This post contains both a rant and a series of questions, broken into paragraphs... please forward ahead if someone complaining isnt your thing.

Setup on 2006 RSX-S:
Eibach Pro-Kit
Hotchkis Sport swaybars (25mm front and rear)
Spherical bearing endlinks

1. Rant- Just got back from a track event at Thunderhill raceway learning all I could of line, speeds, throttle control, when to brake, turning late, etc and had a great time (my instructor was HUGELY HUGELY helpful). As the day went on I got faster and faster, turns came more quickly, and weight transfer became a larger part of my worries. Shear complaining--> the amount of 'slosh' while making a corner was inbearable while getting faster and faster. Upon making any turn under anything more than a warmup and car would lean (upon photo inspection up to about 20-25 degress). It really feels like Im riding a loose truck (not a stock truck, a loose truck). After the track day I began thinking of what lead me to buying this suspension setup and the possibilities I have...

2. Thoughts and your suggestions- My thought are that the stock struts are just not valved (at all) for a lowered suspension and much less valved for a race event... BUT I would like to hear other peoples thought upon the matter for I hope I will never make another car this bad. Now please, advise me...

Rich

Addtional questions:
Should I put the 26.5mm stock front swaybar on, and leave the rear 25mm?

I know this will get into the discussion of coilovers (ie. Buddyclub, Tein, etc), BUT please explain your thoughts in an easy to understand manner. Thank you again.

 

Yep the stock strut/shocks are just not designed for such a hardcore event. They are ok if you leave them alone but once you touch the springs it's best to put a strut with a quicker rebound rate.
My advice is if you are on a budget is to get a set of Tokico's or Ground Controls - they are pretty decent for their price.

If you want to get something more suitable for the track then you can purchase a set of coilovers or something. Just try to get it new as used suspension, a lot of times, has dirt and junk stuck in the adjusting area which makes it difficult to adjust your ride height. The stiffer the setup the less comfort you will have for daily driving. So keep that in mind when you decide on spring rates. Megan coilovers are pretty decent for their price and the quality is nice too. But in suspension, you pay for what you get -- just like any other car part.

My opinion is to do decide whether or not you want a hardcore track setup or something suitable for both DD and tracking. Then we can suggest options.

Also, I was wondering what type of tires do you have. If they are stock then that would be awful in a track situation.

 

Thanks already Kal... and yes the tires are Goodyear F1's, so they are doing well.

Right now, after doing an hour research into coilovers (once thought overrated) now appear to be my only real option. Replacement struts would be alright, but from the reading I have done a good $1500 will do me well.

On my previous WRX I had replacement AGX's and fell in love with adjustability. BUT what I want to know before any of that is decided upon is will a set of coilovers will satisfy the 'slosh' (roll) I'm getting?

Rich

 

get the struts first. i don't like sleeve coilovers on a macpherson strut suspension, the articulation needed in the front doesn't play well with those. those springs are overpowering the shocks. stiffer springs will help but at the cost of daily driveability. i think that front sway bar is a bit large. i like the agx on my other car, but not so much on the si. i would recommend the koni yellows.

keep in mind that this is still a street car. no matter what you're going to do the suspension, you're going to run out of talent before you run out of car.

throwing money at the perceived problem won't fix it. this isn't a criticism, just wisdom gained from over 10 years of HPDE, racing, and autocross.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kung fu grip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">keep in mind that this is still a street car. no matter what you're going to do the suspension, you're going to run out of talent before you run out of car.

throwing money at the perceived problem won't fix it. this isn't a criticism, just wisdom gained from over 10 years of HPDE, racing, and autocross.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you full-heartedly and the more practice I get the better I will become (with an experienced instructor). The main point of this is just to ask if a coilover with adjustable comp and rebound would be a solution to my complaining...

Rich

 

i love my FULL eibach pro kit, sways dampers and springs, i also went for BUSHINGS they help immensly.

hope that helps.

i feel like im on rails, nice and tight

 

You don't need expensive coilovers, you just need some shocks. Lowering springs on stock shocks = bad. This should be common knowledge by now.

KYB AGX, Koni Yellow or Tokico Illumina will all work well with your Eibachs. Just stay away from Tokico "Blues", they've got about as much damping ability as 10 year old used stock units.

 

koni yellows

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree with you full-heartedly and the more practice I get the better I will become (with an experienced instructor). The main point of this is just to ask if a coilover with adjustable comp and rebound would be a solution to my complaining...

