I'm having a hard time deciding what cams I'm going to buy. For the reasons below.

Cam 1 has a low powerband range, around 3700-5800rpm.

Cam 2 has a midrange/high powerband 5800rpm-7900rpm.


Cam 1 will feel amazing on the street and I'd enjoy it everyday. Since my car is still a daily driver. This cam would be nice if I have to short shift at like 6000rpm instead of redline and put me back into the powerband of Cam 1. I know, only happens sometime. Cam 2 will ultimatly be the faster cam during racing. First reason is it directly matched for my gearing/rim & tire combo. Second it's perfect for my landing shift points when shifting at redline, I'd land right back into the meat of my powerband. Third I want to upgrade in the future to a higher final drive, either the JDM 4.785 or the ATS 4.9, which would further move my landing rpm that much higher respectivly to the final drive choosen.

Cam 1 is about $800 brand new.

Cam 2 is about $1300 brand new.

Both are proven cams. My mind it pretty made up on Cam 2, but the only thing holding me back is the price.

Now I understand it depends on the course setup, track, amount of space, traction and gearing, but I just need a general idea of what rpm everyone is at during a simple auto-x with some slaloms, tight turns etc...


From my personal experience, I've been around 4800-6500, but I don't have enough seat time on different tracks and setups, to come to a solid conclusion. Oh BTW, both cams have the same peak power +/- 5 horsepower.


The reason I said Cam 1 and Cam 2 is because I don't want this to turn into a brand name backing. "I have this cam and it's sick!", type of debate.

Thanks in advance, if there's anything else I'm missing or not thinking about let me know.

 

I never look at my gauge cluster while driving on the autox course. I'm always looking ahead.

 

I have no idea, *if* I have to shift beyond 2nd gear, its usually only after I've found the limiter on a previous run.

What class is this for? Cam, and FD changes are throw you into a prepared class I believe.

 

Yeah it's pretty clear that most are looking ahead, but a lot of people record there runs on video camera, or datalogging the run or as I do, listen to the tone of the exhaust.

People have passengers, etc etc etc

I'm already in a higher class due to me rebuilding my engine and upping the compression. I'm not sure what class I would be in according to the states rules, it's a little different here in Toronto.

 

Replacing a cam will put you into a modified class, most likely if its a street car with full interior you will be in Street Modified. Are you just doing it to have fun, or want to be competetive. In a modified class you can go up against many different cars, and will be harder to get a good PAX time. Anyways I would probably go wtih cam 1 because it would do me better as I hardly ever stay in the high revs, and most courses I stay in second gear.

 

d16z6 4200-8000 most of the session

2nd gear 90% of the time

 

I've only been on a few courses where you are above 6000 rpms. 90% of the courses I've been on are 2nd gear.

Personally you want a car that can stay in the meaty part of the powerband meaning low end torque not high end power. Torque pulls you out of corners.

 

I agree that I'm in second gear as well, I guess the general thought is to go with cam 1???


When I said powerband, I am refering to torque....

 

B16A, on our "Miata" style courses down here, usually around 5500-8500.

However, depending on the type of courses, something that allows you more torque may be much more beneficial depending on how competitive you want to be.

my .02

 

Ideally you'd want something in between. I would have to say stock FD = Cam 1 and 4.785 or 4.9 FD = Cam 2.

I have an LS with Crower 403 cams (yeah I get screwed class-wise but I've won 6 in a row on the local level), 4.40 FD (exact same 1st and 2nd total ratio as a stock GS-R) and stock 6900rpm redline. I never look down either but by the sound, I'd say I'm virtually always 4k-7k... I hate the low LS redline, I hit the limiter at 55mph on maybe half the courses. My torque peaks at 4200 and hp plateaus 6500-6900, which is just lovely. I'm not sure how fast the typical courses get where you are, but I couldn't see being above 6500rpm for very long with stock gearing.

I think in general the extra midrange torque will help you a lot more than a few extra hp at the top end, because the way I see it, even with Cam 1 you're gonna be making your peak hp at high rpm... no matter what at high rpm you'll at least have pretty decent power. I'd rather have good midrange and good high end than great high end but a powerband that falls flat on its face digging out of corners. I'm thinking B16s here (no offense, I mainly mean the stock-weight/stock-geared Civic Si's and Integras with B16 swaps)... "bbbrrrrrrrrrmmmmm... BRAAP! *brake*"

If you get the shorter FD, it's a lot harder to say since you should be up past 6k quite a bit, maybe even the majority of the time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ideally you'd want something in between. I would have to say stock FD = Cam 1 and 4.785 or 4.9 FD = Cam 2.

