So, first I think it would help to give some background information....

I bought a PY ITR in 2000 and heavily modified it. I was going to join Honda challenge at the end of 2003, so i purchased a Kirk 6-point bolt-in roll cage. Circumstances changed and i had to sell the car; however, the cage stayed in the garage.

Now, I have a 98 ITR with very similar modifications as the yellow one (205-210 HP). I have for sure decided that I want roll protection, but I can't decide if I should put the cage in, or convert it to the 4 point roll bar.

The car isn't going to be a Honda Challenge car, but it will see auto X all the time and track events random times throughout the year. What are your opinions?? For some reason I am having a hard time making this decision.

 

Leave the bar out, it's a PITA and will hurt your resale value and practicality.

Also, if you're rear ended, you'll have a nice bar waiting for your head as your seat flexes

Do you have a stock seat? You'll need a seatback brace (not recommended) or a fixed back seat for NASA (see CCR for details) if you want to run that 5-pt harness.

Also, it's heavy, it'll just slow you down at trackdays

 

Trade me your cage and Ill give you my rollbar.

 

I have a weld in roll bar (4-point) and it is completely fine. The only issues I have is that I cannot use the back seat nor adjust the for and aft of the seats. For taller passengers that's any issue, but I'm only 5'9". I have full access of the trunk area and the chasis is super stiff. Plus I feel safe.

 

Circut Star- Is it you that I have tried to sell this thing to before??? Just out of curiousity what kind of bar do you have??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr1236 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Circut Star- Is it you that I have tried to sell this thing to before??? Just out of curiousity what kind of bar do you have??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Circuit Star has a Autopower 4-point bolt-in bar. Honestly, I think you should not install a rollbar or cage for a auto-x car. Resale value does go down and it isn't all that necessary. True, when I had the Autopower in my R, I felt safer, but with oem seats it actually may be more dangerous even if there was rollbar padding. It's debatable whether it is safer or not even with a fixed bucket seat, but hope you will make the right decision.

 

I have heard of a few people mention that it can even be less safe with a bar or cage if you have the oem seat. What is the reasoning behind this?? I'm assuming that seats such as sparco or any other type of race seat takes care of this problem??? Thanks for all of the help so far.

 

Yea, that was me...i ended up just buying Nightrider's bar...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr1236 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have heard of a few people mention that it can even be less safe with a bar or cage if you have the oem seat. What is the reasoning behind this?? I'm assuming that seats such as sparco or any other type of race seat takes care of this problem??? Thanks for all of the help so far.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That doesn't make any sense. OEM seats have nothing to do with it. I feel it comes down to weather or not you are going to use harnesses.

Harnesses should never be worn with OEM seats UNLESS they specifically have holes to accept the harnesses like Recaros do. Harnesses should not be worn unless you have a roll cage or roll bar. In the unfortunate event that you have a roll over, you will not be able to lean over into the passenger seat because the harnesses hold you in place at an upright position. This can result in serious injury to the neck and spinal column or death due to the total weight of the car being forced onto your body.

One particular HT member will argue that a roll bar or cage in a car is just as dangerous because you can split your head open on the metal. This scenario could happen daily driving when your obviously not wearing a helmet like if you were racing.

Who knows...personal preference maybe? Safety preference? Obviously you need to stick within the rules of the sanctioning body that governs the type of racing you plan on doing.

For me, I'm pretty much done racing my car. So I'm in the process of taking my 4-point weld in roll bar out. Time to make it a commuter car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Leave the bar out, it's a PITA and will hurt your resale value and practicality.

Also, if you're rear ended, you'll have a nice bar waiting for your head as your seat flexes

Do you have a stock seat? You'll need a seatback brace (not recommended) or a fixed back seat for NASA (see CCR for details) if you want to run that 5-pt harness.

Also, it's heavy, it'll just slow you down at trackdays </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't have a lot to add to what Chris and Haleiwa-Brando have said.

A production car's safety features are designed as a whole package, and when you start changing things you have to start worrying about everything else that has features that rely on the performance of the feature that you've just changed.

Something that people don't talk about very much is that the squabs of factory seats are designed to bend in certain situations, or actually break at the hinge in other situations, and this is a part of the car's overall safety design.

So...if something causes you to have to put a seat back brace against that OEM squab, you need to be sure that you've also taken care of the issue for which the breakaway squab was designed.

If you're going so far that you're beginning to think about things like roll bars and harnesses, please make sure you're listening to people who are familiar with your local group's safety chapters in their CCR, and the theories behind what went into the way the rules were written.

In my case, the guy who wrote the NASA CCR was participating actively in events out here, and I'd get word (precise word) of when it was time to change my car a little. This has progressed over the years until I have a full Honda Challenge cage, FIA seats, harnesses, and on and on.

But...now they're talking about head restraints....

It really gets completely out of hand, and my car can now is barely Virginia-legal for the street and is only driven to and from the track on the roads. Sometimes when I notice the events pictures in these forums I kind of miss the times I could just hop in the car and go somewhere.



Be careful going down this road that you really mean it, and that you are committed to doing it the right way.

Otherwise, you might do well to listen to the guys telling you not to start out on that road at all.

 

Thanks for all of the input everyone.

This seems much more complicated than I expected. One may typically think, bar and harnesses go in, car is more safe. I will definetely be checking into the rules for the classes I will be racing in and hopefully can come up with the best setup for safety.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't have a lot to add to what Chris and Haleiwa-Brando have said.</TD></TR></TABLE>

For someone without much to add, you type a lot

Yeah, GK described the trap I fell into. It would have been smart to buy a racecar/track day car that some other sucker has dumped a bunch of money and safety equipment, rather than do the same to mine in pieces. It's a slippery slope... If you really want a rollbar, seat and harness, go do it, but you should at least do the three at the same time.