Rich</TD></TR></TABLE>


in short, yes, it would help. something that coilovers will allow you to do is to corner balance the car to an extent.


i want to throw out the caveat that with more adjustment, there is a possibility of you not focusing on the technique as much as you might. honestly, i think a set of konis under those eibachs will allow you to grow as a driver so that if and when you decide to upgrade to a real coilover, you will be able to use them. i have seen far greater drivers in mediochre cars destroy mediochre drivers in excellent cars.

some cars are less balanced than others. FWD cars particularly. i had modified a FWD chasis for track and hpde. i spent close to $2.5k to work out the handling. after this and much chasis tuning, i was still faster at the same track in my (then) stock miata than that car, despite a hp difference of 40-50hp. i won't even mention how uncomfortab'e that fwd car was on the street after the tweeking. i'm not saying go buy a miata, but chasis dynamics and tuning are tricky propositions that sometimes leave you chasing your tail, literally and figuratively. sometimes you need to stick with what you have and keep tuning yourself, not the car. i think you're already aware of that. good luck!


Modified by kung fu grip at 8:34 AM 6/21/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kung fu grip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i want to throw out the caveat that with more adjustment, there is a possibility of you not focusing on the technique as much as you might. honestly, i think a set of konis under those eibachs will allow you to grow as a driver so that if and when you decide to upgrade to a real coilover, you will be able to use them. i have seen far greater drivers in mediochre cars destroy mediochre drivers in excellent cars.

some cars are less balanced than others. FWD cars particularly. i had modified a FWD chasis for track and hpde. i spent close to $2.5k to work out the handling. after this and much chasis tuning, i was still faster at the same track in my (then) stock miata than that car, despite a hp difference of 40-50hp. i won't even mention how uncomfortab'e that fwd car was on the street after the tweeking. i'm not saying go buy a miata, but chasis dynamics and tuning are tricky propositions that sometimes leave you chasing your tail, literally and figuratively. sometimes you need to stick with what you have and keep tuning yourself, not the car. i think you're already aware of that. good luck!


Modified by kung fu grip at 8:34 AM 6/21/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

Many thanks to everyone who has given me advice as of now, and a lot to Kung Fu Grip for some honest/inspiring words.

As I have been doing research about all of this on here and ClubRSX I can say now I have a better understanding of what needs to be changes... mainly myself. My full hearted thanks to everyone and willingness to share what they have learned. THANKS AGAIN!

Rich

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jamez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You don't need expensive coilovers, you just need some shocks. Lowering springs on stock shocks = bad. This should be common knowledge by now.

KYB AGX, Koni Yellow or Tokico Illumina will all work well with your Eibachs. Just stay away from Tokico "Blues", they've got about as much damping ability as 10 year old used stock units.</TD></TR></TABLE>

X2. General consensus on clubRSX is that shocks + springs are all you really need in terms of suspension. Take that for what it's worth - cRSX has a pretty large proportion of ricers, though there are also a fair number of autoxers who know what they're talking about.

Most people swear by Koni Yellows + Eibachs or Koni Yellows + Tein S-techs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kung fu grip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in short, yes, it would help. something that coilovers will allow you to do is to corner balance the car to an extent.


i want to throw out the caveat that with more adjustment, there is a possibility of you not focusing on the technique as much as you might. honestly, i think a set of konis under those eibachs will allow you to grow as a driver so that if and when you decide to upgrade to a real coilover, you will be able to use them. i have seen far greater drivers in mediochre cars destroy mediochre drivers in excellent cars.

some cars are less balanced than others. FWD cars particularly. i had modified a FWD chasis for track and hpde. i spent close to $2.5k to work out the handling. after this and much chasis tuning, i was still faster at the same track in my (then) stock miata than that car, despite a hp difference of 40-50hp. i won't even mention how uncomfortab'e that fwd car was on the street after the tweeking. i'm not saying go buy a miata, but chasis dynamics and tuning are tricky propositions that sometimes leave you chasing your tail, literally and figuratively. sometimes you need to stick with what you have and keep tuning yourself, not the car. i think you're already aware of that. good luck!


Modified by kung fu grip at 8:34 AM 6/21/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

This man knows what he's talking about.

 

the racing vets are going to tell you to go with custom valved koni yellows with ground controls for your preference. Tokico HP's with some eibach springs would be a nice upgrade to get rid of some of the slosh if you're on a budget ( The koni's will be a fair bid above $1k dollars versus about 550-600 for brand new tokico's and eibach springs). Good luck