What do you guys think? The question is based off it being difficult to pass the DMV test on larger bikes, and that MSF courses are hard to get into in most areas.

What are the Pros and cons of making it 'easier' to obtain a license.

 

I'd like to make it more difficult, or perhaps even a stepped approach to getting licensing for different displacement bikes. However the system seems to work now... "let Darwin sort them out"

I am not sure displacement has a direct effect on other than it is MUCH easier to get into a bad situation when great cc's come into play. In addition, larger displacement motorcycles are usually physically larger, heavier bikes... hence harder to control. In California we have a stepped process for young drivers of automobiles... many rules apply to them that do not apply to the general public.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">perhaps even a stepped approach to getting licensing for different displacement bikes.

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Like in aussieland? That would be pretty sweet, maybe we could finally get the cool 250's over here too if they did that.

 

and 400's and everything else.

But almost every where but the us has stepped licensing systems...I take is our philosophy is to get them on the road with as little training as possible so we can increase revenue through traffic violations...

 

A stepped system might be a good idea. Make it so that you can move up a class with extra training or experience. So say I have a C license, I could move up to B olicense with a year's riding or by taking the MSF and/or a track school or something.

Of course you'd have a lot of variables to work out in terms of what skill level someone should be at to ride.

On the other hand rather than be more draconian with laws and regulations it might be easier to offer more MSF courses and push more rider training programs. Its an outright shame that if you wanted to get into the MSF today in my area you'd have to wait several months.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU R1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Its an outright shame that if you wanted to get into the MSF today in my area you'd have to wait several months.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And pay for it, and use up a weekend of your time to boot. A lot of people WANT to take it, but can't for these reasons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd like to make it more difficult, or perhaps even a stepped approach to getting licensing for different displacement bikes. However the system seems to work now... "let Darwin sort them out"

I am not sure displacement has a direct effect on other than it is MUCH easier to get into a bad situation when great cc's come into play. In addition, larger displacement motorcycles are usually physically larger, heavier bikes... hence harder to control. In California we have a stepped process for young drivers of automobiles... many rules apply to them that do not apply to the general public.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with Schu.

 

i think you have a good point of stepping up to bigger displacement bikes. the problem i see is alot of people ride illegally now, (without M class) because of the dificulties of passing the test.. making it harder may just perpetuate this

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd like to make it more difficult, or perhaps even a stepped approach to getting licensing for different displacement bikes. However the system seems to work now... "let Darwin sort them out"

I am not sure displacement has a direct effect on other than it is MUCH easier to get into a bad situation when great cc's come into play. In addition, larger displacement motorcycles are usually physically larger, heavier bikes... hence harder to control. In California we have a stepped process for young drivers of automobiles... many rules apply to them that do not apply to the general public.</TD></TR></TABLE>

+1

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chitownrida &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think you have a good point of stepping up to bigger displacement bikes. the problem i see is alot of people ride illegally now, (without M class) because of the dificulties of passing the test.. making it harder may just perpetuate this</TD></TR></TABLE>

It most definitely would.

 

I think the only hard thing that I hear most people complain about is the sharp U turn you have to perform which sportbikes have trouble with when taking the riding test for your M endorsement. A lot of people fail because of that.

I say modify that for sportbikes and you're set.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And pay for it, and use up a weekend of your time to boot. A lot of people WANT to take it, but can't for these reasons. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So I'm guessing you complain about colleges that are hard to get in too?

Making it harder to get your license would promote people riding without one but I think it should it be harder. Making it easier? It's not that hard to sign up for a class six months in advance and then pass the course.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">promote people riding without one</TD></TR></TABLE>


I am not sure blowback constitutes promotion, no matter how truthful the idea is. many "normal" riders Will take the time to go through a stepped state based program, why shouldn't an "Instant On" type personality be required to follow same

 

I think that riding a motorcycle proficiently is difficult enough.

Perhaps a tougher car licensing system should be considered. Any money with half a brain, an eye, and a foot seems to be able to get a license these days.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not sure blowback constitutes promotion, no matter how truthful the idea is. many "normal" riders Will take the time to go through a stepped state based program, why shouldn't an "Instant On" type personality be required to follow same</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you... a stepped program like other countries is ideal but I also think we should make the penalties harsher for riding without appropriate licensing. Out of 6 local riders around here (excluding myself) I know that at least 3 of them have violated permit/licensing law... and licenses are pretty easy to get as is.

 

So what are you going to make the penalty? The only thing that may keep people from riding without a licence is jail time. No amount of fines is going to stop them because they just wont pay the fines, go to court with a good lawyer and get out of whatever the punishment would be. Or they pay the fines and continue to ride because statistically you are more likely to not get a ticket than you are to get one. No to mention you can ride in areas where the cops arent. So without putting people in jail what else can you do?

