a couple weeks ago i put my stock h23 vtec on the dyno. completely stock h23 bottom end and completely stock h22 head (including intake manifold, tb, etc.). i ended up putting down 460whp/315tq on pump gas. it kicked a rod out on the next pass i really didn't want to make that much power on pump gas, but i have a shitty drag manifold and we couldn't get boost under 19 psi b/c of the shitty wg placement. it put down 430whp on the first pull running in the low 10's afr. i wanted to lean it out just a hair so it was about 11 flat afr, and that's when it kept picking up power and kicked a rod (every single piston, ring, bearing, everything was completely mint when we tore the motor down, except for the snapped rod). i had a spare h23 block at the machine shop for an all motor project i abandoned a while ago, so i picked that up and rebuilt it with stock USED pistons, rods, and new rings rings. i did use a balanced crank with the rebuild and acl bearings, so i'm sure some haters will say 'that doesn't count as stock'. went back to the dyno and tuned it to 410whp/300tq on pump gas. the put in some 114 and pulled 509whp/387tq out of it. i'm sure i could have tuned more power out of it even at the same boost level, but we weren't able to get any more clean runs after that due to ignition break up (very old cap and rotor). i replaced the cap and rotor after we left the dyno and everything was good to go. went out to the track and ran a best of 11.5 @ 128 with a 1.87 60' and short shifting 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th b/c i missed gears on my other runs and was kind of paranoid i was going to miss a gear again with more seat time in the car, i'm pretty sure i can get it in to the 10's, which isn't too bad for a stock motor and at least 2700lb without driver car. i'll post the dyno chart and timeslip later, i'm at work right now. pics.....

the ignition signal was weak due to my bad cap and rotor, but it actually didn't break up on this run, the pickup just didn't get a signal for a second
<FONT COLOR="green">*for those of you that wanted to see the dyno graph with rpm's, the paper was folded in half when i took the pic, it was late and i didn't even think about it. i photoshopped the rpm's on there real quick for you to see and get a better idea*</FONT>


as you can see by my traps and shitty short times, there's a lot of room for improvement with more seat time. neither one of these runs was clean. the first run, i missed 4th b/c the slicks were spinning over at the top of 3rd causing me to over rev and not want to go in to gear, the second run i short shifted to be more careful not to miss a gear and fell out of boost bad. also noticed i had a boost leak when i got back to the shop, my cc line had come off the im. i was more pissed that i didn't have cc for the ride home than i was knowing that i had a boost leak at the track



here's the set up.....

car:
-00 si, fully loaded, full interior, no weight reduction (other than no a/c, p/s), offset that by the extra weight of an h series and turbo kit, and i'm sure it's over stock weight
motor/turbo:
-completely stock h22 top end (im, tb, cams, etc.)
-arp head studs
-completely stock h23 bottom end (except for balanced crank and acl bearings)
-m2b4 lsd tranny
-tired *** clutch specialties 6 puck unsprung and 12lb flywheel
-gay *** drag manifold
-tial 38mm wg
-h.o. t3/t67
-precision 750hp intercooler
-2" ic piping from turbo, steps up to 2.5" then to 2.75" before the intercooler
-2.25" ic piping from ic to intake
-rc 1000cc injectors (all stock lines, fpr)
-crome pro tuned by me
-full race traction bars
-old *** agx shocks and generic coilovers

i think i can pick up A LOT of power just by doing simple things like getting a better manifold, bigger charge piping, better im, bigger tb, etc. i have a euro r im, and bdl 70mm tb, so i may redo my ic piping and throw that stuff on and see what i can put down. unfortunately everyone has a hell of a wait right now for a good manifold, so it may be a while before i upgrade that. oh yeah, i have a fully built/sleeved h22 set up pretty much ready to drop in also and was only looking for 700whp out of that. if i can hit over 500 on a stock motor, i know 700 won't be a problem now with the built motor


Modified by therealPROJEKTEG at 6:26 AM 7/25/2006


Modified by therealPROJEKTEG at 6:48 AM 7/26/2006

 

pics are up if anyone's interested

 

could u maybe post a pic that has the rpm's at the bottom?

 

the graph was actually folded in half when i took the pic. i'm revving it to 8500, the plot starts at 4500, so every line in between is 500 rpms. power is coming in so late b/c i'm using the shittiest manifold ever made, a drag i honestly think i'd be better off with an ssautocunt mani

 

so what did you have done to balance the bottom end? most would never dream of taking a h23 to 8500 ,

 

Very nice

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so what did you have done to balance the bottom end? most would never dream of taking a h23 to 8500 , </TD></TR></TABLE>

just had the crank balanced, that's it. 'most' people also say the stock h pistons are good for no more than 7 psi.

