Wussup H-T?
Umm Iam lookin at purchasing a motor this summer. Ive decided that I wanted to put in a B16 series engine, but I'am kinda stuck in between the Type R or the SiR motor. Would I be better of putting a set of cams in the b16A or should I just get the Type R motor and call it a day. I was wondering this because the money difference between the cost of the motors differ a lot, and where I had the extra money, I would work the b16a. PLease, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

dont get a 1.6

TRUST me.

get minium GSR motor.

 

gsr of type r
b16b is ok but i will go wit a 1.8l

 

your talking about a big difference in price. A CTR is about 3 times the money that a b16a is.

 

Would a GSR really make that big of a difference?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jdmon079 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would a GSR really make that big of a difference?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes it will.. but to answer you question,.. i personally would definitely get a b16a over b16b and with all that $$ that cost to get the R.. i would change the pistons and get bigger cams and an ITR manifold

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmb18ckid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yes it will.. but to answer you question,.. i personally would definitely get a b16a over b16b and with all that $$ that cost to get the R.. i would change the pistons and get bigger cams and an ITR manifold </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what I was saying, with all that money difference, I could Work the B16a with a ton of stuff. Now that the CTR motor is prolly out the equation, its prolly between a b16a or a GSR. And thats still a pretty big price difference between the two.

 

Get A B18C to settle this or better yet, buy spoon b16b..if you like b16's that much...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todo Driving School &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get A B18C to settle this or better yet, buy spoon b16b..if you like b16's that much... </TD></TR></TABLE>

hope the spoon b16 comment was a joke.

and pertaining to the original question, get a gsr motor, you wont regret it.

 

I almost can't comment anything nice.....

If you are going to punish yourself with a 1.6L get the b16b.
you will be much happier with a 1.8 or more motor. I'll join in and say GSR

 

99-00 SIR 2 B16 swap = $2,750.
B16b = $3,750

Both of these prices are through http://www.jhpusa.com

I don't understand all the bashing on the .6. I personaly have a B16b in my car and love it, as does my roomate. I have raced gsr motors and it wasn't a contest, but everyone is gonna come out and say "Oh well my friend beat this car, and then my cousin beat his, then my brother beat the other car yadda yadda yadda.." so a gsr MUST be faster than a B16b right??

Compare the prices between the .6's, it's only a thousand dollars. With that extra grand you get:
1.) Larger throttle body
2.) Larger IM
3.) A bit better flowing head
4.) Larger cams
5.) Better valves
6.) Dual valvesprings on BOTH sides
7.) A better transmission
8.) LSD.

Add up all those things if you were to purchase AFTER you bought a B16a and you're WELL over $1,000. But don't take my advice or opinion, cuz Daryl's brother Daryl beat a B16b with a modded ZC motor.

 

Sounds like a lot of info to consider, but this is my first swap. Maybe Ill find a sweet GSR swap on H-T soon enough and just get that. I just want my lil sleeper to expletive peoples day up. Its a Ferio and its completelly stock. Iam just gonna lower it and put some Rotas. Thats it. And some paint cuz the exterior sucks. GSR sounds like an IDEA.

 

 

A CTR with a LS/GSR/ITR crank will be ripping new asses on any GSR it comes in contact with using similar Honda internals.

My CTR in my 00 Si coupe that was essentially stock would eat up GSR's in hatches. Most here are DEEPLY underestimating the amazing powerband this engine offers along with alot of down the road flexability. This engine has the absolute perfect rod stroke ratio which allows alot of beating without alot of problems. It also allows you to rev beyond any stock 1.8L. Add the 1.8 crank and you lose the R/S but you gain high compression 1.8 with a built head and a LSD with very short gearing trans. Its a win win and definatly worth the money in my opinion, especially if your one of the guys that like as much OEM honda as possible on your build like I did.


Modified by thevanitygroup at 12:48 AM 5/2/2006

 

if i were u id get an early year b16A and get a final drive. youll haul on Gsr's all day baby

 

This is the debate of the decade.
I'm in the same boat as you... getting ready to do a build on my Si.
B16 or B18?
Everyone one says B18... just like in this thread, then one guy says something else, but your modded to high f'n heaven to get the B16 to beat or compete with a B18.
B16b costs quite a bit, just about 1,200 less than a B18c5. These are both typeR. CTR vs. ITR
In my case I do not want to buy a B16 take the **** apart so I can say its as fast as a B18... that defeats the whole purpose... I'd just buy the B18 and call it a day.
The one thing no one ever says is that the B16 and B18 blocks are almost Identical if not totally.. and the only things differs in the 2 is the stroke and not the bore. The difference in the 2 engines are the heads and even that is nominal.
The B16 head is said to flow a bit better than the B18c1 and about the the same as the B18c5.
This is how I have beugn to break it down before I go into my pocket and purchase.
Drop it in and forget it = B18c5. Reason=does not respond to bolt-ons well makes great power out of the box
B16b=same as above, the little engine that could. Drop it in and forget it.
B18C1 the favorite of most... why? Cost. Response to bolt ons. Tunability and the most info along with parts.
Remember I'm just guessing as to why people feel the way they do. I could be wrong.


