<FONT SIZE="2">ORIGINAL THREAD, PLEASE READ FIRST</FONT>:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1564356

<FONT SIZE="2">Now, for the updates</FONT>:

Made a new thread since alot changed and figured it'd a "fresh" start. So after reviewing the o.g. thread, here's the status:

1. Checked for spark, all four plugs are sparking - so ignition is ruled out.
2. When the key is turned twice (IGN 2), the fuel pump comes on & my air / fuel gauge goes from all the way lean (IGN 1) to all the way rich (so obviously fuel is getting into the motor) - so fuel is ruled out.
3. Air - its there, duh. - so air is ruled out.

So just going by these three things, I'm so lost. I'd be the same as drenching a hillside with lighter fluid and throwing a match on it, just to watch absolutely nothing burn. The only other things I can think of is:

1. It sat for 4 months, so maybe the gas went bad (it has 91 in it).
2. The cam gear was set at 2 degrees advanced when the car ran (AEM adj. cam gear), we adjusted it by loosening the 3 bolts and moving it to 0. Maybe this affects it somehow?

Other than that, I might have a civic that defies the laws of mechanics / physics / etc. So..any ideas of why it wouldn't start?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sk8shorty012 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">]2. When the key is turned twice (IGN 2), the fuel pump comes on & my air / fuel gauge goes from all the way lean (IGN 1) to all the way rich (so obviously fuel is getting into the motor) - so fuel is ruled out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That doesnt mean ****. Unless the car is on the o2 sensor wont read air fuel unless the motor is running. Even if you had a wideband. What your seeing is power just going to your a/f ratio.

Do this, put in stock injectors, take out the resistor box, put in a stock ecu and see what happens.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That doesnt mean ****. Unless the car is on the o2 sensor wont read air fuel unless the motor is running. Even if you had a wideband. What your seeing is power just going to your a/f ratio.

Do this, put in stock injectors, take out the resistor box, put in a stock ecu and see what happens. </TD></TR></TABLE>

is there a way to test for fuel flow without replacing all that ****?

**EDIT** - also, the power for the a/f gauge is via the cigarette lighter hot wire, which turns on at IGN1, so the gauge is getting power with 1 click, so then it'd go to full rich at IGN2 when the fuel pump comes on, it sounds logical...

 

Do you even have a wideband? Just to let you know my wideband doesnt let me know what my readings are when the car is off, i want to know which you have to let you know the readings when the cars not starting.

You could check the resistance of the injectors and see if there good and what not but you could be having problems from your resistor box to your injectors since you had the injectors cleaned. Im not saying that is your problem its all could be. Is there any codes?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you even have a wideband? Just to let you know my wideband doesnt let me know what my readings are when the car is off, i want to know which you have to let you know the readings when the cars not starting.

You could check the resistance of the injectors and see if there good and what not but you could be having problems from your resistor box to your injectors since you had the injectors cleaned. Im not saying that is your problem its all could be. Is there any codes? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, I have a wideband its the LC-1 by innovate motorsport.
here, just a couple general questions (before I go to rip all that **** apart).
would it have any affect with the injectors being rx7 (mazda), the resistor box being (older honda/acura) and the clips being integra (90-93 I think)...

^^ for instance, would I need the resistor box of rx7 of a certain set of clips or does it not matter as long as everything fits?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That doesnt mean ****. Unless the car is on the o2 sensor wont read air fuel unless the motor is running. Even if you had a wideband. What your seeing is power just going to your a/f ratio.

Do this, put in stock injectors, take out the resistor box, put in a stock ecu and see what happens. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what i always do. If all else falls go back to stock and see if **** works. I have done that for a few friends with weird wiring issues. Why didn't you just use honda injector equipment aftermarket or OEM. You did alot of hacking that didn't seem nessecary. I think you problem maybe with those injectors and resistor box, I have seen this before in my buddies CRX.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboxsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats what i always do. If all else falls go back to stock and see if **** works. I have done that for a few friends with weird wiring issues. Why didn't you just use honda injector equipment aftermarket or OEM. You did alot of hacking that didn't seem nessecary. I think you problem maybe with those injectors and resistor box, I have seen this before in my buddies CRX. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's been done before. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=730383. The only reason I went with rx7 injectors is because I got them for $90 (which included being sent to cleaning / balancing), which is damn cheap considering what new ones cost The clips shouldn't matter, just as long as they fit on the injector. But as far as the resistor box, are you saying one of an rx7 is needed and the honda/acura one wont work?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sk8shorty012 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's been done before. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=730383. The only reason I went with rx7 injectors is because I got them for $90 (which included being sent to cleaning / balancing), which is damn cheap considering what new ones cost The clips shouldn't matter, just as long as they fit on the injector. But as far as the resistor box, are you saying one of an rx7 is needed and the honda/acura one wont work?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh i know it has been done I just didn't know why. But now i see $90 is a great price especially with the cleaning and balancing. I don't know much about rx7 injectors, but I take it they are peak/hold which is why you are using the resistor box.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboxsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Oh i know it has I just didn't know why. But now i see $90 is a great price especially with the cleaning and balancing. I don't know much about rx7 injectors, but I take it they are peak/hold which is why you are using the resistor box. I </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmm, im almost thinking the honda/acura resistor box is the PROBLEM, because isn't it set for a certain amount of ohms? (please correct me if im wrong). Maybe the rx7 resistor pack is needed?