I refuse to ride with people who dont have licences or registered bikes because their answer to everything is to run and Im not taking the fall for their bullsh!t. So I just dont ride with them.

BTW you wont get any 250 2 strokes because even though from a factory they are clean and quiet, as soon as you modify the exhaust system, which you will do; dont lie to me, the bike becomes a poluting loud pig. Which is why 2 strokers arent allowed on the street here anymore. The EU has literally put the kabosh on after market exhaust systems. They arent allowed to be sold unless they pass the EUs standards which are damn tough. If you are caught selling the exhausts, you can be seriously fined and your business taken away from you. We dont do that here in the US.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BDiddy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what are you going to make the penalty? The only thing that may keep people from riding without a licence is jail time. No amount of fines is going to stop them because they just wont pay the fines, go to court with a good lawyer and get out of whatever the punishment would be. Or they pay the fines and continue to ride because statistically you are more likely to not get a ticket than you are to get one. No to mention you can ride in areas where the cops arent. So without putting people in jail what else can you do? </TD></TR></TABLE>

What about points on their record? I know that there is a certain contingent that doesn't care about points or even having a regular driver's license but I think it would eliminate those who "just didn't get around to it" if they are in danger of losing their license or having high auto insurance rates due to points.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Making it harder to get your license would promote people riding without one but I think it should it be harder. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you think its an acceptable trade off then? Make it harder to get a license with the knowledge that it will only promote more riders out there to not get it. Seems counter productive.

 

There are plenty of JDM 250's and 400's in the four stroke ilk that can take the place of what we have now as far as entry level bikes, the main opposition being AMERICA is a big place, we need big bikes. capable of doing vast distances.

Although I imagine if they decided to bring in 400's you'd see a big increase in dedication and ownership in that displacement. One other factor is that a 400 might not be much cheaper than a 600... where is the motivation for manu's to make them. What would be needed is a dedicated/support race series that uses that displacement in order to create a base from which manufacturing can make it financially feasible... that is how the 750's solidified there place in the market... which is now disappearing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about points on their record? I know that there is a certain contingent that doesn't care about points or even having a regular driver's license but I think it would eliminate those who "just didn't get around to it" if they are in danger of losing their license or having high auto insurance rates due to points.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Points on your licence wont work because we have state to state licences. You can not get points on your licence in Rhode Island if you plead guilty and pay the full fine.

You get a drivers licence in European country, the DL is issued by that countries federal govt, not your local municipality. So unless you plan on turning over the DL to the Fed, points dont matter. And again, people will just drive with a suspended licence.

People in this country dont care. Take their licence away. Ill just drive without a licence. Raise their insurance rates. Ill just drive without insurance. They dont care. We think that driving is a right, and its not. Its a privilage. I lent my car to someone for a week only to have him arrested and my car impounded because he had a suspended licence and neglected to tell me. He had been driving like that for a year at least. This guy was supposed to be my friend. People just dont care in this country. They feel they should be able to do whatever they want whenever they want no penalties if they break the law. And its not just driving. Its drug trafficing, buying, dealing, imigration, speeding, pick something and there is a lawyer whose specialty is getting people out of the situation even though the person is clearly guilty.

I dotn worry so much about the guys who just didnt get around to it. Because those guys tend to be in their late 50s, 60s and 70s and started riding when there were no M class licences. Those guys arent the problem. Its the 22 yo with an R1 and no licence thats a problem. And like I said before, people, especially younger kids, dont care about the concequences because they will just ignore those as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are plenty of JDM 250's and 400's in the four stroke ilk that can take the place of what we have now as far as entry level bikes, the main opposition being AMERICA is a big place, we need big bikes. capable of doing vast distances.

Although I imagine if they decided to bring in 400's you'd see a big increase in dedication and ownership in that displacement. One other factor is that a 400 might not be much cheaper than a 600... where is the motivation for manu's to make them. What would be needed is a dedicated/support race series that uses that displacement in order to create a base from which manufacturing can make it financially feasible... that is how the 750's solidified there place in the market... which is now disappearing </TD></TR></TABLE>

i hope 750s come back for my sake. I dont want a gixxer oh and it should be harder to get a license. especially for liters

 

How about to take off a ******** every time they're caught? Third time = death.

 

Well sure, but what about women? They wanted equal rights you know. That means equal punishment

 

should be harder to get a license... one guy in my msf dropped his bike twice and the majority of people looked REALLY uncomfortable. there were maybe two of us that I would have passed, but instead everyone passed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> there were maybe two of us that I would have passed, but instead everyone passed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is plain scary. I can imagine as accidents mount, and investigations take place, MSF will be under pressure to stop this "Mass" technique.... I wonder if MSF is getting any pressure form MC manufacturers to pass as many as possible.