I have a b16a2 bare block with crank still intact. No pistons, rods.
I just got done rebuilding my d series from the ground up. No I finally have time for this N/A build I have been waiting for. Budget isn't too tight. My goals are in the neighborhood of 180whp. I would like to use mostly OEM parts. Motor will be in EF hatch, unless I find another shell between now and the time this motor is done. Any and all suggestions/ ideas will be appreciated.

 

You'll get "better" results posting this in the N/A forum
I could tell you what would definatley make 160whp/115tq, but am unsure about 180

 

Thanks, Bump anyway

 

Head work, cams, intake, exhaust and header will get you there.

 

bump

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Toad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Head work, cams, intake, exhaust and header will get you there. </TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed

 

I've been pondering with the idea of b16 head, blox b cams, omni valve train.skunk 2 IM, 4-1 header, into my existing buddy club specII. Another questions, Is it worth the trouble of locating p30 pistons, or should i just settle with the pr3's? I do not want CTR.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Autoworks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You'll get "better" results posting this in the N/A forum
I could tell you what would definatley make 160whp/115tq, but am unsure about 180</TD></TR></TABLE>

200+WHP has been done with a 1.6 liter B16A. So 180WHP is certainly not out of the question. But when it all comes down, it is a matter of whether it is worth it. I personally feel that a displacement increase in one form or another is the best way to go here.

 

inlinefour.com says they have jdm p30 for special order

 

save your money and build the d16. it will be cheaper in the long run to make the power you want. not much more than 180 but you can get there pretty cheap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mr john &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">save your money and build the d16. it will be cheaper in the long run to make the power you want. not much more than 180 but you can get there pretty cheap. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ilovemyef9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No I finally have time for this N/A build I have been waiting for.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree. 180WHP allmotor from an A6 may not be impossible. But it is damn close. And after you are done, you will probably not like what you get in terms of low end torque and drivability, since this would be a REALLY radical motor. Not to mention difficult and expensive to build - at least for the average guy. On the other hand, 180WHP is just a few easy bolt-ons away for a stock ITR motor, LS-VTEC, or even a GSR motor (well, add cams to the mix for the last couple). And any one of these motors will be perfectly reliable, get good gas mileage, and be perfectly daily drivable at this HP level (or even more). Hell, you could probably even pass smog if visual testing is not a problem. But a 180WHP D16A6 (if you can even manage to get to this level) is going to be one high-strung, untractable, hand grenade of a motor. So unless you REALLY want to build a car to show up the B-Series guys, this is not the way to go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mr john &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">save your money and build the d16. it will be cheaper in the long run to make the power you want. not much more than 180 but you can get there pretty cheap. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Please show me a detailed list, ideally, of what you would do to a D16 cheaply and make 180whp. I'm not saying it can't be done, I just can't see it beind done cheaper than a B without FI.
If you did it then a big to you.

My B16A1 with bolt ons, CTR cam, no head or internal work made 160, so 180 was very obtainable. I have never even seen a 160whp D, that is still driveable everyday. It just sounds like it would be a rolling time bomb.

 

he didn't say d16a6 he just said d16. So a d16z6 or d16y8 could be used.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AudioXtremes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he didn't say d16a6 he just said d16. So a d16z6 or d16y8 could be used.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even if the motor is a D16Z6 or D16Y8, 180WHP allmotor is going to be EXTREMELY difficult at best. FEW people make this kind of power on a D-series without a turbo. And I would be willing to bet that NONE of them are daily drivers.

 

b16a, 12:1, good cams, head porting/polishing, valve train, arp's everywhere (rev it up there). probably some stronger rods than oem b16 if you want to rev pretty high, but the biggest bang for the buck.. ITB's!

itb + high cr + good cams = booyah.

 

Ok first off, I spent $1500 rebuilding an a6 with zc pistons and all of your typical oem upgrades, So I am not wasting anymore money on a d-series.... END OF STORY. I've seen a FEW d series that made 160whp, But had like 5 grand in the motor. so no! I would be happy with anywhere above 160whp with this b16 I have. A good tranny is also key. I am in the beginning stages of this build so I am trying to get a good, strong, yet reliable bottom end together.

