the track) and soloII. Suits my driving style, may not suit yours. Honestly you have to play with several sets of spring rates, there is not one magical spring rate that works for everyone.

BTW, all of this is on a '91 CRX.

 

2000 GSR daily driver / solo2 / HPDE car
full interior and 2815 lbs with driver
OTS Konis w/ GC 400/400 rates
Comptech rear swaybar, set full stiff
SPC front UCAs and 2.7*/1.2* camber, 4.3* caster
I'm lowered to 2 finger gap in the back, with a slight rake.

Daily use: I find the ride a bit stiff, and the GF complains a little about it, but its certainly tolerable. The springs are also not stiff enough to keep me off the bumpstops in the front. Not just potholes, but rain gutters and even transitions onto and off of a bridge on the freeway can bottom me out.

Autocross: Feels good to me. I'd like a little less body roll, but its not terrible. Car has more than enough rotation on turn in, but develops some mid corner understeer on sweepers. I also need more camber, in the front certainly and probably in the back too.

HPDE: I need stiffer springs, as I tap the rear bumpstops in turn 8 @ Willow Springs, giving me a little snap oversteer here and there. Otherwise it feels really good to me. Car turns in well and as long as the driver doesn't get overly ballsy and jump back on the gas too soon it tracks out nicely. I haven't attended too many HPDEs, so take that into consideration.

Personally, for my heavy *** car, I'm thinking of moving up to a 450/500 or 500/550 setup. A little more rear bias to try and get rid of some of the mid corner understeer, and a little stiffer overall to get off the bumpstops. Though, both my wallet and my butt cheeks tense up at that though for my daily commute.

 

If I were autocrossing an EM1 in STS, I'd be looking at about 800f/700r-ish with the 8041-Race Konis, the stock 26mm front bar and some sort of big aftermarket rear bar (be very wary of subframe tearout). You'll need to be at least that stiff up front to try to keep it off of the bump stops, assuming your ride height is set based on the amount of static camber you want.

You might want to go a little stiffer than that in the rear because the rear suspension of '96+ Civics has a pretty aggressive camber curve; the rear gains camber much faster than the front.

 

tunnernoob, too much rear camber can affect your turn-in feel and response. i'd suggest nothing over -1.5 in the rear, and front camber as much as possible. maybe some toe in the rear like a 1/32 each side...but i always forget if its supposed to be in or out in the rear.

but to the OP. I run 400F and 375R on std length spss3 valved konis. rides well, not rough to me in most of my daily drive. I'm sitting at 5-1/4" at the front jack points and 5-1/2" in the rear jack points, 1.5 'finger gap' , about 1" of piston travel using the GC tophats. I actually want to go stiffer, i'm just barely off the front bumpstops along some parts of my daily commute. But i'm going to try raising my car another 1/8" all around first.

 

I run GC 400f/450r springs and OTS Konis on my daily driven/Solo II/HDPE EJ1. I ordered my springs the same length (fronts are normally taller) so that if I didn't like the setup I could switch front to rear. They feel good on the street, almost stock, and have been great on the autoX course. I didn't get a camber kit, I just had a shop align the car to nuetral all around with a slight drop in ride hieght. Then when I get to the autoX I lower the front 4 turns which adds camber and toe out, or so I'm told.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2000 GSR daily driver / solo2 / HPDE car
full interior and 2815 lbs with driver
OTS Konis w/ GC 400/400 rates
Comptech rear swaybar, set full stiff
SPC front UCAs and 2.7*/1.2* camber, 4.3* caster
I'm lowered to 2 finger gap in the back, with a slight rake.

Daily use: I find the ride a bit stiff, and the GF complains a little about it, but its certainly tolerable. The springs are also not stiff enough to keep me off the bumpstops in the front. Not just potholes, but rain gutters and even transitions onto and off of a bridge on the freeway can bottom me out.

Autocross: Feels good to me. I'd like a little less body roll, but its not terrible. Car has more than enough rotation on turn in, but develops some mid corner understeer on sweepers. I also need more camber, in the front certainly and probably in the back too.

HPDE: I need stiffer springs, as I tap the rear bumpstops in turn 8 @ Willow Springs, giving me a little snap oversteer here and there. Otherwise it feels really good to me. Car turns in well and as long as the driver doesn't get overly ballsy and jump back on the gas too soon it tracks out nicely. I haven't attended too many HPDEs, so take that into consideration.

