READ EVERYTHING BEFORE POSTING A REPLY


First and foremost let it be known that I did not want it to come to this, and Rene was given fair warning that I was going public with the matter. Until this point and time I have thought nothing but highly of Rene, especially having know he just sold 100+ polos to a large percentage of the ITR forum. I have been extremely patient, more than understanding, but his time has run out. You all know me very well for the most part and know at no point in time would I want to hurt someone’s reputation and I apologize to Rene for having it come to this, but he left me with no choice.


Scenario: A local friend asked me if I would be interested in helping him find a set of ITR cams. I assured him I would have no problems doing so, and took it upon myself to begin searching for a set. After having posted in the WTB/FS forum I received a PM from Rene informing me that he had a set for sale. I asked him if he would do $300 shipped, which was the budget I was put on by my friend. I informed him that if he could not do the price that was fine and I would continue looking. Our corresponding began on Thursday July 6th, the same day in which I sent him $309 via paypal.

I even added the 3% without his request of it simply being kind. I asked him if he could have me the cams by the following Tuesday which he replied via PM with a thumbsup. So….at that point I was anticipating receiving them cams on Tuesday the 11th. Friday I asked him if he could please send me the tracking #. Saturday he informed me he would simply try and get them out. Sooo… the cams on Saturday had not been shipped yet, and I obviously I had no tracking #. Sooo…Monday arrives having sent him PMs all weekend requesting shipping information. He tells me Monday that the cams were sent back to him due to USPS having ripped my address label off by accident. He informed me the cams were resent the same day….Monday the 10th.

So at this point I informed my very patient friend that he would not be receiving his cams on Tuesday. Again I asked Rene for the tracking # of the packages, this time he informed me that he sent out 6 packages at the same time he sent the cams and wasn’t sure which one was mine. Sooo….again I have no idea when to expect delivery or even if the cams have been shipped. Thursday, July 13th rolls around. He sends me a PM stating that the cams are out for delivery. I received nothing that Thursday, and nothing on Friday. Monday the 17th arrives thinking surely they will arrive, I was wrong. It is now Wednesday evening, Rene has informed me that a tracking # he somehow made appear states that my cams were delivered on the 12th of July in San Antonio TX. Well… I LIVE IN PENNSYLVANIA. I have not heard from him all day, and the last thing he wrote me was unless he receives the cams back there is nothing he can do, and that I have all the same information he does. Did I forget to mention that he insured the cams to himself for $500. Hrmmmmmmm….yeah I am very frustrated this evening, and rightfully so.

I ask nothing more from you all here on HT than to speak up and tell this individual to give me my money back. I have bought and sold over 50 items on Honda-Tech never once having a problem as such. It’s a shame it finally had to happen with someone we all felt was so reliable and trustworthy. Below is the PM history I was able to get. Unfortunately I wasn’t prepared to make this post, so I do not have the PM history from July 6th to July 7th. So what I do have starts on the 8th of July, and goes clear up to today. Thank you all for reading this… please speak up and help me out here.


2:09 AM 7/8/2006) Rene M: I just got back i had to fly out for my company on a hot ticket job, I will do my best to ship Sat, sorry for the dely.
(9:52 PM 7/8/2006) Jon D: did they make it out today? I really need them by tuesday.
(4:18 PM 7/11/2006) Jon D: hey bro... sorry to hear about the Cone. Will keep mah fingers crossed for your buddy man.
On a second note, were the cams sent yet? I asked you to send me the tracking # but i never heard back from you.

