First of all, my name is Cadillac not becuase I came here to troll or otherwise hate on Hondas.

I used to drive a Cadillac, engine blew a rod, long story.....

Anyway, I now drive Honda Civic, so I am like you and I got a question...

Do you think that Acura is taken seriously in high end luxury car market? Why/why not?

Why is it that we are still to see an 8-cylinder powered Acura... or Honda or anything from this company? Not counting Formula one cars, obviously.

I thank you all sincerely for answering.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cadillac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First of all, my name is Cadillac not becuase I came here to troll or otherwise hate on Hondas.

I used to drive a Cadillac, engine blew a rod, long story.....

Anyway, I now drive Honda Civic, so I am like you and I got a question...

Do you think that Acura is taken seriously in high end luxury car market? Why/why not?

Why is it that we are still to see an 8-cylinder powered Acura... or Honda or anything from this company? Not counting Formula one cars, obviously.

I thank you all sincerely for answering.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Welcome to the forum I hope you can find all the help here you need.

I feel that acura is not seen as a high end luxury make but more as a mid level / entry level luxury make. First of all when I think of high end luxury really there are no japanese makes in there, and no american makes either (putting aside the fact that ford owns aston martin). Acuras are not priced high enough to be in the high end luxury categorys nor do they have the nicities that come with these cars. Lexus is getting close to this market with their new LS600h but in my opinion that car doesnt have what it takes to compete with the V12 BMWs, Mercedes, Aston Martins, and other makes in the low to mid 100k range.

As for entry to mid level luxury Acura competes very well in this category with the TSX and the TL and the new RDX and the redesigned MDX should do good as well. As for the RSX and RL the RSX is just to low end to be in a luxury car make (thus the reason the RSX is no more in 2007) and the RL is just to small and not powerful enough to warrent the price increase over the TL. Acura competes well against the Infiniti g35 Lexus IS250/350 GS 350 BMW 3 and 5 series Audi a4 and some other lowerend luxury cars but they dont have the v8 they need to compete on the high end side.

Now for the reasoning behind the lack of V8's from Honda and Acura is quite simple really. Honda has said before that they do not want to put a v8 in a car if their v6 engine can do but I really think Honda is comming around to realize that they need a v8 to remain competitive with certain vehicles. There has been many roumors that honda has been developing a v8 engine and with the next NSX being a V10 I can see a v8 comming down soon probably to be installed in the MDX Ridgeline Pilot and possibly the RL. I expect it to be a while though because designing a whole new engine takes alot of time and alot of money. Give it time Honda will make a V8 but i doubt to see it in any cheaper sporty cars in the low 30k range to compete with things such as the mustang camaro and challenger.

 

Thank you. I really appreciate your reply and effort you put into a lengthy detailed explanation.

Anyone else?

 

Plain and simple, Honda is capable of creating the amount of power needed in a smaller motor. They put a little more work into R&D and dont need to put a 350 into everything. Friggin Corvette still uses a pushrod motor for christs sake.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CompanyFlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plain and simple, Honda is capable of creating the amount of power needed in a smaller motor. They put a little more work into R&D and dont need to put a 350 into everything. Friggin Corvette still uses a pushrod motor for christs sake.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont really think this statement is 100% true. Yes honda is good at extracting alot of horsepower but what they need for certain cars is alot of torque. The RL is comparable to other v6 luxury cars such as the M35 and GS 300 but what abotu the V8 models that are only a couple of thousand over the RL it just cant compete. Lowend torque is very important for a luxury car as it is for an SUV / Truck as well. That is why honda needs and most likely is producing a V8 engine. The statement there is no replacement for displacement is 100% true.

 

I think in the near future Honda will produce a V8 just for the luxury market. I think it they should have brought a v8 in the ridgeline and the RL. i heard from a honda saleman they are dropping the price of the RL next year due to it not competing well with the class honda put it in. which is true cause for the amount of power and features you get its just not worth the price. even for a true honda person the amount you spend is too much for what you get in the RL. dont get me wrong the RL is a sweet ride. but $50+gs for that is just a little too much. id rather buy the LS430 or the LS400 for that sake. i think honda will diversify there line to become more competitive in the near future. i mean they discontinued the best car they had in the lineup that made them famous in japan the NSX. i mean it was an old model but it was one of the best performance based car in there lineup. but i tihnk honda/acura will improve there lineup to better compete in the luxury lines. i think that is the aim of all japanese manufactures. just look at what toyota/lexus is doing.

 

Everything I have heard about the RL is that they are gonna drop the price of it but at the same time they are going to make some of the features optional to make a standard and touring model, which could help some but only time will really tell.

 

There may be no replacement for displacement, but the RL is putting down 300hp in a v6 with AWD. Doesnt sound like theres anything to replace.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CompanyFlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There may be no replacement for displacement, but the RL is putting down 300hp in a v6 with AWD. Doesnt sound like theres anything to replace.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree 290hp for the RL is a good amount of hp but it makes it at a high 6200 rpm which is only 600rpm off of redline and then it only makes 256lbs/ft of torque at 5000 rpm which isnt bad but when the car itself weighs in at a little over 4000 lbs it makes it kind of hard for the engine to push all that weight relative to what you could get from a vehicle from almost the same price point that has a v8.

