Review of Blizzak LM-25
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From: Chicago
Re: Review of Blizzak LM-25 (schlit)
All winter tires are not created equal. As I posted numerous times last summer and fall (here and here and here and here and here and here and here):
The Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 is a category (b) tire, as described above. And, as I noted, the tires in category (b) don't provide as much traction on snow and ice as the category (a) tires, but they make up for it by providing a decent ride when the temperatures are warmer (as you also noticed). And the category (a) tires are less expensive, priced about the same as many all-season tires. I'll disagree with you by noting that the category (b) tires do provide better traction on snow and ice than an all-season tire. Maybe you were expecting the snow traction of a category (a) tire in snow, and instead you got the snow traction of a category (b) tire. If you were looking for the best snow and ice traction, you would have been better off choosing a tire from category (a), like the Blizzak WS-50 or Blizzak REVO 1, which offer the multi-cell technology to soak up melted snow and ice to give greater traction on those surfaces. As noted on the Tire Rack website:
Here is a photo of the Bridgestone Blizzak REVO 1:
Here is a photo of the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50:
Then again, there is also a matter of physics. Even though category (a) tires will provide you MUCH better traction than all-season tires, you're still driving on snow or ice, and you can't expect to be able to drive them at the same speeds as when the roads are dry.
Originally Posted by nsxtasy
There are a lot of excellent winter tires on the market. They tend to break down into two groups:
a) tires that have the very best traction on snow and ice, but have so-so ride and handling on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, Dunlop Graspic DS-2, and Michelin X-Ice. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "studless ice and snow tires".)
b) tires that have good traction on snow and ice and in cold, although not quite as good as the previous group, but they also have very good ride and handling characteristics on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22, Dunlop Winter Sport M3, and the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "performance winter tires".)
The choice between these two categories depends on the climate in your area, how much highway driving you do in the winter, how much you care about ultimate snow/ice grip versus ride comfort, whether you have another vehicle to use in the worst of winter, etc. Oh, and the tires in category (a) are usually significantly less expensive than category (b), which may be important. For example, I want the best snow/ice traction and I don't mind sacrificing some ride comfort and handling for those three months a year (mid-December to mid-March around here), and winter weather here in Chicago can be fairly nasty, so I have category (a) tires. But your priorities may be different, and you might be better off getting the category (b) tires.
a) tires that have the very best traction on snow and ice, but have so-so ride and handling on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, Dunlop Graspic DS-2, and Michelin X-Ice. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "studless ice and snow tires".)
b) tires that have good traction on snow and ice and in cold, although not quite as good as the previous group, but they also have very good ride and handling characteristics on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22, Dunlop Winter Sport M3, and the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "performance winter tires".)
The choice between these two categories depends on the climate in your area, how much highway driving you do in the winter, how much you care about ultimate snow/ice grip versus ride comfort, whether you have another vehicle to use in the worst of winter, etc. Oh, and the tires in category (a) are usually significantly less expensive than category (b), which may be important. For example, I want the best snow/ice traction and I don't mind sacrificing some ride comfort and handling for those three months a year (mid-December to mid-March around here), and winter weather here in Chicago can be fairly nasty, so I have category (a) tires. But your priorities may be different, and you might be better off getting the category (b) tires.
Originally Posted by Tire Rack
The Blizzak REVO 1 tread compound features "bite particles" to enhance traction on ice, slush and packed snow that are imbedded in Bridgestone's Tube Multicell Compound. The Tube Multicell Compound features small pores to reduce the risk of slipping on the thin surface film of water that makes winter driving so dangerous. The Blizzak REVO 1 in 65- and 60-series features a symmetric tread design while its lower profile and typically wider 55- and 45-seried sized tires feature a directional tread design. Both of these tread designs use circumferential and lateral flow-through grooves to help maintain good traction on wet and slush-covered roads while their 3-Dimensional zig-zag sipes and independent tread blocks provide the edges needed to help bite into snow. Combined, this allows the Blizzak REVO 1 winter radial to approach the traction provided by a studded tire on ice... without the use of studs.
NOTE: The first 55% of the Blizzak REVO 1 tread depth features the Tube Multicell Compound while the remaining 45% features a standard winter tire compound.
NOTE: The first 55% of the Blizzak REVO 1 tread depth features the Tube Multicell Compound while the remaining 45% features a standard winter tire compound.
Here is a photo of the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50:
Then again, there is also a matter of physics. Even though category (a) tires will provide you MUCH better traction than all-season tires, you're still driving on snow or ice, and you can't expect to be able to drive them at the same speeds as when the roads are dry.
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From: Chicago
Re: Review of Blizzak LM-25 (schlit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've tried most of the tires I recommend, on my own cars as well as others. And the studless Blizzak winter tires are much, much, MUCH better on snow and ice than the BFG Traction T/A in its various iterations (which are all fairly crappy all-season tires as all-seasons go, BTW - not surprising since they're not their best all-season tire - which is why they're cheap and the g-Force T/A KDWS is not).
However, your personal attack on me and your talk of "Tire Rack propaganda" (and your gross ignorance about the Tire Rack, with whom I have no affiliation) tell me that you're more interested in going off on a rant than on trying to learn why your PERCEPTION doesn't jive with what you THINK others have said.