(6:30 PM 7/11/2006) Rene M: Crap i thought i sent you the tracking #??
(3:40 PM 7/12/2006) Jon D: when were they sent?
(6:20 PM 7/12/2006) Jon D: Rene... hey i really need to know whats going on. My buddy who isn't familiar with honda-tech is getting scared and impatient with me. I have nothing to tell him and thats not comforting for either of us. Please let me know whats going on..... i don't feel i am asking too much.
(3:51 AM 7/13/2006) Rene M: The cams were sent out on Sat they came back Monday in a box that was ate by something? i took the trouble of jack *** proofing them so they were not hurt but your address was wiped out off the box, hell that part of the box was not even there any more. So i sent them back out monday with 6 other packages and i have no idea which tracking # is your " i guess i should of thought of that before i sent them", any way they are in a Pvc tube for protection and are should arive Thursday.
(12:30 PM 7/13/2006) Jon D: How were they sent? The reason i ask is that the motor is being reassembled at a shop and right now these cams are the only thing they are waiting on at this point. Do you know for sure they will be arriving today?
(6:44 AM 7/14/2006) Jon D: Rene....no cams yesterday man. I needed them tuesday and its now friday. I am only the middle man here, but told my friend he would have nothing to worry about as i have bought from you previously.
(10:35 AM 7/14/2006) Rene M: Look i see that your pissed but, You finally decided you wanted them on Friday and even if i could of read your mind and had them on me to ship Friday you would of not got them by Tuesday! I shipped them with out being paid for them, which i never do. The shipper destroyed the shipment luckily not the cams and i shipped them out the same day again.. I have no idea what else you want from me but if your that un happy just send them back and i will give you your $ back. I am not going to ship a set of $300 cams then pay out of my pocket for $60 overnight shipping because you decide late that you want them after all and need them in two days.
(4:12 PM 7/14/2006) Jon D: You inability or not choosing to keep me informed throughout this whole situation while still creating new posts is what has made me concerned this whole time. When i buy and sell with whomever whenever i ALWAYS stay in contact with the individual. There should have been no doubt that my money was guaranteed to show up after having already purchased those polos from you, not to mention my vouches on HT or the simply fact that i have helped plan several ITR EXPOs now. Whether or not the items were sent back to you i did inform you i wanted the cams on thursday of last week. I also sent the money the same day. I asked if you could ship them and have them to me by tuesday and you replied with a "thumbsup". After not having been given a tracking # that i asked for you simply said "did i not get that # to you?" . Then you told me you would try to get them out saturday. If you dont understand the pattern here its that i consistantly keep having to ASK whats going on and for information you haven't given me as any good seller does. Its now friday....i don't know if the cams have come in or not, but either way they have been needed since tuesday. Please put yourself in my shoes, having been given $300 of someone's money and have nothing new to tell them everytime they ask me "whats going on?". As stated before he isn't familiar with this site, but i assured him you were an excellent seller as i had dealt with you before. I NEVER expected you to overnight anything at an additional cost! All i wanted was an explanation of what was going on, and for the most part throughout this whole sale i have not. IMO i have done nothing wrong, only been a respectful friend, and extremely patient. Have a great weekend
(9:47 PM 7/14/2006) Rene M: No prob...
(7:35 PM 7/17/2006) Jon D: Rene.... i am very sorry to hear about the car, i wish that upon nobody and hope that insurance will take good care of you. As much as i even hate to bring it up at this time, i am still without the cams. I dont know what to do at this point. You have all the tracking numbers, could you please use them all and simply look at the destination of each. My can only be the one thats Shippensburg PA you sent out. Again...very sorry to hear about your situation. I just need to know when these cams will be arriving.
(10:35 PM 7/17/2006) Rene M: I made a call early on today to look for two boxs that went mia but your car say they are in your town now and should of been at your place today.
(11:56 PM 7/17/2006) Jon D: Who did you use to send them? UPS, FedEx? What address did you send them to? The address that i gave you was my brother's place of business and i send items there regularly. I called in as late as 7pm this evening to see if they had showed up and my brother said there was nothing.
(12:34 AM 7/18/2006) Rene M: USPS Priority mail with $500 of ins on them..
Damn it, i just had those tracking #'s on my desk at work ..
(11:47 PM 7/18/2006) Jon D: please give me some new information..... you've obviously seen my previous pm as you have just posted. Im sure you are sick of seeing pms from me pop up, but you keep prolonging a reply. What is going on?
(1:12 AM 7/19/2006) Rene M: There is no one thre at USPS to check with so here is the label and tracking #'s information.
When i talked to them on Monday they told me the package was all ready in your town, now i look it up and there is no information other than they received it.
The INS # is VG73563034US which is for the $500 of ins on the cams. They are sealed in a pvc tube to make sure they arrive in tact.

Search Results

Label/Receipt Number: 0306 0320 0002 8141 0200
Status: Acceptance

Your item was accepted at 12:38 pm on July 12, 2006 in SAN ANTONIO, TX 78284. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

