Before you flame, since i am a "noobie", i am not allowed to post in the "Forced Induction" forum , so thats why i am posting here. I have searched and searched for an answer for this question, but havent found any info that was helpful. Hoping some of you guys here can help.

So here goes:

I am looking to get a b18c or b18c5 to swap into my 91 CRX. I was looking at getting one of these 2 motors from hmotors and doing the swap and calling it a day.

But, now, after reading about forced induction, i was thinking about going up a level and supercharging it with a JRSC also. so , i guess my question is this.

Since i am building this as a daily driver (75 mile commute), and i want my cake and want to eat it too, what is my best bet? I dont want to sacrafice the integrity of dependability by just slapping on a super charger, without thought to "bottom end" stability and plain old reliability... so i am wondering if i should by a less complete motor and have one (1 of the 2 from above) built with internals ready for the super charger when the budget allows for it.

I think that is the smartest way to do it, but i have no idea where to go for this. I live in the bay area and am looking for a shop that is reputable. I am also thinking about doing this myself. I am wondering what the "best" parts for this build would be? What would be the ideal internals and other parts for this type of application. Remember, i live in california, so smog is an issue, and i am driving it everyday, so i am not sure i should run a lot of boost. Plus, i am starting with a pretty fast motor anyways...

Sorry i am SOO long winded.. just wanted to be as detailed as possible.

i appreciate all suggestions.

also, any other supercharger suggestions would be great.


Modified by eleos1177 at 7:12 PM 5/14/2006

 

keep in mind that the jrsc is made to bolt onto a stock motor that dosent have to be built. now i guess if you want to run more boost than what the stock pulley run then maybe it might be a good idea to build the bottom end. also i do believe that the jrsc is smog legal with a carb number.

 

i think it comes with a 8psi pulley, therefore would be okay on a stock motor espicially a hand-assembled one from honda like the type-r motor

 

so if i was going to build the bottom end of the b18c, what should i look to do? what parts would be ideal. I am just thinking that i might be able to build a beefier bottom end than stock b18c, with better internal parts that ultimately might produce more HP, and might be cheaper thatn buying one at hmotors. i might get close to an ITR by doing this, but not have to shell out the 4500 bucks... But thats if i get a good deal on a block and the subsequent parts required to build the motor.

wht do you guys think?

 

i'm just wondering why a supercharger?
there are so many downsides to a supercharger

first thing that comes to mind, no easily integrable intercooler, you really think the supercharger puts air into your engine any cooler than a turbocharger does? no, read up on physics and the ideal gas law. putting more pressure on a gas will mean you'll hike the temperature, regardless of if its from a supercharger or turbocharger. with a higher intake charge from the supercharger, there is a more likely chance of detonation and destroying your engine.

second, the supercharger robs your engine of horsepower straight from the crank, the thing is crank driven, while the turbocharger is run off exhaust gasses. in essence, the turbocharger is recovering power from wasted power in your exhaust.

finally, its just a known fact that turbochargers have higher adiabatic efficiency (compressor efficiency)

and if you're really thinking about legality, there are some legit turbo kits out there for cheaper than superchargers. its just not worth it, go turbo

i hope i converted you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daliumong &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm just wondering why a supercharger?
there are so many downsides to a supercharger
second, the supercharger robs your engine of horsepower straight from the crank, the thing is crank driven, while the turbocharger is run off exhaust gasses. in essence, the turbocharger is recovering power from wasted power in your exhaust.

i hope i converted you</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is only partly true, when your not on the go pedal the supercharger is basicly freewheeling so how is that robbing you of power?????? it dosent!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eleos1177 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so if i was going to build the bottom end of the b18c, what should i look to do? what parts would be ideal. I am just thinking that i might be able to build a beefier bottom end than stock b18c, with better internal parts that ultimately might produce more HP, and might be cheaper thatn buying one at hmotors. i might get close to an ITR by doing this, but not have to shell out the 4500 bucks... But thats if i get a good deal on a block and the subsequent parts required to build the motor.

wht do you guys think?</TD></TR></TABLE>

now if youe looking to build the bottom end what your going to want to look at is some stronger rods, some lower compression pistons and maybe the crankshaft. but in all actually by the time you build the bottom end you will have the difference in price of the b18 and the type r motor. but keep in mind with the typr r your going to have a much better head, cams,intake mani also. hope that helps

 

i wasnt under the assumption that a SC was puting cooler air in the motor than a TC. i was just under the impression that for a daily driven, low boost application, that a SC would yield better, or might i say, more noticable results. I am NOT going to race this! SPIRITED DRIVING is more likely the case. But i am open to all applications. I just want to make the best choice for what i am trying to accomplish.