Modified by Furious Styles at 9:03 PM 5/1/2006

 

Most of the stuff your saying is true. Iam just tryin to figure out the best bet for myself. I dont plan on getting into any major work myself with engine b/c iam not that involved in it yet. Right now i want that drop it in and go type deal. Next year I will start to work the motor to a certain extent. Its a slow process for me cuz iam in school and only work during the summer. Its gonna be a tuff decision to either get a GSR or a b16. Depends really on what a person wants. A worked b16 sounds great tho!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Furious Styles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is the debate of the decade.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No it isnt. Not even close.

With a Honda, you need ever cc you can get. Usually the extra displacement of an engine comes with a cost. In this case, speaking of going from a b16b to a b18c1/c5, theres not much too lose. The rev limits of both engines are very close, with the C5 you get LSD just like the b16b, the engine isnt any heavier, you'll have more torque, and it will respond to mods better. To me, its a no brainer. The ONLY way id pick the 16b is if i was in some sort of stock 1.6 class.

 

Or do what I said.

-Buy a full CTR (B16B) swap for about a grand less than a ITR.
-Install a clean LS crank (which is about $300 "crank included" done buy most builders or just parts if you diy'er)
-FINALLY completely walk any stock or even SEMI built ITR setup.

Advantages are: It's cheaper, will provide considerably better HP and TQ numbers.

You'll have LS style torque, Higher than CTR style C/R ratio, a semi built head and a trans with LSD and short gears. You really cant beat that for what it would cost.

I think the choice is obvious. Most of you are clearly not looking into this enough. If this kid buys a GSR he will only momentarly be ok with its marginal power. He will then likely decide to buy some type-r cams, type-r im, type-r tb, type-r ecu, and likely even a type-r trans. At that point he will then have spent more IN TOTAL than an LS cranked CTR and he will still have a less powerful engine.

Clear your mind and except the fact the most CTR owners have made a better decision for long term modification. If staying basically stock, we'll then they still made a better decision as a CTR is still more powerful then a GSR stock for stock. Sure some have posted good peak numbers on GSR's but the CTR powerband cannot be contested and other OEM b-series other than a ITR.


Modified by thevanitygroup at 12:59 AM 5/2/2006

 

dude, for that,. He might as well just go lsvtec and save more than $1000. it's nowhere near just $300. new crank micropolished and balanced, arp rod bolts oem rods, new bearings, pistons. etc etc.. thats like $1000. and you're nowhere near OEM reliabilit

but your not including the labor to build something of that nature, or the time it'd take to do it right.. its definataly not "right out of the box" what you're doing is a custom built motor.

why buy a ctr swap or an itr swap at that point.. just search here on honda tech for a gs-r block and hydro b16 tranny, and put the dang package together yourself.

I personally would rather have a b16/gs-r head milled .010" with RM gen 2 valvetrain and used BC3+ cams than a full ITR head with oem valvetrain and cams. choose whatever block you want, on the bottom end, it'll walk a stock b16b on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Furious Styles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Drop it in and forget it = B18c5. Reason=does not respond to bolt-ons well makes great power out of the box</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is not true that the B18C5 doesn't respond to mods. It actually does quite well. Now you may not get much HP with just, say, a DC header. But this is true of virtually ANY Honda motor. However, if you get a good header (ie SMSP, RMF, etc), a set of stage 2 cams, and do some tuning, 200+WHP is not out of the question.

 

Think its possible to find a ITR swap on H-T for a really good price? I mean i would look into buying a frank motor b/c iam not that involved with these engines enough to build a b16/gsr head type motor and I dont know many people who might be able to build that type of engine. If I could get someone of a well known company to build that type of motor. I would def. go like LS/vtec with a b16 head or GSR head, camed out, with a whole vavle setup deal. Iam looking for like a engine setup where i ccould run good power stock for a while until I get enough cash to work the engine out. My friends b16B would beat a GSR all the time stock. It was pretty sweet b/c it was my first time in a Type R vehicle and it was sick. thats a big reason why I wanted to look at the CTR engine in the first place.

 

If your looking a good engine builder for ls/vtec: there's Donf (PM), Justice race engines, and Jerrybuilt.com. Any of those guys can build a ls/vtec that will be trouble free and make power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thevanitygroup &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A CTR with a LS/GSR/ITR crank will be ripping new asses on any GSR it comes in contact with using similar Honda internals.

My CTR in my 00 Si coupe that was essentially stock would eat up GSR's in hatches. Most here are DEEPLY underestimating the amazing powerband this engine offers along with alot of down the road flexability. This engine has the absolute perfect rod stroke ratio which allows alot of beating without alot of problems. It also allows you to rev beyond any stock 1.8L. Add the 1.8 crank and you lose the R/S but you gain high compression 1.8 with a built head and a LSD with very short gearing trans. Its a win win and definatly worth the money in my opinion, especially if your one of the guys that like as much OEM honda as possible on your build like I did.


Modified by thevanitygroup at 12:48 AM 5/2/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with this guy, i personally have a ctr motor stroked, cams, and a final in mah tranny. And I be in a GSR's *** like a bicycle with out a seat u feel me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clean rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">99-00 SIR 2 B16 swap = $2,750.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats pretty expensive