I don't bother arguing with people with an "agenda" and you certainly qualify. I answered your question. If you want to use a crappy BFG or some other crappy tire, and you want to think it's the same as the best winter tire on snow and ice (which is not what you bought), you're welcome to do so. If you just want to rant, then go to http://www.iliketorant.com.
Modified by nsxtasy at 1:33 PM 2/27/2006
</TD></TR></TABLE>I've tried most of the tires I recommend, on my own cars as well as others. And the studless Blizzak winter tires are much, much, MUCH better on snow and ice than the BFG Traction T/A in its various iterations (which are all fairly crappy all-season tires as all-seasons go, BTW - not surprising since they're not their best all-season tire - which is why they're cheap and the g-Force T/A KDWS is not).
However, your personal attack on me and your talk of "Tire Rack propaganda" (and your gross ignorance about the Tire Rack, with whom I have no affiliation) tell me that you're more interested in going off on a rant than on trying to learn why your PERCEPTION doesn't jive with what you THINK others have said.
I don't bother arguing with people with an "agenda" and you certainly qualify. I answered your question. If you want to use a crappy BFG or some other crappy tire, and you want to think it's the same as the best winter tire on snow and ice (which is not what you bought), you're welcome to do so. If you just want to rant, then go to http://www.iliketorant.com.
Modified by nsxtasy at 1:33 PM 2/27/2006
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Re: Review of Blizzak LM-25 (schlit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It shouldnt be an arguement as you have made this to be.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, as YOU made this to be. You're the one spewing out insults, attacking me, attacking the Tire Rack. And you're still doing it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hopefully, people researching on H-T will see a review of the tire from someone not trying to sell it to them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong again. Obviously you prefer to make up lies as part of your rants, like claiming that I'm trying to sell tires to someone, instead of considering facts. Here is a very simple fact: I don't sell tires. I don't work for any tire dealers or manufacturers, I never have, and I have no financial interest in what tires anyone buys. I provide advice, strictly in order to help others, and that advice is based on what a person's particular needs are. That's why I recommend so many different brands of tires, depending on those needs; some brands are better at some things than others. And I mention whatever tire dealer is the cheapest - often the Tire Rack, but sometimes other places (e.g. Edge Racing for the DZ101) when their prices are lower, and other places (e.g. Vulcan, Edge, and Discount Tire) when I recommend a brand of tire that the Tire Rack doesn't sell (e.g. Falken, Hankook, Toyo).
No, as YOU made this to be. You're the one spewing out insults, attacking me, attacking the Tire Rack. And you're still doing it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hopefully, people researching on H-T will see a review of the tire from someone not trying to sell it to them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong again. Obviously you prefer to make up lies as part of your rants, like claiming that I'm trying to sell tires to someone, instead of considering facts. Here is a very simple fact: I don't sell tires. I don't work for any tire dealers or manufacturers, I never have, and I have no financial interest in what tires anyone buys. I provide advice, strictly in order to help others, and that advice is based on what a person's particular needs are. That's why I recommend so many different brands of tires, depending on those needs; some brands are better at some things than others. And I mention whatever tire dealer is the cheapest - often the Tire Rack, but sometimes other places (e.g. Edge Racing for the DZ101) when their prices are lower, and other places (e.g. Vulcan, Edge, and Discount Tire) when I recommend a brand of tire that the Tire Rack doesn't sell (e.g. Falken, Hankook, Toyo).
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From: Wapakoneta, ohio, USA
Re: Review of Blizzak LM-25 (schlit)
i was actually going to start a thread regaurding the BFgoodrich T/A traction tire.
i was looking for a set of winter tires in december. i called around and no one locally had any, but on place mentioned the BFgoodrich. i looked into it on a few websites and saw that the tire had very good reviews for snow performance. i thought to my self, no one around has snow tires so is it really neccesary or is it overkill? instead of getting another set of wheels so i could have one set of summer tires and another set of winter tires i just went with the allseasons. after the first snow i was definatly impressed with the performance of the bfgoodrich.
although i have never had true snow tires i was impressed with how this tires preformed in the snow. i guess what im trying to say is that i feel you are comparing one of the best all season tires (as far as snow) with one of the lower grade snow tires. i does not surprise me that the two would almost perform equally.
i was looking for a set of winter tires in december. i called around and no one locally had any, but on place mentioned the BFgoodrich. i looked into it on a few websites and saw that the tire had very good reviews for snow performance. i thought to my self, no one around has snow tires so is it really neccesary or is it overkill? instead of getting another set of wheels so i could have one set of summer tires and another set of winter tires i just went with the allseasons. after the first snow i was definatly impressed with the performance of the bfgoodrich.
although i have never had true snow tires i was impressed with how this tires preformed in the snow. i guess what im trying to say is that i feel you are comparing one of the best all season tires (as far as snow) with one of the lower grade snow tires. i does not surprise me that the two would almost perform equally.