Personally, for my heavy *** car, I'm thinking of moving up to a 450/500 or 500/550 setup. A little more rear bias to try and get rid of some of the mid corner understeer, and a little stiffer overall to get off the bumpstops. Though, both my wallet and my butt cheeks tense up at that though for my daily commute.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah why is your car so heavy? I run 380/350 with about the same height from what it sounds like, except daily driven mine is ~2600lbs with me and I only hit bumpstops on big potholes. 2500lbs with me in auto-x trim. Most of my weight reduction is off the front.

I like my 380/350 GC/Koni setup for DD/auto-x, but I might up it to 400 all around soon. We'll see how it feels when I go from my 25.4mm S/T front bar back to stock 22.1mm this weekend.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisw85 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tunnernoob, too much rear camber can affect your turn-in feel and response. i'd suggest nothing over -1.5 in the rear, and front camber as much as possible. maybe some toe in the rear like a 1/32 each side...but i always forget if its supposed to be in or out in the rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm probably too cheap to bother with the rear camber any time soon, but getting to 1.5* might be nice. Maybe I'll just slot the uprights a little where the rear UCA bolts to them to gain a little. Mmmm, dremel time...

For toe, I'm running 0 toe front and back. The car is daily driven to work and back, and I don't want to deal with agressive toe settings on the street, nor the increased tire wear. I would assume toe out in the back would be beneficial for autocross, as toe in provides understeer and high speed and braking stability (which I'm guessing is why factory spec is a little rear toe in).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by polishrifle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...Then when I get to the autoX I lower the front 4 turns which adds camber and toe out, or so I'm told.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats brilliant. Yes, for any car with the tie rod behind the axle, lowering further than horizontal tie rods will start producing toe out. I think I'll have to start playing with that, to keep 0 toe on the street, and a little toe out in the front for autocross.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah why is your car so heavy? I run 380/350 with about the same height from what it sounds like, except daily driven mine is ~2600lbs with me and I only hit bumpstops on big potholes. 2500lbs with me in auto-x trim. Most of my weight reduction is off the front.

I like my 380/350 GC/Koni setup for DD/auto-x, but I might up it to 400 all around soon. We'll see how it feels when I go from my 25.4mm S/T front bar back to stock 22.1mm this weekend.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Edmunds lists the 01 GSR at 2672 curb weight, and the 98 LS at 2640. So thats 32 lbs advantage right there. Not sure about all years, but the 00 and 01 GSRs have all the options stock (leather, power everything, moon roof, etc...). 2815 that the car weighed in at - 2672 curb weight, leaves 143 for the driver, and I'm no where near that light. Working backwards, 2815 - 185 lbs driver = 2630 for the car which seems perfectly feasable consider the only weight reduction is removal of the spare, jack, stock airbox, and whatever gas I had burned out of the tank before weighing it. Time for some lighter seats, as the stock leathers are very heavy (especially the driver's with the 2 seat base height adjustments and adjustable lumbar).

What weight reduction off the front is STS legal?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by polishrifle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then when I get to the autoX I lower the front 4 turns which adds camber and toe out, or so I'm told.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The point of coilovers is to corner-weight them so your cross-weights are equal, not to take vague shot at changing your alignment every time you race.

 

I have the OTS gc's and konis. I think they make a great street setup, but IMO they are way too softly sprung to make a great autox car. I have a comptech rear sway full stiff and no front bar in a hatch and really feel it could use a lot more rotation when autoxing. On the street its perfect, not too stiff and I don't have to worry about spinning out on an offramp or something. JMHO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cruizinmax &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have the OTS gc's and konis. I think they make a great street setup, but IMO they are way too softly sprung to make a great autox car. I have a comptech rear sway full stiff and no front bar in a hatch and really feel it could use a lot more rotation when autoxing. On the street its perfect, not too stiff and I don't have to worry about spinning out on an offramp or something. JMHO.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How low are you and what is your alignment? Have you considered that the reason you're getting more understeer than you'd like is possibly because you're into the bump stops up front? A front bar may actually help slightly, provided your alignment isn't working against you.

You're right though, the OTS GC rates are still way too soft for a dedicated autocross effort.

 

I have a front swaybar and I disconnect it at autox due to the lack of rotation and front inside wheel spinning. Alignment I usually have 0 toe front and rear and camber is -2.8 front and probably around -1.5 in the rear. Ride height is just above where it hits the bumpstops. I kept raising the car until it didn't hit the stops at all on the street or autoxing. It ended up being around 1 finger gap.

 

set your rear camber to like -1 and see if that hleps improve turn in feel and response. generally the more neg camber you have in the rear the worse your turn in is going to be.

 

The snap oversteer is much worse with any less camber in the rear than that.

 

i have a 96 civic sedan and im about to purchase koni's with ground control's


what spring rates would you boys recommend