I have a stock battery thats is only about 9 months old and its fine, but i was looking into a deep cycle battery because i like to listen to music or watch dvds in my car with it off. Would i be better getting a yellow top and using it as the starter and for everything or getting 2 batteries. and how would i go about wiring up the two batteries so the car starts off the stock one, and then the system runs off the other one?


Modified by sony224422 at 5:56 PM 5/25/2006

 

If you want to be able to listen to your tunes for a long time or very loud with the car not running then I would say get 2 batt. it will be a parallel hook up, but the "Audio" batt. pos. + would be wired through a solenoid, something like this...
http://www.allelectronics.com/....html, and trigger it with an ign. on wire or a switch, so you can isolate the "audio" batt. when the ign. or switch is off, but connect it when the ign. or switch is on so it will charge when the motor is running, all audio pos. (+) wiring should be connected to the "Audio" batt., a relay can be used if you still want the audio system to turn off with the ign. switch. 94

 

Run the yellow top as a secondary battery for all your accessories and keep the stock one to start up or get a red top to replace the stock one. All you would need is a battery isolator, 4g wire and a good location for the 2nd battery.

 

wow haha thats alot to do but i think i can handle it. This is what i want to do exactly. I want to have the stock battery for starting only, i'll probably even take the other accessories from the car off that battery too, and put them on the yellowtop. The yellow top is for the system ( 600 watts rms), tv/dvd player, and the car accessories. I do want the battery to charge with the other one too, without having to switch them back and fourth.

 

I forgot to mention i will have the key on the first click on the ign, so i won't have worry about the radio relay or anything like that. Because if i don't i will forget to turn everything off haha.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/STINGER-SR...wItem

will that work alright? I don't have a credit card, but i have paypal thats the only reason im looking at a different one.

 

yeah that will work no problem

 

Yes that solenoid will work, [it is make exactly for that] take my advice, leave everything on the stock batt. and connect the audio system to the 2nd. batt. you can even leave the HUs acc. at the oem radio harnesses acc., [it is no more then a trigger anyway] there would be no point in putting the cars other acc. on the 2nd. batt., it will also keep the wiring simple. 94

 

In this diagram it shows the alt. hooked up to the isolator, which makes sense to me, but on the isolator there doesn't appear to be "in" input.

Here is a picture of the isolator.

So how would i go about hooking this all up? Stock battery connections on the battery, then from the pos i put it one of the bigger nuts on the isolator. I ground the isolator with one of the smaller nuts.

Now in the directions for the isolator, it says to connect the other batter pos to the larger nut, and then put an ign. to the smaller nut. By ign nut, do they mean the alternator or what.
Here are the directions.

http://www.stingerelectronics....m.pdf

 

the "isolator" in the diagram is probably a "diode isolator". I do not recommend it, the one you show is a solenoid isolator, nothing more then a big relay, all you need to do is run a 4ga cable from the stock batt. pos. to one of the terminals on the top of the solenoid and another 4ga from the other terminal to the pos. post of the 2nd batt. they are like terminal 30 and 87 of a relay, the two terminals at the bottom will be like terminal 85 and 86 on a relay, the control the solenoid, ground one of them and connect a wire from the 2nd ign. free pin on your under dash fuse box to the other one, the solenoid will only be on when ign. is in the run position, [motor running] not in acc. or start. Ground the 2nd batt. to a good ground point as close to the batt. as possible, [seat and seat belt bolts work very well] you can run a fused 10ga power wire off the same solenoid terminal as the one running to the 2nd. batt. to behind the HU and connect the HUs constant, [yellow and any other audio powers] the acc can be left on the oem harness or if you want install a relay, and control the relay with the oem acc. if you do your audio system is totally isolated from the stock batt. and you could kill the 2nd batt. but have no problem starting and running the car. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and you could kill the 2nd batt. but have no problem starting and running the car. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right. With one good battery and one dead battery, once you turn the ignition to on, you will get a big spark inside the "isolator" (relay), and the good batt will drain to about 50%. Good luck trying to start the car with that. The relay isolator (pictured) will parallel both batteries when turned on, and since one batt is good and one is dead, the voltages will want to even out very quickly (big spark accross isolator contacts as they try to close). This will destroy the isolator, and possibly your good battery. That's like connecting a relay contact accross the battery (pos and neg) and turning on the relay.