(1:12 AM 7/19/2006) Rene M: http://trkcnfrm1.smi.usps.com/...iry.d
Where to get tracking info.
(6:28 AM 7/19/2006) Jon D: So the cams i purchased were accepted in San Antonio TX? Did you send the cams to one of the other 5 addresses you were shipping items to?
(7:49 AM 7/19/2006) Jon D: So just so that i have SOMETHING to tell my friend when he calls me today, again, what are you doing to fix the situation. The bottom line here is that if you can't send me the cams then i want the money refunded. If you know you the cams are lost and the chances of me recieving them are out the window please tell me that now, send me the money and i will begin looking for another set of cams. I need an answer of what you are doing by today. If this lack of communication continues i will be forced to take action. I have all the right to ask for the information i have and have been nothing but understanding. Please make a decision as to what you are doing.
(9:34 AM 7/19/2006) Rene M: The cams have been sent and unless they come back to me there is nothing i can do. You have all of the same information i have tracking #'s etc.
(11:24 AM 7/19/2006) Jon D: there is a lot you can do. You bought insurance, $500 worth. Which means you will refund me the money regardless of when and if you get your money back. I have paid and recieved nothing. If you don't know where the cams you sent me are that is your problem to resolve with the courier you chose to send them through. If the cams are lost let me officially ask for my money back. With paypal fees included to ensure that i didn't jip you of $9 i paid $309. I would like the same amount back. Thank You.
(5:06 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: It is 5pm here in PA right now. If i haven't heard from you by 8pm i am going public with all of this. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! This would have never happened to you if the roles were reversed. Fix this situation or i am going public.
(6:26 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: Just for the record, so that when people are reading this later.... you didn't tell me you were going on another trip, or that you wouldn't have access to a computer all day. So at this point i am assuming you are choosing not to respond to my pms. So... for those reading this, i gave three hours notice having not been informed previously that Rene was going to be unable to get to a computer. Its 6:25.... you have 1 hour and 35 minutes.
(7:34 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: Do what you feel you have to. Your cams have been shipped twice. Once they cam back in a busted up box the second was on the 12th. i have given you the same tracking # i have and even the ins information. You feel that this is not enough, then i suggest you do what you feel you need to to protect your self..
(7:39 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: if you are prepared for the outcome thats your choice!
(7:40 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: Your going to do what ever you need or want to do and there is not a thing i can do to stop you.
(7:40 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: Explain to my why you can't send me my money back?
(7:41 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: explain to me who is going to recieve $500 insurance money?
(7:42 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: Because if you receive the cams the the ins is useless. You recieved product and i am out 300 + a set of cams.
(7:42 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: explain to me how cams that were to be shipped to PA ended up signed for in San Antonio Texas, the same city you live in????
(7:43 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: So you don't trust me enough to tell you whether or not i have received the cams, you think i would keep your money. The only person whom thinks that way is the person doing the scammer.
(7:44 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: So do you honestly think that i have recieved these cams. They were signed for in TX Rene....please tell me how i have anything to do with that?
(7:44 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: You have no response bc you are well aware of what you are doing.
(7:45 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: Do what?
(7:46 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: How did cams with an address to PA get signed for in TX. No postal worker mistakes Pennsylvania for Texas.
(7:49 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: You had a responsibilty to appropriately address a package with my name on it, my address on it, put it in the hands of a shipping company, and see to it that the items made it to me safely. You have not done so, and owe me my money back.
(7:51 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: What is extremely bothersome is that you could care less!
(7:52 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: A good seller would set the situation right! This money isn't even mine, and you expect me to explain to my friend that he is simply out $300, while you have the right to claim a $500 insurance claim.
(7:54 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: hello?
(7:56 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: You have 5 minutes.
(7:59 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: I have no comformation that the cams are any where right now. They are not here and i can not use the tracking system to see where they are. I will go in the am to the main post office to find ut what the deal is. They are not here and you did not receive them i will refund you you $309 and when i get the settlement i will give you another $100 on top of it just because this situation is all jacked up. By noon Thursday you will either have cams or $.
(7:59 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: You have made your choice, as i have made mine!
(8:00 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: Ok..
(8:01 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: but you sent me a tracking # stating that they have been recieved on the 12th of July.
(8:01 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: Where did you even get that tracking # from?
(8:02 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: I dont want your $100.... i want cams or the money i paid!
(8:05 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: The USPS tracking # is on the rept right in front of me.
It reads..
Priority mail shippment to:
Shippensburg Pa
12lbs 4.8 oz
Dilivery comp#
03060320000281410200
Insurance amount
$500
# vg473563034us
(8:07 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: why weren't you able to supply me with this information DAYS AGO?
(8:12 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: Because this recept has been in my destroyed car that the dealer..
(8:20 PM 7/19/2006) Rene M: Funny that shipping information is the exact day date and time i shipped the package which means they received it on that day date and time.. Not that some one else did.
(8:29 PM 7/19/2006) Jon D: im lost... explain further please.
(7:32 AM 7/20/2006) Jon D: THIS IS JUST FOR THE RECORD BC RENE HAS SENT ME PM VIA ANOTHER NAME.

