Okay

First - the rear brakes on the EX and Si - I'm almost 100% positive there is no difference in them - so that clears that out of the discussion unless someone has evidence otherwise

Second - the front brakes on the EX vs the Si -
• to my knowledge the rotor on the EX is 10.5" and the Si is 11.5" (or 12")
• regardless the EX rotor is smaller than the Si rotor

•• Main Question - Is the caliper on th EX and Si the same?

••• Would I be able to swap JUST the Si rotor onto an EX

Thanks in advance

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SeanJohn1802 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay

First - the rear brakes on the EX and Si - I'm almost 100% positive there is no difference in them - so that clears that out of the discussion unless someone has evidence otherwise

Second - the front brakes on the EX vs the Si -
• to my knowledge the rotor on the EX is 10.5" and the Si is 11.5" (or 12")
• regardless the EX rotor is smaller than the Si rotor

•• Main Question - Is the caliper on th EX and Si the same?

••• Would I be able to swap JUST the Si rotor onto an EX

Thanks in advance </TD></TR></TABLE>

Or the smarter and better choice... Wait until a company like Porterfield or Hawk make a carbon brake pad (which they will) for the non-Si and buy that.

Unless you are a SERIOUS road course (HPDE) *****, the larger brakes will serve no purpose other than heat dissipation. And even then I'm sure you'd realize that brake fluid should be updated to one with a higher boiling point.

Beyond that, you're just doing it to spend money that you have burning a hole in your pocket... In other words, bling, bling.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or the smarter and better choice... Wait until a company like Porterfield or Hawk make a carbon brake pad (which they will) for the non-Si and buy that.

Unless you are a SERIOUS road course (HPDE) *****, the larger brakes will serve no purpose other than heat dissipation. And even then I'm sure you'd realize that brake fluid should be updated to one with a higher boiling point.

Beyond that, you're just doing it to spend money that you have burning a hole in your pocket... In other words, bling, bling. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well.. thanks for the smart *** reply.. appreciate it

i wasn't looking to necessarily swap to the Si rotor.. because that'd just definately be a waste of money. was looking more to know if the caliper was te same size. because if thats the case, i was looking into a 12" rotor (or there abouts) with an alumnium hub (for heat dissipation) and to shed weight. so really i want to do is swap rotors/pads/brake lines

but thats okay that you took my question out of context and didn't really answer it

 

I don't know the answer to your question, I guess I'd have to look into it myself as well. But a few things to think about...

Even if the calipers are the same, if you switched to the larger rotor, the mounting would definitely be different and you'd have to fab up some kind of adapter plate. since its not a kit, and your swapping Honda parts for Honda parts, I doubt that piece exists.

In my experience with custom brake setups (all be it limited) I would guess that there would be a difference in the calipers when going between disk sizes. things like clearances and contact area shape would differ to account for the change in radius. But I don't know what kind of range those parameters fall into. Since it isn't a HUGE difference in size, even if the calipers aren't exactly the same, they still might work if thats really the way you want to go.

as for the whole concept of the project, I might tend to wait for a reputable company to come out with a swap for it. That way you know its been tested and will bolt right up. Unless of course you find out that this setup works and you get a good price on some Si calipers, then rock 'em.

 

so your sayin.. your not sure but your probably willing to bet that the Si calipers might be different

however are you also saying that even if they are the same because of the Si's larger rotor.. the mounting might a tad different?

i think thats what your saying, i just want to be clear


because if thats the case, then i would need to buy a brake kit if i was going to swap to a larger size (per say thats the final choice anyway) in which case.. i could just buy a replacement EX rotor that is two piece and just get new brake fluid/pads/lines ??

 

yeah I know I guess I was kind of rambling a little bit in that last one. just thinking out loud I guess.

I took a quick look at a couple coupes in my apartment parking lot before I left for work this morning and compared to mine, and at first glance, they do look pretty much the same. Without pullin' out a ruler or anything or pulling the wheels. So you might be in luck

What I meant about the mounting was that if the caipers do turn out to be the same and you just want to up the rotor, then you'll have to buy/fab some sort of extention bracket so the caliper will fit around the bigger rotor.

I wonder if the Si and Ex have the same front uprights? that would be sweet because then that means that extension bracket already exists and you could just bolt it up. If I get a chance, maybe I can run out to the parking lot on my lunch break or something

 

The caliper, disc, and booster have been changed on the Si model.

Specs on Si:
Pad Thickness Front: 9.0-9.7mm
Pad Thickness Rear: 8.3-9.4mm
*Disc Thickness Front: 24.9-25.1mm
Disc Thickness Rear: 8.9-9.1mm

Specs on Non-Si (not including models with drums):
Pad Thickness Front: 9.5-10.5mm
Pad Thickness Rear: 8.5-9.5mm
*Disc Thickness Front: 20.9-21.1mm
Disc Thickness Rear: 8.9-9.1mm

I'm no mechanic, so I can't tell you what this means in terms of fitment and swapping compatibility, but those are the measurements from the Helms Service Manuals for Si, and Non-Si Models.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j.fuggi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The caliper, disc, and booster have been changed on the Si model.