The diode isolator is the one you should get. With that, the batteries are isolated from each other. Then when you start the engine, the alternator will charge each battery separately.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> connect a wire from the 2nd ign. free pin on your under dash fuse box to the other one, the solenoid will only be on when ign. is in the run position, [motor running] not in acc. or start.
so i just find an acc., can i use like the cig lighter wire since its only on when the car is on or the key is in the ign?
you can run a fused 10ga power wire off the same solenoid terminal as the one running to the 2nd. batt. to behind the HU and connect the HUs constant, [yellow and any other audio powers] the acc can be left on the oem harness or if you want install a relay, and control the relay with the oem acc. if you do your audio system is totally isolated from the stock batt. and you could kill the 2nd batt. but have no problem starting and running the car. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>
So, i can put the yellow constant on the 2nd battery, and leave the acc. one on the first battery, and not have any problems? The amps for my car would be on the 2nd battery too, so the only pull from the first battery would be the acc. power from the headunit when the car is off, correct?

 

**************Not my write up*********


Typical Tools Needed:
-Large gauge wire cutters
-Standard wire cutters/strippers
-Assorted flat and phillips screwdrivers
-Pliers
-A vice or large vice-grips
-1/4" and 3/8" Drive socket sets
-Battery terminal cleaning brush
-Battery terminal puller(for top post only)
-Assorted wrenches
-Drill with drill bits and wire brush
-3/4" metal hole saw or paddle bit
-Digital multimeter

Typical Materials Needed
-"x" feet of large gauge wire for power
-"x" feet of large gauge wire for grounds at the new battery and isolator (if required)
-3 to 7 ring terminals for above wire, dictated by your termianls, isolator and installation needs
-"x" feet of black plastic wire protector
-Zip ties
-Electrical tape
-"x" gauge wire grommets for passing through metal
-Positive battery terminal with enough points for stock wires plus all added wires
-Positive battery terminal with enough points for charging wire plus amp power wires
-Negative battery terminal with enough points for battery ground and amplifier grounds
-18 gauge wire for islator control
-Small ring terminal for 18 gauge wire
-Machiene screw to attach battery ground if none is available near battery location
-*Battery enclosure with vent tubes if battery is to be in trunk, hatch or ext. cab area (can be home made or have a window for viewing)
-And of course a second battery (deep cycle)

*This applies to ALL conventional automotive batteries. Even "sealed" batteries are vented in some way to release the gasses created by the discharge/charge cycle. This gas is toxic, corrosive and flamable and must be released outside the vehicle.

This set of instructions is just for the installation of the battery itself. Hooking up the amps is the same as when running to the main battery, but the wires are shorter and the ground can go directly back to the battery.

To start with, disconnet your ground to the main battery to prevent sparks and damage to electrical components.

Next, install the main charging wire like you would for any amplifier installation. This wire should be rated to handle at LEAST the maximum rated current draw of all your amplifiers or accesories you intend to run off the second battery. This wire will carry power to charge the rear battery and operate all your accesories when the engine is running. After the wire is through the firewall, leave some slack in the engine compartment and wait to run the wire to the trunk or wherever the battery is to be installed.

Next, fuse the main wire within 18 inches of the battery. This will protect the wire from a short drawing excessive current from the orriginal battery. Fuse above the total accesory current draw, but no more than the wires rated ampacity.

You can skp the above steps if you already have a suitable wire run from a previous installation.

Find a sutable location near the main battery for the isolator. The isolator needs to be securely mounted to the inner fender or firewall, away from the exhaust or anywhere fluids may be spilled when refilling them.

Route the wire to the isolator and cut it so there is some slack between the isolator and the main battery. Install a ring terminal on both ends of the wire at the isolator.

If your isolator has only 2 power terminals, connect the wire from the main battery to the input terminal and the wire to the rear of the car to the output terminal. If you have three terminals on your isolator, connect the wire from the main battery to the input terminal and connect the wire to the rear of the car to the terminal for the auxilary or isolated battery.

Connect a control wire, if required by your isolator, to a wire that is only hot when the car's ignition switch is in the RUN mode. This will isolate the batteries anytime the engine is not running, preventing you from draining your main starting battery and keeping the batteries from draining each other when the car is sitting.

Now, continue to run your main charging wire to the area where the battery will be. Keep it away from RCA wires to prevent noise in your system, if one is already installed.

Once your wire is where you need it, test fit your battery enclosure to decide where to drill holes for your vent tubes. Mark and drill your holes with a hole saw or paddle bit large enough to allow the vent tubes to slide easily through (typically between 1/2 and 3/4 of an inch) and feed them through. Use silicone to seal around the tube so exhaust and battery fumes don't get pulled back into the car.