Like i said earlier, this is going to be a 2 part gig. I want to build or buy the best naturally aspirated motor for some sort of forced induction application later. I am not the kind of guy who likes to cut corners, so i want it all to be right. I want to form a game plan and then execute it.

keep the responses coming.. i appreciate all of them.

 

also, just to refresh, i am basically wanting to buy either a b18c1 or c5. i am really considering doing some sort of forced induction later on. Its not set in stone, but just in case i do decide to do it, i want to be ready. BUT, the other thing is... this car is going to be my primary vehicle. Daily driven, 90 miles round trip with traffic.. EVERYDAY! I know that is what makes a forced induction application a little more tricky and or risky.... so thats why am hear asking these questions. I want to eliminate as much risk and guesswork as possible. Plus, i am looking for good gas mileage if possible. I cant have this thing getting 15 MPG!

Just wondering if buying one from Hmotors is the best way, or if i can get out of here for around the same cost if i can acquire all required( yet better than stock) parts for a beefier N/A motor that will be great for a TC or SC.

My goals:
solid N/A motor with ability to SC or TC
Best Gas mileage possible
Reliable

i know, i know.. i want the best of both worls. I didnt say that one of my goals was not spending ay money!! idont get me wrong, i want to do this for as CHEAP as possible... but cheap is a relative term.

 

Jeremy,

First thing, don't listen to naysayers. There are so many people ready to hate and talk alot of crap who have no idea about the subject matter.

I own an 88 JRSC'ed CR-X Si w/ a stock d16a6 @ 6-7lbs. And its an awesome daily driver/city car (red light to red light). Gas mileage is great and like stock as long as you stay out of the boost. &lt;--- Hard to do

If you have any questions IM me anytime.

Also, you'll want to read this thread, (nearly 200 pages! ) not at once of course, but it will provide you w/ the basic understanding you need along with the knowledge and fellow H-T members who wish to supercharge their Honda's.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1214810&page=1


btw, I have a 99 Jdm B18C Spec-R motor (11.5:1 comp.) and a ported Jackson Supercharger that will be intercooled by LHT going in my CR-X this summer. The target hp projection is around 275hp @ 10lbs. The engine will remain stock internally.

Later

 

Jeremy,

Go to tuner-junction.com and talk to Jadkar. He has the set-up you want. Puts down over 270+ to the wheels on a stock JDM B18c(r).

 

Eleos1177;

I've currently got a bar'd B18c in my 89 hatchback and also plan on doing a JRSC. Here are some things to think about that I've learned by doing a lot of research;

Due to the fact that you (like me) live in California and want to keep it legal, the <U>only</U> turbo option is the Greddy kit. You can <U>not</U> in any way modify the kit and keep the legality. As a result, you can't add an intercooler and that in turn limits the boost to a number close to what the JRSC will provide.

The JRSC is intended to be used on a stock engine and with the legal boost pulleys, that's not a problem. What <U>is</U> a problem is that the engine you buy from Hmotors (or where ever) is used and of unknown condition. I'd recommend that you do a "stock" rebuild to freshen up the engine.

One of the limiting problems with the JRSC is that they tend to get hot rather fast and that will cause a drop in power. The solution is the addition of the LHT water to air intercooler. The problem is that the intercooler modification would cause the system to loose it's bar legal status.

What I'm planning on doing is to add the JRSC and then get the car re-bar'd, so that the bar sticker reflects that the car has a supercharger. Then do the LHT conversion. It's not legal, but if questioned you could point out the comments on the bar sticker. (in my mind, this would be easier to sneak past a cop or smog check station than an intercooled turbo system)

This configuration is pretty much what rexman is talking about.

Wes V

 

If you get either get the GSR...

It makes no sense to get the type-r, which is a high compression motor, just to make it low compression... That defeats the point of the motor.

The Type-r is designed to be N/A, plus they're so damn expensive it would be dumb to bost it.

YOu could always get a GSR bottom end and a b16 head, which to me is dumb (because again it's ment to be high compression) But poor mans type-r would be less painful to see blow.

 

go all motor and get it tuned. Therefore you wont have to worry about realibility

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jamclaur &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you get either get the GSR...

It makes no sense to get the type-r, which is a high compression motor, just to make it low compression... That defeats the point of the motor.

The Type-r is designed to be N/A, plus they're so damn expensive it would be dumb to bost it.

YOu could always get a GSR bottom end and a b16 head, which to me is dumb (because again it's ment to be high compression) But poor mans type-r would be less painful to see blow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

^^^^ This is an example of common tuning myth for superchargers.