Specs on Si:
Pad Thickness Front: 9.0-9.7mm
Pad Thickness Rear: 8.3-9.4mm
*Disc Thickness Front: 24.9-25.1mm
Disc Thickness Rear: 8.9-9.1mm

Specs on Non-Si (not including models with drums):
Pad Thickness Front: 9.5-10.5mm
Pad Thickness Rear: 8.5-9.5mm
*Disc Thickness Front: 20.9-21.1mm
Disc Thickness Rear: 8.9-9.1mm

I'm no mechanic, so I can't tell you what this means in terms of fitment and swapping compatibility, but those are the measurements from the Helms Service Manuals for Si, and Non-Si Models.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is good information

I'll see if I can decipher it lol.. hopefully someone else has that knowledge. I would expect honda93 might know since he's a pretty avid autoXer or road tracker (whatever you call what cha do lol)

thanks stallion for clearing up, we'll see whats up...

 

Again, just thinking out loud, but I think those numbers boast well for your chances of the calipers being the same. It seems like the difference in rotor thickness is matched my the difference in the pads.

 

The question is would be why does honda put a larger diameter rotor on without moving the caliper location outward to get the increase in leverage on the wheel the larger diameter will give if allowed to. Id say there is a difference in the mounting points or something to allow the caliper to work on an 11.5 to 12 inch rotor. Not sure though.

 

yeah thats what I was sayin' earlier.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stallion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What I meant about the mounting was that if the caipers do turn out to be the same and you just want to up the rotor, then you'll have to buy/fab some sort of extention bracket so the caliper will fit around the bigger rotor.

I wonder if the Si and Ex have the same front uprights? that would be sweet because then that means that extension bracket already exists and you could just bolt it up. If I get a chance, maybe I can run out to the parking lot on my lunch break or something</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j.fuggi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The caliper, disc, and booster have been changed on the Si model.

Specs on Si:
Pad Thickness Front: 9.0-9.7mm
Pad Thickness Rear: 8.3-9.4mm
*Disc Thickness Front: 24.9-25.1mm
Disc Thickness Rear: 8.9-9.1mm

Specs on Non-Si (not including models with drums):
Pad Thickness Front: 9.5-10.5mm
Pad Thickness Rear: 8.5-9.5mm
*Disc Thickness Front: 20.9-21.1mm
Disc Thickness Rear: 8.9-9.1mm</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SeanJohn1802 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is good information

I'll see if I can decipher it lol.. hopefully someone else has that knowledge. I would expect honda93 might know since he's a pretty avid autoXer or road tracker (whatever you call what cha do lol)

thanks stallion for clearing up, we'll see whats up... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Those numbers represent pad and rotor THICKNESS in manufacturing variations (probably referring to new service limits).

You need to see about rotor diameters and also check hondapartsdeals.com for the part numbers for the calipers for the EX and Si.

Again I'll ask, what is the a reason you want to go through this kind of trouble (and expense)? If you want better braking perofrmance, seriously, wait for a high performance pad (Hawk, Porterfield, EBC, Cobalt). When they heat up you'll think you have Porsche's ceramic brake setup on the car.

Pads usually run under $100 and brake fluid with a 600* boiling point usually sells for $10. I doubt you're going to replicate the Si setup for that little coin. This was the intent of my first reply SeanJohn1802.

 

or for 715 bucks you can get a wilwood big brake kit with 4 piston calipers and 2 piece rotors

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SeanJohn1802 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay

First - the rear brakes on the EX and Si - I'm almost 100% positive there is no difference in them - so that clears that out of the discussion unless someone has evidence otherwise

Second - the front brakes on the EX vs the Si -
• to my knowledge the rotor on the EX is 10.5" and the Si is 11.5" (or 12")
• regardless the EX rotor is smaller than the Si rotor

•• Main Question - Is the caliper on th EX and Si the same?

••• Would I be able to swap JUST the Si rotor onto an EX

Thanks in advance </TD></TR></TABLE>

a) they look the same because they are.

b) Your knowledge is lacking, or i mean searching skills is lacking. You should go straight to the source and research before you guestimate.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by automobiles.honda.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

SI - Power-Assisted Ventilated Front Disc/Solid Rear Disc Brakes 11.8 / 10.2

EX - Power-Assisted Ventilated Front Disc/Solid Rear Disc Brakes 10.3 / 10.2

DX,LX - Power-Assisted Ventilated Front Disc/Rear Drum Brakes 10.3 / 7.9

Hybrid - Power-Assisted Ventilated Front Disc/Rear Drum Brakes (in., front/rear) 10.3 / 8.7 </TD></TR></TABLE>


while your searching still, you should also look for all the other cars using a 11.8" front setup. TL and S2k come to mind.