For example a Lexus GS430 weighs in at a little over 3700lbs has the same 300hp but makes it at 5600rpm but the real difference is the torque output which is 325lbs/ft at a low 3400 rpm which makes for alot of off the line grunt which the V6 RL cant match.

Now am I saying Honda cant make a good V6 motor that can match some of the aspects of a V8 no not really but when the technology is at a pritty even level which it is between the Acura V6 and the Lexus V8 the one with more cylinders and more displacement should always win out. I cant wait till Honda makes a small 4.0-4.6L V8 so they can compete better in the luxury market

 

To each his own, but they dont NEED a v8.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CompanyFlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To each his own, but they dont NEED a v8.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I know that and I am totally happy with a car like the Honda Fit but people in the luxury car market upgrade to a V12 for the prestige of the engine not because they need the added performance of 4 extra cylinders.

 

Torque. That's why I think they'd opt for an eight cylinder.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CmptchAV6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well I know that and I am totally happy with a car like the Honda Fit but people in the luxury car market upgrade to a V12 for the prestige of the engine not because they need the added performance of 4 extra cylinders. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scuzz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Torque. That's why I think they'd opt for an eight cylinder.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well point is there are other ways to get torque. Fro example a turbocharged 3.0L V6 will most likely make more torque than a N/A 4.5L V8 but in the luxury market the V8 will still look more appealing and luxurious because of the number 8.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CmptchAV6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes honda is good at extracting alot of horsepower but what they need for certain cars is alot of torque. The RL is comparable to other v6 luxury cars such as the M35 and GS 300 but what abotu the V8 models that are only a couple of thousand over the RL....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yet on the other hand, the Honda and Acura 6-6 cars seem to perform better than many V8 cars with which they compete, and even better than many high-end V8 cars that are beyond their price range.

Have you driven a 2006 J30 or J32 with the six speed? I think you're really in for a surprise. The tuning is excellent, and the Honda J motors are really behind the curve as far as the development of high tech heads. Given a more modern head design, they would be even more impressive.

I have a 2006 Accord HFP Coupe ( http://iserve.honda-tech.com/i...=6064 ). The car's a real surprise. The secondaries open at 4000 RPM and it comes on the cam at 5000 RPM. Once you learn how to manipulate this, you can get 31 miles per gallon in a fairly big car that'll still get to 60 in less than 6 seconds.

Having thus defended why Honda does not need a V8 right this moment, however, I hasten to add that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, and it's clear that they are spending development money on a V8. From watching who absconds with parts from the racing programmes, it's clear that the V8 is being seriously considered for production at some point soon.

 

Oh trust me I love hondas V6 motors and i used to own a 1999 Accord V6, and while the old Accord V6 was not nearly as powerful as the Current J30 or J32 it was an awsome motor with tons of power. But as far as higher end luxury cars like the RL most people look for cylinder count as a sort of prestige. The RL's owners may somewhat be looked down at because people who dont really know about RLs may just think that the RLs owners didnt opt for the V8. Overall Luxury cars are about excess, look at cars like the S600 or even a Rolls Royce no one needs 1/2 the features in that car let alone the V12 motors that come in them but people buy them because of the amount of excess in them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CmptchAV6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh trust me I love hondas V6 motors and i used to own a 1999 Accord V6, and while the old Accord V6 was not nearly as powerful as the Current J30 or J32 it was an awsome motor with tons of power. But as far as higher end luxury cars like the RL most people look for cylinder count as a sort of prestige. The RL's owners may somewhat be looked down at because people who dont really know about RLs may just think that the RLs owners didnt opt for the V8. Overall Luxury cars are about excess, look at cars like the S600 or even a Rolls Royce no one needs 1/2 the features in that car let alone the V12 motors that come in them but people buy them because of the amount of excess in them. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you are correct. As much as I dislike the current batch of V8's (mainly because the fall by the "need more power? put in a bigger engine" train of thought instead of investing in R&D for specific output), I feel Honda does need a V8 to compete.

A perfect example of this is the other day i was talking with a friend. She obviously had no idea about cars/engines or any of the like. However, she had stuck in her mind the Hondas in general where "not as good" because there isn't a V8. This is a common misconception. People don't know about specific output and such. All non-gearhead people know is "V8 is better then V6," be it wrong or right.


Modified by Turbo(less)DB8 at 10:30 AM 5/8/2006

 

Put in a v8 and the excuse changes to it not being an american manufacturer. You can never win with someone who makes such a simple excuse.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CompanyFlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put in a v8 and the excuse changes to it not being a German manufacturer. You can never win with someone who makes such a simple excuse.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Fixed for the luxury market. and While this will be true for some people it can definatly help Acuras prestige level to atleast offer one model with a V8