5iveLugEK (12:29 AM 7/20/2006): That is the day and time on the recept i have which must mean That:
Your item was accepted at 12:38 pm on July 12, 2006
is them saying they have the package not that it has arrived any where. That is the timeand day i shipped the cams, why they have not updated the tracking i do not know but i was told two days ago it was all ready in PA by one of their reps.

Jon D (7:28 AM 7/20/2006): Im guessing this is Rene? Why the sudden name change and change of avatar bro? That makes me even more cautious of all this. You keep telling me information that doesn't match up with what you have already told me though. July 12th is not July 10th when you told me the cams were to have been shipped with the 6 other packages. Then on thursday you told me the cams were in my town and should be there that day. Now from what i can make of the new information you are telling me that you never sent the cams until thursday of last week??????? I have informed the moderators on this forum of my situation. At noon today if i don't have $309 in my account i will be going public with alll of this. I gave you the benefit of the doubt last night when i should have burned you. I have dealt with you very professionally and deserve the same type of treatment in return. This is your last warning.

(12:11 PM 7/20/2006) Jon D: it is now 12pm eastern time, i will give you until 12 your time or 1pm my time to contact me to let me know whats going on. At 1pm my time today i post regarding the issue.


I was promised a refund or cams by noon today, well its 1pm eastern time!

 

damn, didnt read it all, but ive had problems shipping w/ ups before. at least 2 things ive shipped have come back to me at my home address about 2 weeks after shipment i dont know why either, the second time they seem to make it out fine

 

READ EVERYTHING BEFORE POSTING A REPLY!

 

I hope this gets resolved...scammers ruin buyer and seller confidence for all of us

 

This will get resolved, and i will get my money back. If it took making this post just to prove i meant business then so be it. I was extremely patient and even gave him an extra 16 hours to fix the situation. I had originally wanted to post this at 8pm last night, you will figure that out if you read the entire post.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">READ EVERYTHING BEFORE POSTING A REPLY! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ouch. That's all I can really say. I don't understand, even if the package is lost or whatever why the money cannot be returned. I went through a somewhat similar situation with 2 hoods that were shipped to me. I should have known not to ship hoods via UPS, but it was a good friend on here, and he even gave them to me for free, just pay for the shipping. The hoods arrived damaged and we went through the UPS claims issue. I was not going to blame the seller/giver as first they were free and second, I was only out $90 or so for shipping IIRC. Dealing with UPS sucks when **** like this happens. I understand it's USPS, but dealing with any of them when something goes wrong is a royal PITA.

Anyway, I think the seller should credit your paypal account, and should have done so days ago. If the Ins was for 500 (weird, seems like a profit deal to me, and that he wanted $500 to begin with, but made this deal because it was Jon D y0! ) I dunno. But regardless he's getting his money back and then some for the cams if the package is lost. The USPS is not a scammer and the money will be returned. (read above, UPS covered the shipping as the item was free and not insured )

I understand that Rene has gone through some serious **** in the past few days/weeks but if you could not complete your obligation as a seller, then why not refund the $$$ and not even ship them out?

 

AMEN Dave B! I hated making this post especially with regard to the fact that Rene just had the worst luck ever. This began before that incident though, and has nothing to do with it.

 

ive been scammed on here before as well, and it makes you sooooo angry. i hope this gets resolved and fast. this "deal" is between two popular names in this forum and it should spread quickly.

best of luck to you, and your paypal account should be credited

 

Thanks Jake... i appreciate your input.

 

Damn, hate to see this sort of thing. Jon D it pays to be very thorough, as you were.

Rene, whether you did it on purpose, you screwed up, or the shipping company screwed up, you owe Jon's friend his money back. You showed absolutely no organization whatsoever in backing up your claim that they were actually delivered to Jon. Not only that but you claimed they were accepted in San Antonion, how is that even remotely close to Jon's delivery address? The last tracking number you provided says it was accepted in San Antonio as well. None of the tracking numbers you provided says it was delivered to the address Jon gave you. Pay up!

"pay that man he's money"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your item was accepted at 12:38 pm on July 12, 2006 </TD></TR></TABLE>

Honestly Jon, the item is probably (still) in route to you - this is the USPS.

I believe Rene would have to wait 30 days from date of shipment before he could even file a claim for loss - I'm not positive but I think that's the USPS policy.

