I am wondering if anyone has blocked their EGR off using something like JB Weld before? No, I don't just intend to block the EGR off with a plate under the EGR. I want to actually put JB weld(or something along that idea) in the head or right where the head meets the IM.

Now, your asking why would anyone do that right? Why does anyone buy the hondata IM insulating gaskets? Simple, to reduce heat sink in the IM. Blocking off a hole that bring hot exhaust gases into the IM and inducing a temperature rise in the IM is something I wish to get rid of. Whats the point of getting a Hondata gasket without finishing the job off right?

Yes, I have a hondata gasket and I don't actually intend to put the EGR back on at all. We will be running a p28 hondata s100 and the IM is a Euro R for those who care.. I fully intend to follow through with this, if you think its stupid, thanks and don't bother posting here. Fellow members have blocked off oil passages with hondabond and had great results and no flaming, but I have yet to see a post blocking off the EGR before it hits the IM... I just am wondering who has, what with, and where at?

My main options are to block it off at the exhaust port which would have to be 100% permanent as putting something in there will be impossible(seemingly) to remove, or I could put it at the IM entrance to the head... Option #1 should actually slightly decrease temperatures in the head as well, although it probably will be a negligible difference.

Opinions guys?

 

i might learn something here.......

and be careful to interpret my question the way it is asked......

how does blocking off the egr valve with a plate <U>not</U> stop the hot exhaust gases from getting into the intake mani? and where else do the egr gases come into (therefore heating up) the mani at?

i'm just curious, as i don't see why just blocking off the valve doesn't do the trick.

 

Chris,

The EGR valve is located on the IM itself... The valve allows hot air into the IM, but hot air is already entering the IM to get to the EGR valve.

The exhaust gases run from the 4th cylinders exhaust port back through the head and out to the IM. If you have ever seen a IM gasket you can see the 4 holes for the 4 cylinders and 1 hole to the side thats completely round. That hole allow hot exhaust gases to pass from the head to the IM. Blocking off the EGR wont stop gases from running out the head into the IM.. You have to block it off before it exits the head to attain this.

Make sense?

 

i bet you could pipe tap that hole in the head on the intake side and screw a plug into it.

If the head was off I would weld the hole shut in the exhaust port. That hole seems to be in a bad spot there and might help some flow a little in that port if it was welded and blended in.

It might even be easier to weld the intake mani at the flange since its easier to take off.

Not a bad idea though, then you could even leave the egr mounted and plugged in and nobody would know.

 

uhhh if im not horribly mistaken, that hole is for coolant, not gases

the best way to do this is go inside the head and drill the hole/tap a blocking bolt in there

 

yea, that does make sense.......i'm not very familiar with how EGR systems work. i mean, i understand the concept, but you have explained what i didn't really understand before. i see what you are saying now. i suppose that JB weld would most likely work. how big is the hole, and does it really allow that much hot air back in the mani? it seems like the extra few degrees wouldn't even be worth the time it took you to put the JB weld in......but that's just a guess. is there any info on anyone doing it to any motor (b,d,h,k series?)? if so, have they had success with it and did the IM temps really decrease that much?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">uhhh if im not horribly mistaken, that hole is for coolant, not gases

the best way to do this is go inside the head and drill the hole/tap a blocking bolt in there</TD></TR></TABLE>

Heh, your horribly mistaken... Thats 2x now this month...

That hole in the head to the IM is for gases only... Check for the hole on exhaust port #4 next time you pull off your exhaust manifold..

Now, the problem is that I know of no one doing this, or have ever heard of this... I am sure others have, and am pretty sure I wouldnt be the first to suggest such an idea... Although, I am right and am sure of it...


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChrisRicketts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how big is the hole, and does it really allow that much hot air back in the mani? it seems like the extra few degrees wouldn't even be worth the time it took you to put the JB weld in......but that's just a guess. is there any info on anyone doing it to any motor (b,d,h,k series?)? if so, have they had success with it and did the IM temps really decrease that much?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Chris, the hole is about 1/4" in diameter.. Yes, is has to let that much hot air back into the manifold as the air coming out of the exhaust is extremely hot (try touching your header after driving hard, heh.. Please dont....) Even a tiny bit of air will increase temperatures...

If this idea wouldnt be worth it, then why do people waste $75 on a IM gasket and actually net heat soak gains from it? This is just one step further... And the motor is currently in pieces, so its better to do it before I put it all together..