Superchargers love high compression!!!

 

i'm not going to even try...
boosted motors love high compression?
right
regardless of if its a supercharger or a turbocharger, the thing is putting pressurized air in your cylinder. higher compression means more heat. more heat means more chance of detnoation. unless you're a crazy tuner, the general consensus is that lower compression is ideal for boosted motors

to answer the guys question, this is one of the reasons that you cant have an all motor car waiting to become a killer boosted application. the difference between n/a and fi are just to many. First of all, in n/a, you are pulling air into the cylinder, while in fi, you are forcing air in. already one thing that will mess you up. Though the stock cams can be used for either application, turbo cams are designed with short duration and long lift while n/a are designed for better overlap.

and btw i wasn't beating on the jackson superchargers or superchargers in general

 

You can up the compression and boost at the same time all you want. I'll stick to my myths.

 

totally true, you can up the compression and the boost, though you'll need a good tune if you want any reliability out of it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jamclaur &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you get either get the GSR...

It makes no sense to get the type-r, which is a high compression motor, just to make it low compression... That defeats the point of the motor.

The Type-r is designed to be N/A, plus they're so damn expensive it would be dumb to bost it.

YOu could always get a GSR bottom end and a b16 head, which to me is dumb (because again it's ment to be high compression) But poor mans type-r would be less painful to see blow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Jeebus, what a myth. It's all about the tune. High compression loves boost. It's just a matter of not having an idiot tune your motor. Although, I somewhat agree with your cost analysis on the type R block over the GSR block, but the type R will make more power with the same set-up. I prefer having the stock block and head of the hype R over the GSR anyday. Dual valve springs &gt; single valve springs. High compression &gt; low compression.



http://forums.evans-tuning.com...19941

Car: CRX

Engine: Bone stock JDM ITR

Mods: JRSC, LHT air/liquid intercooler kit, LHT front mount heat exchanger, LHT water pump, RC 440cc injectors, walbro 190lph pump, Kamikaze supercharger headers, 2.5" straight back exhaust, AEM CAI, Endyn stepper pulley

Tuning at 7.5~8psi on pump gas:

That car has since fixed it's boost problem and now boosts at 10 psi. Once again.....this is Jadkar's car.

 

This brings up something that should be <U>clearly</U> said to the original poster; (and I think everybody will agree)

To do a JRSC correctly and make it worth the time and money, you have to have it tuned. That means using something like a S300 Hondata and also larger injectors. This is illegal in California!

The rising rate fuel pressure "fix" that JR uses is a stop-gap fix in order to get the BAR authorization!! Us it only as long as it takes to drive the car to the referee and get your sticker. Then drive straight home to change the ECU and such.

Wes

 

WOW!!...

thanks for all the input. My head is somewhat spinning.. but thats not a bad thing. this is why i have become addicted to this websight! So much knowledge and a willingness to share it. Even if some people disagree.. its all good.

Now i have to make a big decision to make. I am going to buy a mototr in the next week or 2. Do i try and by a block and get the parts that i WANT in there.. or just buy a stock mototr from hmototrs.

I think i still want to supercharge what ever mottor i decide to get!! Actually.. i know i want to.

What kind of gas mileage do you think i will get with a b18c and a jrsc @ 8lbs?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eleos1177 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now i have to make a big decision to make. I am going to buy a mototr in the next week or 2. Do i try and by a block and get the parts that i WANT in there.. or just buy a stock mototr from hmototrs.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Price it all out and decide according to your budget.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eleos1177 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What kind of gas mileage do you think i will get with a b18c and a jrsc @ 8lbs?</TD></TR></TABLE>


It all depends on your driving habits.

And there are alot of other variables.

EX: motor choice, quality of gas, how well tuned you are.

The general rule of thumb is, if you stay out of boost you will have great gas mileage. Damn near stock.

Trust me, take time to read the thread I gave a link to earlier.

It will answer alot of your questions and more.

 

SC's do not get good gas milage.

Turbo's can get somewhat better milage. Some that run multiple fuel maps can get great milage on the highway.

SC owns when it comes to tourqe and hp under 3000rpm (which is all you really need for a DD cuising around town).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88 rex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SC's do not get good gas milage.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats a crock of **** if i ever heard one.


i got like 3-5 more mpg after installing my blower.... and so did a few people that i know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by STREETWERKZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thats a crock of **** if i ever heard one.


i got like 3-5 more mpg after installing my blower.... and so did a few people that i know. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that doesnt make any sense..thats like saying i got more mpg with the air conditioning on.. ??