Secure the battery enclosure to the car and place the battery inside. Estimate where to cut your power wire, guess an inch or so long to allow for slack. Yon can leave the wire long if you feel it will be necessary for some upcoming changes.

Install a second fuse in the charge wire within 18 inches of the second battery. This will prevent a short from pulling excessive current from the second battery. This IS necessary even with the fuse at the front.

Now, find a suitable grounding point for the new battery, drill any necessary holes and use the a drill with a wire brush to remove all paint and primer from the area. Make a ground wire long enough to reach that ground from the battery. Use a ring terminal to attach at the chassis. Bolt it down securely, but don't strip out your hole.

Now, connect your charge wire to your battery terminals at the main and secondary batterys and hook the terminals to the batteries. Connect any amplifier power wires at this time also if you wish.

Next, connect the gound wire to the battery terminal for the secondary battery, along with any amp wires if you wish. Once all the wires are connected to the terminal, connect the terminal to the battery and secure the battery to the enclosure with the hold down bracket or strap. Place the cover for your enclosure on and secure it.

Reconnect your main battery's ground wire and make any ground wires needed for your isolator, hook them up. Clean up your tools. Install the fuse at the front of the charge wire, under the hood. Use a meter to check for voltage on the wire going to the trunk, you should get 0v with the key off or in accesory and 12v with the key in the run position. Install the fuse in the charge wire at the rear of the car.

Now you are ready to go out on the town, playing your system or running your accesories as much as your rear battery can handle. If it goes dead, start the car and charge it up. You'll never have a dead battery because you played your stereo too long again. Enjoy and good luck.


Pretty much what he ^^^^^^^ said!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sony224422 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, i can put the yellow constant on the 2nd battery, and leave the acc. one on the first battery, and not have any problems? The amps for my car would be on the 2nd battery too, so the only pull from the first battery would be the acc. power from the headunit when the car is off, correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It all depends on how many things your running off the acc. line. A in-dash, sat radio, and cell phone wont hurt it unless you go for HOURS on end. Also for a little more safety add a volt meter on the second battery so you dont drain it all the way.

 

thats a really good write up, where did you get it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Right. With one good battery and one dead battery, once you turn the ignition to on, you will get a big spark inside the "isolator" (relay), and the good batt will drain to about 50%. Good luck trying to start the car with that. The relay isolator (pictured) will parallel both batteries when turned on, and since one batt is good and one is dead, the voltages will want to even out very quickly (big spark accross isolator contacts as they try to close). This will destroy the isolator, and possibly your good battery. That's like connecting a relay contact accross the battery (pos and neg) and turning on the relay.

The diode isolator is the one you should get. With that, the batteries are isolated from each other. Then when you start the engine, the alternator will charge each battery separately.</TD></TR></TABLE> Gee thats news to me, and I have only installed 200-300 of them over the last 30+ years, and in the old days we just used Ford starter solenoids, and I have had no more then 2 or 3 come back with a problem, but if you read the posts you would have seen I recommended a switch be installed and if no switch, wire solenoid control to 2nd ign., [so solenoid is "open" when cranking to start]. BTW the charge equalizing is hardly instant. and it is nothing like connecting a relay to the pos. and neg. of the batt. and turning it on, [that would be a dead short] and not even close to the same thing. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sony224422 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So, i can put the yellow constant on the 2nd battery, and leave the acc. one on the first battery, and not have any problems? The amps for my car would be on the 2nd battery too, so the only pull from the first battery would be the acc. power from the headunit when the car is off, correct?</TD></TR></TABLE> Use the 2nd ign. free pin on the fuse box, it only has power when ign. is in the run position.

Yes you can leave the HU acc. on the stock wire and connect everything else to the 2nd batt. without any problems, but if you want to completely isolate the audio system, [but still want it to turn on/off with the ign. just install a relay and control the relay wit the stock acc. wire. 94

 

***starter is starter battery***

Thats how im going to do it, will this work. I'm keeping both batteries under the hood if i can fit it. This is what i got from your post FCM, i believe this is how you were telling me how to wire it up. Tell me if i should use a different ign line.

And i assume i keep the alternator and starter on the first battery, and the alternator charges the second one even though its still hooked up to the first one thru the isolator




Modified by sony224422 at 6:48 PM 5/23/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Use the 2nd ign. free pin on the fuse box, it only has power when ign. is in the run position.

I want it to work on the first turn of the key too.. like when the radio would normally turn on, not when i would have the fans and stuff on.