If you get the shorter FD, it's a lot harder to say since you should be up past 6k quite a bit, maybe even the majority of the time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was going to make the same point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gabebauman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I never look at my gauge cluster while driving on the autox course. I'm always looking ahead. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I tried my first autoX course over the weekend, and yes.. I never looked at my guages once throughout the course. Look ahead!! It really helps.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wildoutwhitegsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cam 1 has a low powerband range, around 3700-5800rpm.

Cam 2 has a midrange/high powerband 5800rpm-7900rpm.

[...]

Oh BTW, both cams have the same peak power +/- 5 horsepower.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How is that possible?

 

How is what possible?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wildoutwhitegsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is what possible?</TD></TR></TABLE>
How is it possible that the cams make the same peak horsepower when Cam #2's torque band extends as high as 7900 RPM?

horsepower = (torque * RPM) / 5252

 

Because cam 1's powerband that I'm refering to is on the non-vtec lobe.

Cam 2's powerband is on the vtec lobe.

Both cams have similiar vtec lobes. Hence the same peak horsepower numbers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wildoutwhitegsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because cam 1's powerband that I'm refering to is on the non-vtec lobe.

Cam 2's powerband is on the vtec lobe.

Both cams have similiar vtec lobes. Hence the same peak horsepower numbers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Let's think about this for a minute:

Cam 1 non-vtec lobe &gt; Cam 2 non-vtec lobe
Cam 1 vtec lobe = Cam 2 vtec lobe

I can't figure out how you're saying that Cam 2 will make more power on the top end if the vtec lobes are exactly the same. This makes no sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Let's think about this for a minute:

Cam 1 non-vtec lobe &gt; Cam 2 non-vtec lobe
Cam 1 vtec lobe = Cam 2 vtec lobe

I can't figure out how you're saying that Cam 2 will make more power on the top end if the vtec lobes are exactly the same. This makes no sense. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Indeed.

 

I never said cam 2 will make more top end power?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wildoutwhitegsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I never said cam 2 will make more top end power?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Comparing a VTEC lobe to a non-VTEC lobe is pointless. What exactly are you asking in this thread?

 

all I want to know is what rpm range most spend time at during an auto-x or event. Yes I know it's 2nd gear, but through what rpm range, so my cam upgrade can be made to fatten up that part of the rpm range, instead of buying a cam based upon all the post on here saying it's a this cam is good for road-racing. This cam is good for street racing....etc


I've found the cams that will work based upon my engine build. I just need to focus on the rpm range that I'll be most spent in.

I've only been doing this for just over a year and I haven't been focusing on power, but mostly seat time. I know the limits of my car, in terms of braking, turn-in, tire pressure, alignment settings, tires and compounds.

Things I need to work on are my lines and setting up for the next corner properly and my heel and toeing. Every once and awhile, I tend to stop looking ahead, but it's not a big problem as much the other two.

I don't have enough seat time, or enough runs at different events to make a conclusion based upon my experiences.

 

If both cams have pretty much identical VTEC lobes, but Cam #1 makes more power on the non-VTEC lobe, why wouldn't you go with Cam #1?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Comparing a VTEC lobe to a non-VTEC lobe is pointless. What exactly are you asking in this thread?</TD></TR></TABLE>


I understand it may pointless to some, but if during auto-x, road racing or whatever if I'm not in vtec, it doesn't make much sense in saying one's better than the other.

One thing I do know for sure, even though I don't have much seat time, not all the time am I in vtec through out the course.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If both cams have pretty much identical VTEC lobes, but Cam #1 makes more power on the non-VTEC lobe, why wouldn't you go with Cam #1?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand what your saying, I just needed confirmation. When I say similiar I mean similiar duration and lift, but the lobe/ramp angles and what not are different.

I'm guessing that this could be the reason why cam 2's powerband comes on later, I'm not sure.

Would you still go with cam 1 in that situation?

 

I am so confused.