very nice.... I'm sure all the sohc members will love this.

 

all hail the pie cut bends! too sick bro

 

Why doesn't anyone ever psot pictures of the internal shots of their welds?

 

Because most don't/can't make a proper root pass on pipe. Some will admit it and justify it by "not needing" full penetration on thick stuff, others won't mention it or just lie about it.

This response is not directed towards the OP. Manifold/downpipe look good man . And I'm sure I'm answering question Dave knows the answer to already. I guess this reply was useless . It's alright though, I need to get my post count up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why doesn't anyone ever psot pictures of the internal shots of their welds?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cause most don't backpurge stainless.

To the OP, the setup looks good...Any specs on that turbo? Haven't seen many Schwitzers on Hondas.

 

Could have posted pics of the inside of the welds but thats not really the point of what was being shown here. Just posting pics of the setup in itself.

Turbo specs: 56mm, 55lb/min, .76AR turbine. Did 552whp/439trq on a GSR @ 30psi in testing before and it was maxed out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why doesn't anyone ever psot pictures of the internal shots of their welds?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k24em2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cause most don't backpurge stainless.</TD></TR></TABLE>

even though i dont weld all that much i know that is why. also the whole penetration.

Nice job on the manifold OP. Seems like turbo d's are the hot thing this year. i see more and more about d's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PSI2HI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could have posted pics of the inside of the welds but thats not really the point of what was being shown here. Just posting pics of the setup in itself.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now I don't know how yours was welded, but the general point I'm trying to make is that everyone loves to look at the outside of a manifold be it NA or FI, but what good is it if it only lasts a few months? The majority of the stuff I see on this board isn't back purged, but most don't know how important it is, especially for stainless.

 

If you dont mind me asking how do you backpurge something like a manifold? especially if it's on a jig?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now I don't know how yours was welded, but the general point I'm trying to make is that everyone loves to look at the outside of a manifold be it NA or FI, but what good is it if it only lasts a few months? The majority of the stuff I see on this board isn't back purged, but most don't know how important it is, especially for stainless.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Backpurging ~1/8" material when you are only charging a few hundred bucks is retarded. Most people don't need their turbo manifold to last 60 years. If they did, they should also brace the turbo to remove most of the load from the manifold. As far as I'm concerned, back purging in the honda world is just a gimick to say "OMG, I'm a better welder than you." Anyone can shove argon in some piping and get full penetration. It comes down to the fact that most customers don't care enough to pay for it and since they don't want to pay the extra money, they don't get the extra quality. Its not that hard to figure out. Drop the high and mighty ruitine. It has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with money.

 

clean clean..nice pie cuts..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboSI56 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you dont mind me asking how do you backpurge something like a manifold? especially if it's on a jig?</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Backpurging ~1/8" material when you are only charging a few hundred bucks is retarded. Most people don't need their turbo manifold to last 60 years. If they did, they should also brace the turbo to remove most of the load from the manifold. As far as I'm concerned, back purging in the honda world is just a gimick to say "OMG, I'm a better welder than you." Anyone can shove argon in some piping and get full penetration. It comes down to the fact that most customers don't care enough to pay for it and since they don't want to pay the extra money, they don't get the extra quality. Its not that hard to figure out. Drop the high and mighty ruitine. It has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with money.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahh, that DP isn't 1/8" wall.

It isn't a high and mighty routine. It's call educating people on how things are to be done correctly.

Damn, with your mentality, why do a final hone on the cylinder walls, why adjust valve lash if it's within .005", why spend the extra time and money to have bearings clearances checked. So yeh, you are right, why spend a little extra on a properly fabricated manifold if you've already spent $4k-$6k on the engine and $2k-$3k on your turbo system? BTW, I'm not trying to sell turbo manifolds you won't find them on my website.

 

Pie cuts on the dp look sick and the mani is unreal!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ahh, that DP isn't 1/8" wall.

It isn't a high and mighty routine. It's call educating people on how things are to be done correctly.

Damn, with your mentality, why do a final hone on the cylinder walls, why adjust valve lash if it's within .005", why spend the extra time and money to have bearings clearances checked. So yeh, you are right, why spend a little extra on a properly fabricated manifold if you've already spent $4k-$6k on the engine and $2k-$3k on your turbo system? BTW, I'm not trying to sell turbo manifolds you won't find them on my website. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You do those things on an engine because they will cause failure and end up costing you a lot more money in the end. A cracked downpipe will cost you $20 to repair. In a perfect world, everything would be backpurged, fit perfectly, and it would all be done for free. This isn't a perfect world. The fact of the matter is, people on honda-tech are generally trying to make their car go fast for not too much money. Spending an extra $50-100 on backpurging all the parts may not be in the cards, especially when you can get away with not backpurging the products and still have great sucess. When you are investing a lot of money in your setup, you may want to spend the extra money, but a lot of people don't care if its not the best quality as long as it works and doesn't fail. Like I said, most people don't have interest in having their manifold and downpipe lasting 60 years. As long as its failure free while they own the car/parts I doubt they care what happens after that point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You do those things on an engine because they will cause failure and end up costing you a lot more money in the end. A cracked downpipe will cost you $20 to repair. In a perfect world, everything would be backpurged, fit perfectly, and it would all be done for free. This isn't a perfect world. The fact of the matter is, people on honda-tech are generally trying to make their car go fast for not too much money. Spending an extra $50-100 on backpurging all the parts may not be in the cards, especially when you can get away with not backpurging the products and still have great sucess. When you are investing a lot of money in your setup, you may want to spend the extra money, but a lot of people don't care if its not the best quality as long as it works and doesn't fail. Like I said, most people don't have interest in having their manifold and downpipe lasting 60 years. As long as its failure free while they own the car/parts I doubt they care what happens after that point.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah I'm not gonna start something.


