I'm not sure how the harness buckles mount on the front.

I am not an expert so any insight is appreciated. Also, if you can explain how the angles are safe/unsafe, and how that affects the body in a crash, etc. I remember reading about the physics and the distribution of stress/force through the harnesses in a GRM issue a few years ago but totally forgot what is the right/wrong way to mount the harness straps.

No flames please.

 

That's pretty creative.

edit (so I don't look like a complete *******):
http://www.sparcousa.com/resourceFiles/16.pdf From sparco's web page.

The end attachments of the shoulder harness must also be installed at appropriate angles. The ideal position is anywhere between 5° below and 30° above the driver's shoulder, as seen in part C of the Figure.

If the upper attachment point falls significantly below the driver's shoulder, then a spinal compression injury is likely to occur. In an accident situation, the shoulder belts pull down and back on the torso as they resist the forward motion of the driver. The resultant restraint force compresses the spinal column and will add to the stresses in the spine already caused by the force of the crash impact.

On the other hand, if the trailing ends of the harness are too far above the shoulder (greater than 30°), then two problems can occur. First, tension in the shoulder harness is increased and undue stress is applied to the harness and its structural attachments.

Second, excessive angle will cause excessive motion. If the harness belts are too far above the shoulder, they will provide little resistance to forward motion of the driver's upper torso. The result is impact with the steering wheel and the possibility of neck injury. The shoulder straps should also be 3-6" apart behind the driver's neck to prevent slippage off the shoulders.


Modified by RacerZook at 2:07 AM 7/10/2006


Modified by RacerZook at 2:08 AM 7/10/2006

 

that is quite scary looking, not sure why you did it that way?

move the one mounted to the strut bar thing down to the bolt hole near the rear seat belt buckle, that would be less bad

i assume this setup is for autox use or somthing since you retained the stock belts? id say it would be fine if that is the intended purpose, but that setup is DEFFINITLEY less than ideal, although im sure you know this.

 

It's my cousin's car and I wasn't sure how safe that setup is.

 

i'd move the left belt from the low mounting point to the same mounting point as the right one, if anything.

 

Do you know what kind of belts those are? The webbing looks like an OEM belt, just a different color.

 

Forget about the mounting points lol, does it have a crotch belt? Why buy a 2" when you can get a 3" for the same price or cheaper


Those belts aren't safe buy a 5 or 6 point.

 

I would choose the OEM belt to this thing.

 

Hey Reg-

Autopower Rollbar and a 6 point- solved.

Since it doesn't look like he's using the back seat anymore, could he just throw a bar in it?

Also, autopower Roll bars let you keep the stock seatbelts in the front, your headlining, other plastic pieces- although you will have to cut holes in the rear plastic panels covering the shock towers. (from what I remember with my DC2 and Lee's CRX).

As for your original question, I have no idea if its safe but I wouldnt feel comfortable in it. I would find a way to stick to the stock belt, although I know the stock belt gets all wacky with that type of drivers seat, and probably wouldn't be positioned properly on his body.

Using my stock seatbelt in my Integ witha Sparco Sprint was awkward, and probably not recommended?

 

Totally rigged. The stock seat belt will be much safer than that blue thing, the way it is mounted now. I'm a road racer, so I'm not sure how you autocross guys do the 5 or 6 point belts. We are dealing with a ton more g's than you, but even a 35 mph crash can put 80 g's of force on you in a head on hit. Looking at the angle of the belt going over to the mount at the window, my guess is that this would be the only belt to stretch tight. The other one is longer and would do next to nothing (more belt stretch and it's hanging more loosly). So, if all the force is being taken up by the upper belt, when it pulls forward, it will actually be pulling sideways on your neck and the seat. It could break your neck or right shoulder.

You want the upper belts to be about the same length, mounted 3 to 6" apart so they go straight through the holes in the back of the seat. Plus, they should be at least at your shoulder height and preferrable slightly below the shoulders. Actually, that stut bar mounted across the back seat is almost the right height to mount the belts to, just not sturdy enough. I have a Sparco seat that looks similar to yours and my belts go through the seat holes and wrap around the roll bar right behind it.

Don't drive that car with the belts that way. It's not safe. Plus, it looks hoopty. It's gotta at least look cool if your willing to risk you life using it.

I kinda find it funny too that there is so much crap in your car. Screw the belts, if you crash, you'll need to worry more about the flying muffler, book bag and that 2 liter of Vernors ready to explode at your hip.

 

I might wear it at an auto-x just to hold me in the seat.

Not on the street. Not on track.

 

I have the shoulder straps of my harness mounted to the spare tire's bolt hole. Is it bad to mount the shoulder straps to the bolt hole for the spare tire if the harness is going to be used for auto-x? I wear the stock seat belts for the street.

 

Well, if you hit anything solid during your auto-x, you're probably coming out of the harness.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, if you hit anything solid during your auto-x, you're probably coming out of the harness.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why do you say this?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, if you hit anything solid during your auto-x, you're probably coming out of the harness.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And what solid object are you going to hit at an autocross?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtbprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And what solid object are you going to hit at an autocross? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I've witnessed such an accident, it does happen.

In any case, I would rather be in the stock belts than those. Especially without any form of rollover protection. Safety &gt; *

 

not safe at all .......just used the stock seat belt.... it still hanging right there for you........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .1type. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

not safe at all .......just used the stock seat belt.... it still hanging right there for you........ </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have to ask... why do you seem to have yours routed the same way?

 

^^ But thats the JDM tyte way to do it!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PerformanceFirst &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have to ask... why do you seem to have yours routed the same way?

</TD></TR></TABLE>




did i miss something there........ how is that the same?????

 

You have them crossed and mounted low.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PerformanceFirst &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have them crossed and mounted low.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PerformanceFirst &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the RIGHT way to mount the rear 2 point from a 4+point harness. the rear SHOULD either mount on A) back seat harness's bolt spot. or B)on a roll cage which have a B piller bar.

if its the thin type harness. (those cheaper version with a quick release on the back, pick the more center spot.)

 

My mistake. However, the Sparco guide linked above says you shouldn't have the harnesses angle downward more than 5 degrees. It also says to keep the shoulder straps 6" apart to keep them on your shoulders. I'm no expert though. And I guess it would be fine for autocrossing either way?

 

Without seeing the whole installation and just going by the way the shoulder straps are mounted in the pictures, I would have to say no, neither harness set is safe. Since only the shoulder straps are questioned, I'll just answer that.

The shoulder straps ideally should be perpendicular to the spine. If that's not possible, they should be no lower than a 5 degree angle down off the shoulders or more than a 30 degree angle up off the shoulders. Any more than a 5 degree angle down and you rish spinal compression. If more than a 30 degree angle up and the shoulder straps will not restrain you in an accident. For mounting, the runs should be kept as short as possible to minimize stretch and not mounted more than 4 inches apart measured at the inside edges of each strap. If you have an SCCA legal roll bar or cage, the shoulder straps will typically be wrapped around the cross brace/harness bar. If no roll bar/cage, you need something like a harness bar to get the correct angles. I couldn't really tell but the one in the first set of pictures looked too high for this purpose. Maybe the harness bar can be mounted upside down (right side up???). I'm not sure about the strength of the bar but some manufacturers say the shoulder straps can be mounted directly to it but you would have to check with the manufacturer of your bar. Most harness bars are used to just run the straps over (for the correct angle) and then down to the chassis.

As far as mounting these to the chassis, mount them as straight back as possible (so not to give on one side more than the other) in a solid part of the chassis and use a seat belt backing plate.

Howard Bennett
Hans Performance
ex-Racer Wholesale