This Newbie is looking for some advice about getting a cage installed in an EG hatch. The plan is to use it for HPDEs for now, but I am aiming for HC in 2007. I will trailer the car to the track, but I want to keep plates on it for very occasional street use.

Question 1: How extensive of a cage would you reccommend? Only the legal minimum, or a complete setup (NASCAR door bars, through the firewall, etc.)?

Question 2&3: Bolt in, or weld in? Why?

Question 4: I can weld ok, so should I buy a premade kit from a company like I/O Port, or just let a pro fabricate the cage?

Question 5: If a pro were to fab/install the cage, anyone have a particular shop recommendation for this? An HC guy I know has a nice cage installed, but he had in done in SoCal, and I don't want to drive that far!

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

I can do your cage. I'm in sacramento and I have done nearly half of the cages in norcal HC, including many EG hatches...Mike Quans, Jimmy's, dereck's, Donna's and Al's EK hatchs...and others. PM me and I'll give you my #.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Question 1: How extensive of a cage would you reccommend? Only the legal minimum, or a complete setup (NASCAR door bars, through the firewall, etc.)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do the full monte to the extent of the rules INSIDE the cabin. Pretty sure going thru the firewall is a no-no in both SCCA and NASA...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Question 2&3: Bolt in, or weld in? Why?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Weld-in. There's no such thing as a REALLY good bolt-in. They pass tech, but they are hardly ideal

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Question 4: I can weld ok, so should I buy a premade kit from a company like I/O Port, or just let a pro fabricate the cage?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Best to let a regular do it unless you just want to do it for the experience. If your time has value, I doubt you'd save anything in the long run.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Question 5: If a pro were to fab/install the cage, anyone have a particular shop recommendation for this? An HC guy I know has a nice cage installed, but he had in done in SoCal, and I don't want to drive that far!</TD></TR></TABLE>
mikeski38/Mike Lock He knows the rules. He's done it many times before. We all know him and see him at every race. If he screwed up at all, all of us would know and would torture, belittle and humiliate him at each and every race....

Plus, he's getting married soon and is going to need legitimate reasons to go out at night.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

mikeski38/Mike Lock He knows the rules. He's done it many times before. We all know him and see him at every race. If he screwed up at all, all of us would know and would torture, belittle and humiliate him at each and every race....

Plus, he's getting married soon and is going to need legitimate reasons to go out at night.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mike does all the cages for our cars and he does know the rules. If you need any help with setting the car up and getting it ready for HPDE or racing let me know, we build and set up Honda and Acura race and HPDE cars for NASA and SCCA, we are also a NASA tech station.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itaintegra52 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If you need any help with setting the car up and getting it ready for HPDE or racing let me know, we build and set up Honda and Acura race and HPDE cars for NASA and SCCA, we are also a NASA tech station.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yet another valuable resouce who would never hear the end of it if he preformed poorly in any way.

Damn, I wanna move to the East Bay...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Damn, I wanna move to the East Bay...</TD></TR></TABLE>


You mean you want to move to the Gay Area. ( Bay Area)

Edo

 

Yeah, that's what I meant. 'Cause I'm a flaming homo who enjoys witty banter chalked full of sexual innuendo even more than race cars...

 

bolt in good if you wreck car and use cage for next car.....

thru-firewall ok in NASA but add weight (35lbs)......

check rules before ANY build.......

Good Luck....JB

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joe Barile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bolt in good if you wreck car and use cage for next car.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bolt ins are not only less safe, they ususaly dont fit the car well.. I also would not re-use a cage.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NorCalTrackster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This Newbie is looking for some advice about getting a cage installed in an EG hatch. The plan is to use it for HPDEs for now, but I am aiming for HC in 2007. I will trailer the car to the track, but I want to keep plates on it for very occasional street use.

Question 1: How extensive of a cage would you reccommend? Only the legal minimum, or a complete setup (NASCAR door bars, through the firewall, etc.)?

Question 2&3: Bolt in, or weld in? Why?

Question 4: I can weld ok, so should I buy a premade kit from a company like I/O Port, or just let a pro fabricate the cage?

Question 5: If a pro were to fab/install the cage, anyone have a particular shop recommendation for this? An HC guy I know has a nice cage installed, but he had in done in SoCal, and I don't want to drive that far!

Thanks for any suggestions!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

1) As per rules, you can get by with the absolute minimum. However, you're essentially talking about putting your life jeopardy if you were to get in a severe collision or rollover. Although a cage such as an autopower DOM cage will suffice, it won't protect you nearly as much as a fully built cage. Is your life worth more than $700 or whatever the min. legal scca/nasa costs?

2 & 3) weld-in. It's stronger. it uses continuous bars (not bolted sleeves to connect bars) and by being welded to the chassis of the car.

4) have someone professionally do it. If you're not a welder, don't have this be your first welding project. If you miss something when building your cage, the tech inspector will make you fix it before the car gets on the track-thus wasting track time, and money. Also, building roll cages is more than just welding. It requires having the knowledge of roll cage design and physics.