Yes you can leave the HU acc. on the stock wire and connect everything else to the 2nd batt. without any problems, but if you want to completely isolate the audio system, [but still want it to turn on/off with the ign. just install a relay and control the relay wit the stock acc. wire. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sony224422 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


***starter is starter battery***

Thats how im going to do it, will this work. I'm keeping both batteries under the hood if i can fit it. This is what i got from your post FCM, i believe this is how you were telling me how to wire it up. Tell me if i should use a different ign line.

And i assume i keep the alternator and starter on the first battery, and the alternator charges the second one even though its still hooked up to the first one thru the isolator


Modified by sony224422 at 6:48 PM 5/23/2006</TD></TR></TABLE> Yes that is all right, but as I said instead of the cig. lighter/ ign. switch, plug that wire into the 2nd ign. free pin in the fuse box, it only has power on it when the ign. switch is in the run position, [not when on acc. or start. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Right. With one good battery and one dead battery, once you turn the ignition to on, you will get a big spark inside the "isolator" (relay), and the good batt will drain to about 50%. Good luck trying to start the car with that. The relay isolator (pictured) will parallel both batteries when turned on, and since one batt is good and one is dead, the voltages will want to even out very quickly (big spark accross isolator contacts as they try to close). This will destroy the isolator, and possibly your good battery. That's like connecting a relay contact accross the battery (pos and neg) and turning on the relay.

The diode isolator is the one you should get. With that, the batteries are isolated from each other. Then when you start the engine, the alternator will charge each battery separately.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree 100%

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Gee thats news to me, and I have only installed 200-300 of them over the last 30+ years, and in the old days we just used Ford starter solenoids, and I have had no more then 2 or 3 come back with a problem, but if you read the posts you would have seen I recommended a switch be installed and if no switch, wire solenoid control to 2nd ign., [so solenoid is "open" when cranking to start]. BTW the charge equalizing is hardly instant. and it is nothing like connecting a relay to the pos. and neg. of the batt. and turning it on, [that would be a dead short] and not even close to the same thing. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think what he is trying to point out is if the battery is completely dead and you flip that relay on you will have a large arc across the contacts and a severe drain on the stock battery. Not only will the charging sytem be charging the second battery but so will the stock battery. A battery can supply huge amounts of current instantaniously. Everyone knows chargeing a battery really fast is not good. Even battery chargers with boost say not to charge in boost mode. And its not because of the charger.

Your method will "work", but its not the safest or best way to go about it.

You can pick up a 110 amp diode isolater for $60.00

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Yes that is all right, but as I said instead of the cig. lighter/ ign. switch, plug that wire into the 2nd ign. free pin in the fuse box, it only has power on it when the ign. switch is in the run position, [not when on acc. or start. 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ohh wow i get what your saying now. Where do i find this spot in my fuse box? If it helps i have a 96 accord lx.

And i'll still go with what your saying FCM.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think what he is trying to point out is if the battery is completely dead and you flip that relay on you will have a large arc across the contacts and a severe drain on the stock battery. Not only will the charging sytem be charging the second battery but so will the stock battery. A battery can supply huge amounts of current instantaniously. Everyone knows chargeing a battery really fast is not good. Even battery chargers with boost say not to charge in boost mode. And its not because of the charger.

Your method will "work", but its not the safest or best way to go about it.

You can pick up a 110 amp diode isolater for $60.00</TD></TR></TABLE> Yea your right, I have been doing it wrong all these years, I guess I have just been lucky that all but a couple have had problems. I wonder why solenoids, [or batt. 1-2-both switches] are used almost exclusively in R/V and trailer 2nd batt.(s) applications?

If you read the post I said "you could kill", I would never recommend draining any batt. completely, even a deep cycle batt. will only take it so many times before damage is done, but in the event of the second batt. being completely drained, [and solenoid wired as I said] yes there will be an ark, but there will be no problem starting car and the stock batt. works as a "buffer" between the dead batt. and the alt. so it's not just the alt. charging the dead batt., which is the case with a diode isolator.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sony224422 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ohh wow i get what your saying now. Where do i find this spot in my fuse box? If it helps i have a 96 accord lx.

And i'll still go with what your saying FCM.</TD></TR></TABLE> Sorry can't find a 96 fuse box, but here is a 94/95, the free pins will look the same even if they are not in the same place, see the row of 4 terminals just to the left of the fuses, [2nd pix, front of fuse box]... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1 they are the free pins, the one you want is the one that has power on it only when the key is in the run position, 2nd ign., [no power in acc. or start]. 94

 

this is some good info, epsecially the write up, i was wondering how 2 batt worked