So I was just sitting around and thinking and I came to wonder why have they never put a spoiler over the front wheels order to create more downforce in the front? I realize that this is the job of the front lip spoiler and the shape of the car creates more downforce than appendage, etc..., but race cars can never seem to have enough downforce. Hypothetically wouldn't it be possible to create a spoiler that went over the front wheels, maybe even connected directly to the struts or something?

maybe im so way off... but someone educate me.


and i attached a picture of what i'm talking about...

 

Someone already beat you to that.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/audir8-01-3.html

You know how low and high pressure works ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by variablevalve &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but race cars can never seem to have enough downforce.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can't say for sure, but I'd think it would start to limit your top speed.

 

There is alot fo things you missed but that enzo body you choped has plenty of front downforce aids.

 

that's what's called a "canard."

it's usually placed on the bumper or whereever is fit for the given application.

but whether they're used or not depends on the rules of the series in question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that's what's called a "canard."

it's usually placed on the bumper or whereever is fit for the given application.

but whether they're used or not depends on the rules of the series in question.</TD></TR></TABLE>


^ Also sometimes there vents placed on the roof of the fender right over the spinnning front wheels this is to reduce lift, On the Enzo the fender line over laps the door also releasing high pressure air.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Someone already beat you to that.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/audir8-01-3.html

You know how low and high pressure works ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

not quite. thats a front diffuser. he was saying spoiler but he meant wing and yes someone has done that before:








im no johnny mac, and i dont pretend like i know half as much as he does, but some of the stuff you guys are saying in here is wayyyyy off.

 

also to the original poster. the front of the car contcats the cleanest most undisturbed air. therefore to create downforce at the front you dont need that much effort. for example if you need some huge wing to get x amount of rear downforce, you can balance the front with only small canards.

 

and also if you would look closeley at the enzo it does have a variation of the same type of wing as the jaguar that i posted up does.

also the orginal poster mentioned attaching it directly to the suspension. that is a great idea, but it is such a great idea that it was outlawed almost immediatley after people started adding downforce to cars. designing suspension that works well when the car weighs 2000lbs as well as when downforce is applied and the suspension feels the weight of 3000 lbs is the name of the game. if you can attach directly to the uprights, then the suspension doesnt have to be designed to work with varying degreees of downforce.

also it would ultimatley lead to the cars going too fast. racing officials are allways trying to slow cars down

 

also, i had some more over exagerated pics from another old jaguar car where the wing sat like 10 inches off of the "hood" of the car. they went away from that design for obvious reasons

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not quite. thats a front diffuser. he was saying spoiler but he meant wing and yes someone has done that before:
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didnt call it a wing did I ? Dont talk to me like I'm stupid okay?

They both help increase downforce which is the IDEA of the topic dont matter what you have to use.

That closed cocpit prototype car front wing isnt really applicable to a road car like a Civic or/ and NSX.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didnt call it a wing did I ? Dont talk to me like I'm stupid okay?

They both help increase downforce which is the IDEA of the topic dont matter what you have to use.

That closed cocpit prototype car front wing isnt really applicable to a road car like a Civic or/ and NSX.</TD></TR></TABLE>

dont get your panties all in a wad kiddo. he said spoiler but meant wing(meaning the original poster. as in, not you). you showed a front diffuser which is neither. period. sure it helps add downforce in the front but so do several other devices that are not wings or spoilers and i wouldnt go lumping them all into the same category.

and the wing on that jaguar may not relate to a civic but he was refering to an enzo and it is applicable there.

 

and also, i dont think that what i said was that sarcastic. i think i may have failed to make it obvious when i stopped talking about your qoute and when i started talking about jis qoute. regardless, you response to the original poster sounded pretty rude.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you know how high and low pressure works</TD></TR></TABLE>

do you understand the difference between a front diffuser and a wing/spoiler?




Modified by Mr.E.G. at 3:38 PM 5/7/2006

 

I believe this was factory optional equipment in the early eighties. It's just plain fugly too. Most modern supercars don't even need rear wings let alone front because all of their downforce is generated by the shape of the underbody panels.

 

thats hot

its hard to simplify anything aerodynamic into a general statement, but i will for the sake of conversation:

wings cause drag which means no dice on going well over 200 mph. since most modern supercars are committed to going over 200 mph they generally shoot for getting thier downforce form underbody work.

a good example would be the maclaren f1. it made a fair amount fo downforce without a rear wing, but when they took it to the track they added a wing. with the wing there is no way it could still go 240+ but they needed the downforce for the corners.

 

there seems to be quite the heated conversation going on about this

Thanks Mr. E.G. for the great info

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and also, i dont think that what i said was that sarcastic. i think i may have failed to make it obvious when i stopped talking about your qoute and when i started talking about jis qoute. regardless, you response to the original poster sounded pretty rude.

do you understand the difference between a front diffuser and a wing/spoiler?


Modified by Mr.E.G. at 3:38 PM 5/7/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>


You gonna keep comming in here acting like you know it all throwing '' kiddo and asking me what this and that means'' look I dont play that ****, I'll just ignore you.

All your doing is explaining the basics, its useless.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

VariableValve the Enzo you chopped is really what Ferrari wanted as an F1 car [i] on the road [i] [b]How does Formula 1 designers increase front end down force? I'll give you a hint



Also theres the front splitter alot of the guys in this section use this, this guy from em30performance has a 3 page article that explains it well and also talks about the venturi.

http://e30m3performance.com/my...r.htm

 

dude, i dont see what your problem is. the guy asked a question. you responded like kind of a smartass and incorrectly. all i said was "not quite". i didnt say, "you're wrong you dumb mother ******" or anything like that. i then said "he said spoiler but he meant wing" and i can see how i should have worded it better so that you didnt think i was talking about you. i was referring to the original poster. that should be obvious now. i appologize for any misunderstanding.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You gonna keep comming in here acting like you know it all throwing '' kiddo and asking me what this and that means'' look I dont play that ****, I'll just ignore you.

All your doing is explaining the basics, its useless.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

im not acting like i know it all. i even went so far as to say...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

im no johnny mac, and i dont pretend like i know half as much as he does, but some of the stuff you guys are saying in here is wayyyyy off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i know my limitations, and i dont profess to be some all knowing aerodynamics genius. maybe i am just explaining the basics but at least im explaining them right.

as we all know aerodynamics are not well understood by all. really think about it. if the original poster doesnt know everything about aerodynamics and you post a link to some pics of a front diffusor, is it really clearing anything up for him? maybe if you had said "this is what is commonly used instead". but no. you decided to say, "someone beat you to it".

additionally you asked if the front mounted wing that i posted an example of applyed to a civic. does a a front underbody diffuser that vents out of the side of a lemans car apply to a civic? i dont think so.

here is a pic of the underbody of an enzo:



you can see a front diffusor going into each front wheel. however this is not even close to the pics that your provided. i dont think the original poster would probably be able to look at the pics you provided and then look at this pic and see the correlation between the two.

as far as my calling you kiddo and so forth, i was simply trying to difuse the situation with a little sarcasm. instead of saying expletive you or something like that, i just said dont get your panties in a wad, etc.

so if you are aware of something that i have said that is incorrect, which is more than possible, please feel free to point it out and i will correct myself/ appologize for the innacuracy. but if you're just pissy because i was sarcasrtic to you, or because i pointed out something that said that wasnt entirely accurate, then cry me a ******* river.