5) since you're in norcal- see Mike Lock. He's in the sacramento area. He's posted above-

good luck and don't cut corners on a cage

jmeris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrianZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bolt ins are not only less safe, they ususaly dont fit the car well.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I forgot that. Definately NOT for the Big & Tall shoppers...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do the full monte to the extent of the rules INSIDE the cabin. Pretty sure going thru the firewall is a no-no in both SCCA and NASA...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Going thru the firewall is LEGAL in NASA, Honda Challenge-
4.9.4
Two (2) forward braces per side (total of four (4)) may pass through the firewall and connect at no more than two (2) mounting points in the engine compartment (i.e. strut tower or frame.)
4.9.6
If utilized, an additional thirty (30) pound weight penalty will apply.


As for SCCA- I know, it's legal in SCCA Pro Racing-i.e. World Challenge
don't know about SCCA Club racing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecjj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Going thru the firewall is LEGAL in NASA, Honda Challenge-
4.9.4
Two (2) forward braces per side (total of four (4)) may pass through the firewall and connect at no more than two (2) mounting points in the engine compartment (i.e. strut tower or frame.)
4.9.6
If utilized, an additional thirty (30) pound weight penalty will apply.


As for SCCA- I know, it's legal in SCCA Pro Racing-i.e. World Challenge
don't know about SCCA Club racing</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, it is not legal in SCCA Club racing.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but would anyone recomend a place in socal?

 

This is good to know that there is a cage builder you all trust. I am hoping to get into honda challenge as well in the next one or two years.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .one lane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry to hijack the thread, but would anyone recomend a place in socal?</TD></TR></TABLE>

After seeing the work L-CON does, i would suggest going to him.

 

Thanks to all who responded. Mike, I have PM'ed you with phone #s.

FWIW, I worked a few times with some SCCA national Scrutineers, mostly at drivers school, and at least one told me while we were inspecting Spec Miatas with bolt in cages that many times, a bolt in cage was preferable to a weld in, mostly because of lousy welds. This scrutineer said he had seen wrecked cars with broken welds that shouldn't have broken. On more than one occasion I personally saw cracked and and rusted welds during inspection on new and older cars at drivers' school at THill.

I am not saying that welded cages are less safe; I believe a properly welded cage would be superior to a bolt in, particularly for stiffening the chassis. I find it hard to believe, however, that a bolt-in cage was as unsafe as some claim. I think they wouldn't be allowed by NASA or SCCA if that were the case.

On the other hand, I am a noob, and I have never rolled a car, so I don't know....
I do appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NorCalTrackster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Thanks to all who responded. Mike, I have PM'ed you with phone #s.

1FWIW, I worked a few times with some SCCA national Scrutineers, mostly at drivers school, and at least one told me while we were inspecting Spec Miatas with bolt in cages that many times, a bolt in cage was preferable to a weld in, mostly because of lousy welds. This scrutineer said he had seen wrecked cars with broken welds that shouldn't have broken. On more than one occasion I personally saw cracked and and rusted welds during inspection on new and older cars at drivers' school at THill.

I am not saying that welded cages are less safe; I believe a properly welded cage would be superior to a bolt in, particularly for stiffening the chassis. I find it hard to believe, however, that a bolt-in cage was as unsafe as some claim. 2I think they wouldn't be allowed by NASA or SCCA if that were the case.

On the other hand, I am a noob, and I have never rolled a car, so I don't know....
I do appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks! </TD></TR></TABLE>

1 that is very true. Mike's cages have been tested, sadly two times now. Once in a appx 90mph+ roll over. And the other time in a T-bone were the other car was going about 55-70mph. Both of the drivers walked away with out any serious injuries, just alittle scared.

i can send you pictures of the car that got T-boned, and mike has pictures of both im sure.

2 The NASA/SCCA guide lines are minimum requirements, and in some cases wouldn't really do much to save you. As an example, if you put in a autopower roll cage bolt in, and are t-boned in the driver side door, there is no way that one, extremly low bar is going to keep that other car from getting too you.

Race is dangerous and you can die doing it, it is the drivers responsibilty, to manage that risk of dieing as best as possible.

 

thats my cage, with door bars me and mike came up with, they weren't finished at that time though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After seeing the work L-CON does, i would suggest going to him.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow small world. I just bought a car from Louie at L-CON. I was also about to ask for a recomendation in socal, I guess I already know the guy I need to go to. How much are these roll cages we're talking about anyways?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kouki-EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow small world. I just bought a car from Louie at L-CON. I was also about to ask for a recomendation in socal, I guess I already know the guy I need to go to. How much are these roll cages we're talking about anyways?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do not know how much louie charges, but for a good cage like mine i would expect to pay between 2500-3500

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for a good cage like mine i would expect to pay between 2500-3500</TD></TR></TABLE>
&lt;Reminding myself that the price of steel has risen almost as fast as gasoline in the last few years&gt;

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I do not know how much louie charges, but for a good cage like mine i would expect to pay between 2500-3500</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, way more than I expected.

I guess I'll talk to him about something in the $1000 price range.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kouki-EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, way more than I expected.

I guess I'll talk to him about something in the $1000 price range.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not trying to be a dick, but i doubt that will get you the minimum requirements.


save up, i did, and love having a very safe cage.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not trying to be a dick, but i doubt that will get you the minimum requirements.</TD></TR></TABLE>
At least not from anyone who knows what they're doing and does it for a living...