 

509 @19 psi?


drag manifold?

wow

bad ***

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chitownrida &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">509 @19 psi?


drag manifold?

wow

bad ***</TD></TR></TABLE>

na, 509 was on 22 psi. i put down 460 the other week on 19 psi

 

curve looks pretty linear
i wanna see a full tune on a better mani

 

How long have you been running this turbo setup? Is it your daily driver? I'd be concerned about blowing up the engine with that kinda power on a stock block.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94Vtecluder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How long have you been running this turbo setup? Is it your daily driver? I'd be concerned about blowing up the engine with that kinda power on a stock block.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it's a freshly rebuilt stock motor, i have put 500 miles on it so far and beat the **** out of it ever since the first mile i did snap a rod in another stock h23 bottom end about 2 weeks ago when i put down 460whp, but i was dumb for making that much power on a stock h with pum gas anyways. when i tore that motor apart, every single piston (including all ringlands), all rings, and every bearing were in perfect condition. that motor had over 160k miles on it, and i had it boosted with an sc61 on 14 psi for about 5k miles (never dyno'd it), then i put the t3/t67 on it and beat the hell out of it for another 2k miles. the first pull it put down 430whp, which is what i had been beating on it with pump gas. if i had left it there for pump, it would hav lasted god knows how long. for this new block, i have a pump gas tune that is 410whp, and the race gas tune at 509whp. i honestly think it will last a very long time. the tune is VERY conservative. the car is somewhat my daily driver. i don't drive it all day every day, but it gets raped at least once a day i'm not worried about it blowing, i hit my goal of wanting over 500whp out of a stock h, and being able to drive it off the dyno. also made it to the track the same night and got to drive it home. i have set another goal though, to get the stock block in to the 10's, so it's not coming out until then. the sooner it blows though, the sooner i get to put my built motor in.

 

are the stock pistons in a H23 different to the H22, i thought the stock pistons in the H22 had weak ring lands and were prone to failure when the engine is boosted, if your doing this on a stock H23 the piston must be stronger in one way or another

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pizzamanprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are the stock pistons in a H23 different to the H22, i thought the stock pistons in the H22 had weak ring lands and were prone to failure when the engine is boosted, if your doing this on a stock H23 the piston must be stronger in one way or another</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well you also have to factor in the compression of the H23 is a point or so lower than the H22 and is more apt for a turbo.

 

just seems like a nice alternative to resleeving, if you can swap your H22 head over to a H23 bottom end and have the capability of pushing 16 or 17 psi without fryin' rings on stock pistons

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pizzamanprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are the stock pistons in a H23 different to the H22, i thought the stock pistons in the H22 had weak ring lands and were prone to failure when the engine is boosted, if your doing this on a stock H23 the piston must be stronger in one way or another</TD></TR></TABLE>

why? people have put over 400whp on h22's as well, and one other stock h that i know of that has pushed over 500 (one fabs) same cast pistons as used in the h22. granted, the compression is almost a whole point lower with an h23 vtec with h23 pistons, but that has nothing to do with how much power they can 'handle', that just means they're less succeptable (sp?) to detonation at the same amount of boost, but also means you have to run more boost to equal the power you would get if you had higher compression. also, it's not a matter of 'psi', it's a matter of hp, and how effecient your turbo is. if you've got some little *** t3 and trying to push 15 psi on pump gas, that turbo is doing nothing but blowing hot air, which makes things 10 times worse. 15 psi from a huge turbo is safer than 15 psi from a tiny turbo, for the simple fact that the turbo is barely even working and not blowing hot air. stock blocks, huge turbo's, and conservative tunes...... it's the wave of the future

 

you've made my day, i had visions of having to resleeve my block and try and find forged pistons. if you've daily driven this thing and its not been hard on the rings then it may be a real alternative to resleeving, allthough the cost of a huge precision turbo might sting!

 

closed deck blocks are much stronger than open deck like the b/d and newer h motors. even if you're not comfortable trying to make that much power on a stock block. just get some mahle pistons, and forged rods. but yeah, nice turbo's aren't cheap, but they're worth it. i got the full race h.o. t3/t67, already looking to upgrade to the gt40 for my built block

 

hell yeah you're my kind of builder. build it cheap, have some fun, blow it up, repeat...

a good tune will hold anything together, well almost

 

i put up a new pic of the graph with the rpm's photshopped on there. it was late when i took the pic and didn't even think about not being able to see the rpm's due to the paper being folded in half

 

its ammazing to see your trq curve stay that flat for so long.. im not bashing by any means , but where you watching the boost gauge, those shitty drag mani's are well know for boost spiking

 

in all seriousness, i don't even have a boost gauge in my car. i'm gangsta yo!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by therealPROJEKTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
also, it's not a matter of 'psi', it's a matter of hp, and how effecient your turbo is. if you've got some little *** t3 and trying to push 15 psi on pump gas, that turbo is doing nothing but blowing hot air, which makes things 10 times worse. 15 psi from a huge turbo is safer than 15 psi from a tiny turbo, for the simple fact that the turbo is barely even working and not blowing hot air. stock blocks, huge turbo's, and conservative tunes...... it's the wave of the future </TD></TR></TABLE>

It appears that you are saying a small turbo at 15 psi just blows hot air where as a larger turbo at 15 psi does not blow hot air because it doesn't have to work as hard?
I think this statement could be easily misinterpreted and I think some of the users here that don't know much about FI might be a little confused by it. The smaller turbo will not flow enough air too keep up with the demand of the engine and though it will compress the air and heat it, it can not keep up the higher pressure in the combustion chamber due to it's lack of flow, it will also cool down of course, according to the ideal gas law(thus rendering minimal increase in power) With a larger turbo however, the same if not more heat is generated from compressing the air, but since the turbo is able to flow more air it is able to keep up with the demand of the engine and also has the ability to pressurize the air in the combustion chamber enabling it to give more power

 

yeah, i just didn't feel the need to go in to depth about why small turbo's become inneficient and are no good when trying to push big numbers, especially on stock blocks where intake and cylinder temps are much more crucial than on a built motor.

 

do you guys source your turbos by looking at turbo maps and relating them to what you want from your motor or by looking at what other ppl have done, i've looked at what other ppl have done and pretty much assumed they had done all the hard work. i.e. T3/T4's which are quite common on H22's on here.