From reading your entire post, it seems like he waited 4 business days from receipt of money (7/6) to send your stuff, which is still reasonable. Given the run of bad luck he has had, I would be inclined to cut him some slack.

Just my $.02

 

Kengs... you are missing his extreme lack of communication and contradiction of comments he continued to make. Any good seller does none of the things that has happened in the past two weeks.

Keep in mind he agreed to send me the cams without having recieved the money bc my friend needed them to get a car back up and running. If he couldn't deliver he should have never agreed.

Also... if USPS screwed up once, why didn't he take precautions to ensure the 2nd shippment. Also... when you ship something via USPS, they ask you how you would like it shipped and exactly how many days it will take to get there. There is no way that even the cheapest slowest form would take 14 days.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kengs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Honestly Jon, the item is probably (still) in route to you - this is the USPS.

I believe Rene would have to wait 30 days from date of shipment before he could even file a claim for loss - I'm not positive but I think that's the USPS policy.

From reading your entire post, it seems like he waited 4 business days from receipt of money (7/6) to send your stuff, which is still reasonable. Given the run of bad luck he has had, I would be inclined to cut him some slack.

Just my $.02</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is true as well.

I think Im more confused than anything with all the tracking numbers and dates. If Kengs post is the "latest" attempt to ship the package, it could definitely still be in transit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kengs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly Jon, the item is probably (still) in route to you - this is the USPS.

I believe Rene would have to wait 30 days from date of shipment before he could even file a claim for loss - I'm not positive but I think that's the USPS policy.

From reading your entire post, it seems like he waited 4 business days from receipt of money (7/6) to send your stuff, which is still reasonable. Given the run of bad luck he has had, I would be inclined to cut him some slack.

Just my $.02</TD></TR></TABLE>


I'm in agreement..... sounds like the shipping company is tarded.

What is Rene's side of the story?

 

Two scammer posts in one day...

IMO: If the cams have been lost in the shipping process then Rene should refund your money ASAP and take up the insurance claim with USPS to recover the money he has lost. On a side note I have spoke with Rene on multiple occasions and always thought he was an upstanding member of our community. I don’t believe he intended to scam you however, I do believe he is guilty of being pretty disorganized. I hope everything can be resolved in a timely manor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What is Rene's side of the story?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yeah... id like to hear it as well. PLEASE chime in Rene.

 

this doesn't look good, bump for an answer

 

C.O.D. next time

Rene - shame on you. Bad karma coming your way

 

Karma is a BITCH




Modified by Trellis at 3:25 PM 7/20/2006

 

Guys please... i want to be as mature and professional about this as possible. What happened to him i wish upon nobody. I simply want to be treated fairly. I made this post to show him i am tired of messing around, and that he has the ability to clear his name if he so desires. Until i get a set of cams or my money back though this situation is unresolved.

 

Trellis, that's not even funny. That would suck if that happened to anyone. Let's keep this mature and professional.

&lt;---awaiting Rene's reply.

 

If he provided some clear information then none of this would be happening.

All you need to know is the correct/latest tracking information. You can determine everything else based on that.

 

The karma stuff is really uncalled for.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kengs... you are missing his extreme lack of communication and contradiction of comments he continued to make. Any good seller does none of the things that has happened in the past two weeks.

Keep in mind he agreed to send me the cams without having recieved the money bc my friend needed them to get a car back up and running. If he couldn't deliver he should have never agreed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know Rene on a personal level, but just looking at this objectively, I would say it was irresponsible for him to promise you the cams by 7/XX if he couldn't come through - but if he sent the cams to you on 7/12 like the tracking no. indicates, then it is TOO early to brand him as a scammer.

Now if you don't receive the cams and Rene has to file a loss claim, then he should refund your money while he waits to get reimbursed by the USPS. Let's hope you don't have to go that route.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All you need to know is the correct/latest tracking information. You can determine everything else based on that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well that's the problem with the USPS. They don't give you realtime tracking with their parcels like UPS or Fedex.

 

I feel your pain, Jon. It's a difficult balance regarding the whole "patience" thing. I had a similar experience with somebody recently, but they weren't on this forum (ITR). I do tend to trust folks on the ITR forum more than others, but this proves that may not even be the best practice

Honestly though, up until my recent hardship, I had NEVER encountered a problem on Honda-Tech with a transaction. It seems like the professionalism and communication amongst sellers/buyers has indeed slipped

Hope the issue gets resolved quickly.