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From: ottawa,, top of the map
Re: Review of Blizzak LM-25 (coot_er)
*These comments are general ones and not based spefically at someone*
I love my winter tires, I just drove 500km partly through a blizzard. They kick ***.
Winter tires are not meant to be a vast improvement. At most it's something like 25% accross various catagories from what I have read. It does not allow you drive super fast in the winter. When going through very hard back snow, like inbetween lanes on a highway, winter tires don't offer much.
Winter tires don't cost as much as your think as every mile you drive on them saves you a mile on your other tires.
I will make this comment: Your judgment may be slightly bias as it has probably been a year since you drove all seasons in the winter and you were probably expecting a lot more out of your winters. I am just saying it *may be* that.
As for who would get winter tires for a civic? I think it should be mandatory for all passenger vehicles where I come from. But that is just my opinion.
Lastly if you want to save money do what I do. Look in the classfieds in the early fall for used winters. I got a set of winters that had been used for 1500mi for about $120 US. You would be impressed what you can find.
To the OP, your opinions are valued. As are other's.
Cheers.
I love my winter tires, I just drove 500km partly through a blizzard. They kick ***.
Winter tires are not meant to be a vast improvement. At most it's something like 25% accross various catagories from what I have read. It does not allow you drive super fast in the winter. When going through very hard back snow, like inbetween lanes on a highway, winter tires don't offer much.
Winter tires don't cost as much as your think as every mile you drive on them saves you a mile on your other tires.
I will make this comment: Your judgment may be slightly bias as it has probably been a year since you drove all seasons in the winter and you were probably expecting a lot more out of your winters. I am just saying it *may be* that.
As for who would get winter tires for a civic? I think it should be mandatory for all passenger vehicles where I come from. But that is just my opinion.
Lastly if you want to save money do what I do. Look in the classfieds in the early fall for used winters. I got a set of winters that had been used for 1500mi for about $120 US. You would be impressed what you can find.
To the OP, your opinions are valued. As are other's.
Cheers.
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From: ottawa,, top of the map
Re: Review of Blizzak LM-25 (schlit)
Agreed, my last all seasons were horrid. It was about 0F last night and most of it was just wet road with a bit of snow. These tires I have on now seem to be particulary well at dealing with that. I am sure my acceleration and braking didn't improve too much but it just *seems* to feel better. Kind of hard to describe. Perhaps I to am also bias.
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Re: Review of Blizzak LM-25 (schlit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by coot_er »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">instead of getting another set of wheels so i could have one set of summer tires and another set of winter tires i just went with the allseasons.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, that's what all-season tires are for - people who want to use the same tire all year round, in winter snow and summer heat. And for many people, particularly the non-car-performance-enthusiast, that's just fine.
I often post that all-season tires are "compromise tires", because they don't grip as well on snow as a winter tire, and they don't grip as well in warm temperatures as a summer tire. And, as Neri insightfully pointed out, the difference is probably greater between an all-season tire and a summer tire in summer, than between an all-season tire and a winter tire in winter (because even a winter tire can only do so much when you're driving on snow and ice).
All-season tires may also be more suitable for those who experience milder winters, such as those in say Virginia or St. Louis, than for those in Boston or Minneapolis or Nunavut. (Canadian joke for Neri.
)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's the cost breakdown per mile of using the tire
Blizzak (4tires)x$120/20,000mi = $0.024
Traction T/A (4 tires)x$70/60,000mi = $0.0047
You are spending $120 more per season (6000mile/season) since they wear much faster. + any $$ for rims etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 in 185/65-14 for the 2000 Civic costs $75 per tire, not $120, so the cost becomes $.015 per mile. Plus I don't know anyone who drives 6,000 miles in a winter (24,000 miles per year). Figure the more typical 3,000 miles in a winter, and you're looking at a cost difference of $31 for the entire winter. Small price to pay for the best grip you can get on snow and ice...
Well, that's what all-season tires are for - people who want to use the same tire all year round, in winter snow and summer heat. And for many people, particularly the non-car-performance-enthusiast, that's just fine.
I often post that all-season tires are "compromise tires", because they don't grip as well on snow as a winter tire, and they don't grip as well in warm temperatures as a summer tire. And, as Neri insightfully pointed out, the difference is probably greater between an all-season tire and a summer tire in summer, than between an all-season tire and a winter tire in winter (because even a winter tire can only do so much when you're driving on snow and ice).
All-season tires may also be more suitable for those who experience milder winters, such as those in say Virginia or St. Louis, than for those in Boston or Minneapolis or Nunavut. (Canadian joke for Neri.
)<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's the cost breakdown per mile of using the tire
Blizzak (4tires)x$120/20,000mi = $0.024
Traction T/A (4 tires)x$70/60,000mi = $0.0047
You are spending $120 more per season (6000mile/season) since they wear much faster. + any $$ for rims etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 in 185/65-14 for the 2000 Civic costs $75 per tire, not $120, so the cost becomes $.015 per mile. Plus I don't know anyone who drives 6,000 miles in a winter (24,000 miles per year). Figure the more typical 3,000 miles in a winter, and you're looking at a cost difference of $31 for the entire winter. Small price to pay for the best grip you can get on snow and ice...
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