Hey guys, already looked through HT, at the new and archived posts regarding ITRs burning oil. General consensus is it's common. However, I couldnt really find an answer to my particular issue. Hoping someone can help...

Problem: 97 ITR w/170,000 KMs burns 1 litre of oil every 300-500km's (thats about a 1/4 of what the engine holds!)
- No visible white/black/blue smoke of any sort apon startup, or while driving normal
- Hit vtec and higher rpms, poof of BLACK (not blue) smoke
- TONS of carbon (black soot) on the back bumper and wing
- leaks nowhere, clean as a whistle
- engine runs great, awesome power

Engine: obd2 USDM b18c5 (stock w/car) with 170,000 kms)
STOCK ECU
skunk2 valvetrain
engine rebuild around 120,000 kms (before i owned it)
adj cam gears
mugen headgasket
jdm pistons

I HAVE TRIED THE FOLLOWING:
- running 10w30 dino oil vs 5w30 synthetic
- changed fuel filter
- changed pcv valve
- replaced one o2 sensor that shop tested and said "may" be going
- installed FPR and gauge, running at ~42 with vaccuum connected
- replaced distributor (new)
- replaced spark plugs with ngk platnum
- replaced spark plug wires
- fiddled with cam and ign timing (set to stock again)
- ran injector cleaner
- ran different octane gasses (tried 91, vs 94 - no difference)
- checked valve lash - good
- even tried running oil additives - no change

Additional info:
- recently when I changed my spark plugs (were only ~3 months old) they were almost burnt to a crisp. Engine seems to run HOT to the touch (no sarcastic comments pls ) but never any coolant temperature problems. Can post pics if you'd like. Do you know if this is result from running to rich, too lean.... ??

Short of a rebuild, I dont know what else to try!!!!! The car runs GREAT, but it gets a real bad buildup of black soot on the back, smells like carbon when i hit high rpms, and goes through OIL like no other. (but cant see it burning blue at all)

Any help would be appreciated!

 

have you done a compression test or leakdown yet?

I wouldnt worry about the plugs unless there was oil deposits on them, etc. might be a bit leaner than stock simply because of your bolt ons, but probably not to the point of burning your plugs up. your knock sensor would prevent that as well. just for safety sake, check your timing, and maybe use NGK copper plugs, maybe even a step colder than stock. cheap and work just as well as the stock platinums, you just need to change them more often.

Im willing to bet either valve seals, or rings on this one. And since the motor is "built" who knows the quality that went into it. might not be a bad idea to pull the head anyway and check the retainers for wear (if titanium), replace valve seals, guides, and maybe a valve job.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6r0ll &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sucks to be you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow thats a informative waste of space.

OP:
i have a similar problem with a poormans ITR set-up i have and ive replaced the valve seals and headgasket...still burning oil, just not as fast and it is also not visable while driving, but ive been told it is seen from behind. im going to just pop the pistons out clean up the cylinder walls and put new rings in. id say start out with a compression and leakdown test

 

It's your oil control rings on the pistons. I went through the samething, but on a gsr.

Exactly everything you did I did to try and help the oil problem

-new distributor
-new spark plugs and wires
-new o2 sensor
-new air filter
-new cat
-pcv valve good
-valve lash checked every couple of months
-tried various oils...
Mobil 1 5w30, 10w30
German Castrol 0w30
Castrol 5w30, 5w40
Mobil 1 Truck/Diesel 15w50

They all still burned

The fuel problem was from the bolt-ons I/H/E and not getting street tuned and the oil contaminating the mixture.

Tried sunoco 91 & 94 octane and various fuel injector cleaners and detergent.

Compression number were 245psi +/- 5 psi across all cylinders. Leakdown numbers were all below 6%.

Valve seals were still in good condition when removed.

When you do a oil change, does your oil turn dark within a few days kilometers/miles of driving? That's a good indicator, although all oils are different.

Compression test only tests the top two piston rings, not the oil control rings. Same goes for the leakdown tester.


So I'm telling you now, don't waste anymore money trying to diagnose your problem. It's the oil control rings. I wish I took a picture of mine buring the rebuild compared to how they're suppose to be when new. Don't even bother with the valve seals. If it was really the valve seals causing you to be losing that much oil, like in our case, you'd for sure see it coming out the exhaust, especially in vtec.


The worst part of it all, is that it pulled like a champ and ran perfectly fine, along with me still getting decent gas mileage.

 

Thanks so much for the awesome help everyone ('cept eg6roll...eat a turd ) I will investigate as you've suggested, and let you know what the results are!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andy_R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks so much for the awesome help everyone ('cept eg6roll...eat a turd ) I will investigate as you've suggested, and let you know what the results are! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Really kinda hard to tell without any leak down and or compression tests. I have found it to be two culprits, vave seals/oil rings on piston.

 

I have a similar problem just not as bad. Oil turns dark within a week after oil change and I go through about 1 litre at a lapping day or 1.5 litres between oil changes if daily driven. It's really not that bad but I'm sure it will get worse over time.

Good luck Andy. Hope to see a built motor under your hood soon

 

i kinda have the same problem

i'm doing my cams and blah blah sometime soon and planning to change my valve stems as well

i heard it's either your valve seals/stems or piston rings.
my motor has 100,xxx km

 

I just had my cylinder head rebuilt and it still burns oil and emits the black soot.

Get the pistons re-ringed if you want to fix it

 

Rings, and the only reason I don't say valve seals, is that you say no smoke on startup. Usually when valve seals go bad (2 cars I've had) it will have a small smoke cloud at startup, but none any other time. With that many km's on the car, I'd be willing to be it's going to be the rings. Do a leak down and compression test to confirm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave_B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rings, and the only reason I don't say valve seals, is that you say no smoke on startup. Usually when valve seals go bad (2 cars I've had) it will have a small smoke cloud at startup, but none any other time. With that many km's on the car, I'd be willing to be it's going to be the rings. Do a leak down and compression test to confirm.</TD></TR></TABLE>

and also during idle.