 

i would say the honda/acura one is fine, just as long as your ecu is seeing the correct resistance from the injectors(p/h=low resistance, sat=high resistance), if not try the rx7 box . But you should still start in my opinion. I accidently had peak/hold (obd0) injectors in my obd1 car with obd1 ecu and it ran ok till high rpms then i would get a cel 16 for injectors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboxsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would say the honda/acura one is fine, just as long as your ecu is seeing the correct resistance from the injectors(p/h=low resistance, sat=high resistance), if not try the rx7 box . But you should still start in my opinion. I accidently had peak/hold (obd0) injectors in my obd1 car with obd1 ecu and it ran ok till high rpms then i would get a cel 16 for injectors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

hmmm..well then why won't it start?

 

I may have missed it between your two threads, but does your car even crank?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboxsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I may have missed it between your two threads, but does your car even crank?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It cranks, but wont turn over completely. It ALMOST turns over as you can hear the exhaust some times... hold up like 5 minutes and ill get you a short vid clip of what it sounds like...

 

Sounds good! So it cranks, but are you sure you aren't dumping in too much fuel or maybe nothing at all? Can you smell gas at the exhaust or when you pull the plugs? And have you checked grounds?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboxsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds good! So it cranks, but are you sure you aren't dumping in too much fuel or maybe nothing at all? Can you smell gas at the exhaust or when you pull the plugs? And have you checked grounds?</TD></TR></TABLE>

We can smell gas, thats for sure. It's not too much, if anything it sounds like the motor is begging for something, er like needs something to get it going - grounds are solid, i spent all day yesterday double-checking em. hold for vid...

 

**Sound Clip Below - Right Click "target save as"**

http://www.socaltuners.com/con...t.wav

 

What about you ECU what are you running and have you tried a different known working one?


Modified by turboxsi at 9:43 PM 3/20/2006

 

Did you do anything to the head?

I sent a head off to a machine shop once, when I got it back, I slapped it on and forgot to adjust the valves. It would not build compression to make the car kick over. It just kept cranking and cranking.........

Fuel, Spark, air, timing, compression. These make the car go, if it won't go, make sure all of these work.

 

^^ good point have you done a compression test? Have that conversion harness tested! My buddy got one and it was defective and was the reason the car would crank but not start. We took out the conversion harness put a stock ecu just to see if the car would turn over and it did. We still haven't figured out what was wrong with the harness but it was for an obd0-&gt;obb1 and it was messed up. So give that a try and let me know.


Modified by turboxsi at 5:35 PM 3/20/2006

 

From the sound of your clip it sounds like no compression is being made. Your sure the timing belt is on correctly? Do you have a compression testor? If so test it and do the valves.

 

ICM ?? Try one of your friends.

 

yet another update.

Picked up the resistor box of the rx7, installed it. Engine still doesn't turn over. Sounds different than the sound clip listed, but no real change. I've tested them and they're physically firing. Maybe its something with the setup:

RX7 Resistor Box - Pulled from an 87 (same year as injectors)
460cc RX7 injectors - Cleaned / Balanced etc.
Injector clips - from a 90-93 Integra (I believe so)

Im running uberdata and the basemap is correct, so as of now, im lost.

 

Air, fuel, compression and a properly timed spark are needed. Which one(s) are you missing?

Pulling a plug to check for spark may tell you that you have "a" spark...but in relation to when it should be sparking, is it? You need a timing light to check.

Even though you hear the fuel pump come on, it means nothing if the ECU isn't opening the injectors. Use some noid lights for this. A fuel pressure gauge would also be handy here to ensure the pump is working.

To check compression, you need a compression gauge. If you can get ahold of a leakdown gauge, do that too.

Did you recently do a t-belt job or any work that involved its removal and installation?

Can you get some stock injectors and stock ECU to try that? Someone mentioned that earlier - it's a good idea to try.

How sure are you that the Uberdata base map was scaled for 460cc injectors?

And take off those Nology Hotwires, please. They aren't doing you any good.

 

**UPDATE**

throwing CEL #16 Fuel Injector System defective circuit or unplugged / defective fuel injector


Modified by sk8shorty012 at 11:06 AM 3/21/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sk8shorty012 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">**UPDATE**

throwing CEL #16 Fuel Injector System defective circuit or unplugged / defective fuel injector


Modified by sk8shorty012 at 11:06 AM 3/21/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would swap in working injectors and a stock ecu just to get things started. I figured that was going to be your problem but others have done it so i tried to rule that out. You are most likely getting the wrong resistance that a p28 will be looking for from the injectors, thus you are getting that code.

Well you know what your problem is atleast. You have air, spark, but something is obiviously wrong with you injector wiring or resistor box wiring or injectors themselves. Swap them out for some OEM saturated or 310 Rcs (which will be fine) and perhaps a stock ecu (your uberdata could be messed up) to see if you can even get the engine to turnover.