and listen to what honda93 a search for the part # turns up some good info to ask better questions.
SI
45019-SVB-A01 CALIPER SUB-ASSY., L. $133.65
45018-SVB-A01 CALIPER SUB-ASSY., R. $133.65
51216-SNG-010 KNUCKLE, L. FR. $120.69
51211-SNG-010 KNUCKLE, R. FR. $120.69

EX
45019-SNE-A10 CALIPER SUB-ASSY., L. FR. $133.65
45018-SNE-A10 CALIPER SUB-ASSY., R. FR. $133.65
51216-SNA-010 KNUCKLE, L. FR. (ABS) $54.07
51211-SNA-010 KNUCKLE, R. FR. (ABS) $54.07

now why does the SI knuckle cost more then twice the amount of the EX's?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Again I'll ask, what is the a reason you want to go through this kind of trouble (and expense)? If you want better braking perofrmance, seriously, wait for a high performance pad (Hawk, Porterfield, EBC, Cobalt). When they heat up you'll think you have Porsche's ceramic brake setup on the car.

Pads usually run under $100 and brake fluid with a 600* boiling point usually sells for $10. I doubt you're going to replicate the Si setup for that little coin. This was the intent of my first reply SeanJohn1802.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ah, okay.. i see what your saying...

well let me just say that I read this big fat article in super street or sport compact car (one of the two) about braking. . . i was (beforing wanting to know this information) going to get some big *** big brake get with like a 12-13" rotor and two piston calipers and all that jazz...

thats when i started (i was eduated) about the dot 3,4,5 fluid .. i know i haven't mentioned that.. but i would think at this point that seems to just kind of come with the purchase of new brake pads.

I swapped (on my EM1) to brembo blanks and axxis ultimates on it.. i noticed a HUGE differnce in braking (and i was to lazy to put new dot 4 fluid in then, but i'm going to make sure that happens this time)

also talked a good amount about the stainless brake lines and the whole purpose of that is and how by just upgrading brake fluid and that should be more than enough..

i figure i'd like to get a lighter rotor though to help shed every ounce of weight, i have a goal i wanna make here... trying to shed weight were you can on performance parts and such.. i'd rather not go into it but i get what your sayin now. . .

 

Assuming you have no worn parts then there is only one "upgrade" that will make a difference and that's better pads. A high boiling point brake fluid will make no difference if you never boil the fluid with a low temp fluid. But what some people do notice after changing the brake fluid is improved response. This is just due to bleeding the brakes.

So, bottom line is - if you want better street brake performance bleed the brakes and put on a good quality pad like Porterfield, Carbotech, Cobalt or Hawk. Everything else is just bling as far as street driving is concerned.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Assuming you have no worn parts then there is only one "upgrade" that will make a difference and that's better pads. A high boiling point brake fluid will make no difference if you never boil the fluid with a low temp fluid. But what some people do notice after changing the brake fluid is improved response. This is just due to bleeding the brakes.

So, bottom line is - if you want better street brake performance bleed the brakes and put on a good quality pad like Porterfield, Carbotech, Cobalt or Hawk. Everything else is just bling as far as street driving is concerned.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for backing me up Alan.

 

well, thats great you guys

really appreciate the info.

but i'd still like to see if i can get my question answered

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SeanJohn1802 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, thats great you guys

really appreciate the info.

but i'd still like to see if i can get my question answered</TD></TR></TABLE>



No, the EX caliper and bracket WILL NOT work with the Si rotor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



No, the EX caliper and bracket WILL NOT work with the Si rotor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well, since you seem to know your ****

can i ask you this... after upgrading the brake lines/fluid/pads

i was planning on some 17x7.5 or 17x8 ... i remember reading you said you wanted to stick with 16s because if you switched rim size you'd enter a different class or something... but if it wasn't for that would you look into getting 17s?

whats your recommendation on that?

 

I'd go with a 17 x 7.5 max. For a guaranteed fit, the 17 x 7 from the Si is a no-brainer!

See, the only downside to an 8" wheel in non-competition use is that the footprint is so wide that the car may actually get worse mileage because of the increased rolling and air resistence. The car will most likely accelerate slower with an 8" or wider wheel as well unless you spend serious coin on a lightweight wheel (like an SSR Competition or a custom 3 piece Kodiak or Keizer race only wheel).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd go with a 17 x 7.5 max. For a guaranteed fit, the 17 x 7 from the Si is a no-brainer!

See, the only downside to an 8" wheel in non-competition use is that the footprint is so wide that the car may actually get worse mileage because of the increased rolling and air resistence. The car will most likely accelerate slower with an 8" or wider wheel as well unless you spend serious coin on a lightweight wheel (like an SSR Competition or a custom 3 piece Kodiak or Keizer race only wheel). </TD></TR></TABLE>

koo, thanks for ur words of wisdom bro, do appreciate it

i've actually been looking into WedsSports TC-005.. pretty light weight rim for cast, 17x7.5 = 15lbs