Just shut up already.

Backpurging is the RIGHT way to weld stainless.

No one cares if you want to buy something that is crappy. Plenty of people will sell it to you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I4sillypwr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Backpurging is the RIGHT way to weld stainless.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Do you put on your wheels with a torque wrench too?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I4sillypwr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I'm not gonna start something.
Just shut up already.
Backpurging is the RIGHT way to weld stainless.
No one cares if you want to buy something that is crappy. Plenty of people will sell it to you. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You aren't reading what I'm typing. Right or wrong doesn't matter to most. What matters is price and will it work. If his customers don't want to spend the extra money, he is supposed to eat it and do it anyway? Or is he just supposed to price himself out of the market because, "backpurging is the right way to weld stainless"? Seriously, lets be realistic here. Not everyone wants to spend the money to backpurge. Once you increase your prices to cover your extra cost and time, now you are competing with other manifold makers that are more well known. Then you run into the problem of "Why buy brand X when brand Y is only $50 more." So you've turned a business that could have been successful into a failure simply because you were not meeting the needs of the customer.

Just to be clear, backpurging stainless = the right way to do things. Would it be a good idea to use solar flux or something to save some money on the thinner material? Sure. But if back purging means he will start making less money when his product is already built in a manner where his failure rate is very low, whats the point? There is a reason why manufacturers offer various products for various people. Only offering top end products can make running a business very difficult. Especially when you are talking about turbo parts for Honda Civics that probably are worth all of $5000 or less.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kookz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you put on your wheels with a torque wrench too?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You aren't reading what I'm typing. Right or wrong doesn't matter to most. What matters is price and will it work. If his customers don't want to spend the extra money, he is supposed to eat it and do it anyway? Or is he just supposed to price himself out of the market because, "backpurging is the right way to weld stainless"? Seriously, lets be realistic here. Not everyone wants to spend the money to backpurge. Once you increase your prices to cover your extra cost and time, now you are competing with other manifold makers that are more well known. Then you run into the problem of "Why buy brand X when brand Y is only $50 more." So you've turned a business that could have been successful into a failure simply because you were not meeting the needs of the customer.

Just to be clear, backpurging stainless = the right way to do things. Would it be a good idea to use solar flux or something to save some money on the thinner material? Sure. But if back purging means he will start making less money when his product is already built in a manner where his failure rate is very low, whats the point? There is a reason why manufacturers offer various products for various people. Only offering top end products can make running a business very difficult. Especially when you are talking about turbo parts for Honda Civics that probably are worth all of $5000 or less.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are assuming that one single company is trying to provide service to every single customer at every single level of the market. No one in their right mind is going to start a manifold building business and start their price listings like this.

Really good Log manifold ~$350

good log manifold ~$250

Non purged single pass log manifold ~$185

Migged mild steel log manifold ~$125

Send me $75 and I'll tell you how to build a log manifold out of rusty pipe scavenged from a swing set and your stock cast flange with a HF 100 amp stick welder.

If people want to just get by thats fine. No one ******* cares. I've built **** just to get by on my own stuff but I would never knowingly sell an inferior product to someone else.

(btw I don't sell manifolds. I build stairs.I dont ever intend to build manifolds except for the occasional buddy in need)


Purging stainless is right like torquing your goddamn head studs in order and to the proper ft-lbs is right.

 

back on topic here, to the OP, you DO know that d series downpipe is never going to fit in a car right? that thing looks like its gonna sit right where the radiator is

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It isn't a high and mighty routine. It's call educating people on how things are to be done correctly. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's my way of doing things -

If it's a stainless turbo manifold, I'll backpurge it. You don't want any carbide precipitation (sugar as some call it) heating up, melting off and going through the turbo.

If it's a stainless exhaust, after the turbo, it's up to me and the customer. If they're somewhat on a budget and don't feel like spending the $100 for an extra tank of argon for me to use then I'll just use solar flux. You can still get 100% penetration with solar flux and not have carbide precipitation. It might not look as pretty from the inside but it works.

Here's a dumptube I solarfluxed -


Now as far as strength goes with backpurging versus solar flux, I have no clue. Obviously, if backpurging and welding is done properly you'll have a nice looking bead on both sides of the weld, yielding slightly more than 100% penetration. With solar flux, the weld does not go beyond the solar flux, so you have to make sure the joint are cleaned off thoroughly before welding. I can tell you that I haven't had any problems with any exhaust I've ever made cracking or failing in any way (knock on keyboard ).

And the top mount looks good.


Modified by backpurge at 5:15 PM 6/9/2006

 

Backpurge makes a good point.

Solar flux is pretty mint in certain situations.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I Have an STD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">back on topic here, to the OP, you DO know that d series downpipe is never going to fit in a car right? that thing looks like its gonna sit right where the radiator is</TD></TR></TABLE>


what a surprise

 

Nothing like a Science vs. Engineering arguement.....

That is pretty much what we have depending on how you view the discussion.

Engineering teaches you to assess the need and then build it with a margin of safety...nothing more.

Science requires it becomes "law"....100% of the time in order to be correct.

The principle of backpurging is certainly valid due to coking and potential damage to the turbo. The question is, in 25...50...100 manifolds will a significant percentage cause a failure?

I think that is certainly a customers choice on whether they purchase a backpurged manifold or not. If the customer is informed, they can make an informed decision.

It's unfortunate though that the Honda crowd is becoming known for these low cost, low quality parts though. Great for a 16 y/o's budget, but terrible for business.