 

i would not use jb weld myself, i would tap and thread the hole on the head or manifold, and put a threaded plug in.

 

I welded a plug into that hole in the intake manifold. JB weld should work too. The intake manifold should not be all that hot. You will probably want to "step cure" the epoxy or it may soften and suck into the manifold the first time it is heated on the engine.

 

there is a port that comes out of the head and passes into the intake mani, the egr gases probably run 4 inches or so inside the intake mani to the egr , what i did was drill and tap my intake manifold when i had it off the car, so i no longer even have exhaust gases passing into the mani,

 

Yep but it's not a reversible solution. It could make some troubles with emission oriented areas...

 

If somebody decides to go hondata with a p28 or a p72 that eliminates this sensor, will the gases still go in?

 

Yes, the gases will flow through the head into the IM with a p28 or p72. Just the EGR wont function allowing the hot air back into the IM, but the IM will get hot causing all the air to heat up.


Well, scratch the jb weld idea... I am sure it would work, and for anyone whos tempted try it. The worst that could happen is the JB weld comes loose and allows a little air to pass into it...

I can see welding it shut as a better option and I am going to have to weld up the entire exhaust as is anyways.. But, I feel it may be smarter to tap it and honestly you could use a inner hex bolt so that you would have the ability to remove the bolt if so desired at one point in time.. Ive already had to tap the Euro R 5 times this week just to get the Fuel rail and IACV to fit on it... Hmm, wonder if I have any taps big enough? I think it will be more of an issue finding a bolt with the desired head(style of ones I speak of are located on your head already) with the right thread pitch and diameter to any tap I have that will work...

Once I do it, I will put some pictures up here explaining it all.. Im actually pretty sure the motor build I am doing will have a complete writeup.. Heres the sneak peak picture...

 

I've already planned to block the egr off at the head on my new setup... It's a good idea...

 

shoot, my head is off my car..........i guess i'll jump on the bandwagon and plug mine as well.

 

I know this may not apply to some of ya'll nor do you care but will this result in failure of emissions?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueLude94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know this may not apply to some of ya'll nor do you care but will this result in failure of emissions? </TD></TR></TABLE>


i have past mine here in ga w/s100 p72 and built engine including a blocked off egr


jtc: what brand manifold gasket did you get? when i got my hondata one back in the day, that hole was already blocked, if u wanted egr you had to drill it out in the gasket.

if i was going to do it your way, i'd go w/tapping the manifold and putting in a set screw, locktite that **** in.

 

Vinny:

I think I am going to end up putting a screw in it.. Our hondata gasket has a nice hole in it for the EGR...as I had hoped it wouldnt, but such is the case and I am glad this idea actually has some value on H-T wheras most dont...

Hey Vinny, why dont you come by and help me out? I could sure use a hand..


Modified by JTCdudeman at 4:21 AM 3/22/2006

 

I did this as well, the Home depot way. 5/8 bolt and tap

 

I just passed emissions last week with blocked EGR with no problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastludeh22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
jtc: what brand manifold gasket did you get? when i got my hondata one back in the day, that hole was already blocked, if u wanted egr you had to drill it out in the gasket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

.........oh snap! i forgot that my hondata gasket did have that hole blocked off! cool, now i don't need to worry about it.

 

Just showing off:


It should be easy to use an NPT tap and a standard threaded plug to do the same thing.

 

jb weld is a bad idea.. jb weld doesnt hold up to heat well at all.. put a big glob of jb weld some where on the exhaust under the oil pan and see what happens to it, the heat from the exhaust at that point isnt as nearly as hot as the actual exhaust gases that pass through that hole.

basically jb weld will turn into a powder when exposed to extreme heat

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mykizism &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">jb weld is a bad idea.. jb weld doesnt hold up to heat well at all..</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think epoxy would work fine. It only has to stand up to engine temperatures (~100C), not exhaust temperatures. If the EGR port is plugged, there would be no flow of exhaust gasses, and pushing exhaust gasses through small water cooled alumminum passages would significantly reduce their temperature before they reached the epoxy anyway.

 

doubtful that small surface area of jb weld vs a hot engine + exhaust gases beating on that jb weld will eat away at that jb weld in no time.. trust me on that

jb weld is junk its only good for stuff thats in your home, small plastics or metal that isnt exposed to harsh environment regardless of what the package says it can do..