 

Buy CTR pistons. Those really jack up the CR. You want around 12:1 compression ratio. Get a thin head gasket. Cams, valve train. injectors, IM TB combo. Cam gears to adjust them and a proper tuned ECU. 180whp out of a B16 is alot of $$$. Roughly 3000$. It's easier out of a B18. Get a GSR block.

 

My advice, you don't seem to know what you're doing.
Buy an engine that's already built and proven to run 180whp.

LS/VTEC's are becoming more and more common. High HP low budget setups. Should be able to find a completed one for under $4000 now-a-days with a built bottom end and different pistons.

Remember, the b18a/b bottom ends aren't made to handle the RPM's that the PR3 head and valvetrain can... So once that's improved, you have a strong daily driver LS/VTEC

 

go with a 1.8 but if your set on the B16 you might be able to get away w/o p&p. just get cams (s2s2, bc4, jun3, toda b), high comp pistons (around 11.2 atleast), IM, TB, good header (toda, dtr, sms, rmf, etc), and a REAL good tune (hondata, neptune, chrome).

 

port, i/h/e, itr pistons that are over bored, and a good set of cams.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NikoZai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My advice, you don't seem to know what you're doing.
Buy an engine that's already built and proven to run 180whp.

LS/VTEC's are becoming more and more common. High HP low budget setups. Should be able to find a completed one for under $4000 now-a-days with a built bottom end and different pistons.

Remember, the b18a/b bottom ends aren't made to handle the RPM's that the PR3 head and valvetrain can... So once that's improved, you have a strong daily driver LS/VTEC</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know what I am doing, I am simply asking advice. I'm not going to be using pr3 head. It's a p73 head. Why would you want to buy an engine already built? There is no fun in that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buy CTR pistons. Those really jack up the CR. You want around 12:1 compression ratio. Get a thin head gasket. Cams, valve train. injectors, IM TB combo. Cam gears to adjust them and a proper tuned ECU. 180whp out of a B16 is alot of $$$. Roughly 3000$. It's easier out of a B18. Get a GSR block.</TD></TR></TABLE>

CTR pistons also are one of the heaviest OEM pistons out there. You can get away with pr3 ( or p30s , if you can get your hands on them ) and pr3 rod. Since the GSR(p73) head will bump the compression up and is an excellent flowing head, I think that is the route to go. I think a good set of cams, valvetrain, and port job are key!

Individual Throttle Bodies will definatley be used. I am new to "tuning" programs, so I am still reading up on that.

Bump

 

from what ive been reading in the n/a forum the ctr pistons are way over rated... p30 or p73 pistons are the way to go

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ilovemyef9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would you want to buy an engine already built? There is no fun in that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think what he REALLY meant was that you might be better off working with a configuration that is more proven to be able to produce this kind of power. Not that a B16A can't (I have seen several produce 200+WHP). It is just SO much easier to get 180+WHP from a 1.8 liter bottom end.

But if you are dead-set on a B16A, here's something else you might consider: a B17A crank B17A rods. This will stroke your B16A to 1.7 liters. And extra displacement always helps. It will also make your motor MUCH better on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I disagree. 180WHP allmotor from an A6 may not be impossible. But it is damn close. And after you are done, you will probably not like what you get in terms of low end torque and drivability, since this would be a REALLY radical motor. Not to mention difficult and expensive to build - at least for the average guy. On the other hand, 180WHP is just a few easy bolt-ons away for a stock ITR motor, LS-VTEC, or even a GSR motor (well, add cams to the mix for the last couple). And any one of these motors will be perfectly reliable, get good gas mileage, and be perfectly daily drivable at this HP level (or even more). Hell, you could probably even pass smog if visual testing is not a problem. But a 180WHP D16A6 (if you can even manage to get to this level) is going to be one high-strung, untractable, hand grenade of a motor. So unless you REALLY want to build a car to show up the B-Series guys, this is not the way to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i said the d16 would be cheaper to build to 180hp, not more reliable or better at gas mileage

180whp is about 210 crank hp.....so thats about 80 hp over a stock d16. with a smartly planned budget 180 hp can be achieved relatively cheap. a basic build would include:

lightened and balanced factory rods
higher compression pistons
a well ported cylinder head and camshaft combo
well engineered intake setup and exhaust setup
and a good computer that can maximize these parts

a buddy of mine had just this simple setup, probably spent about 2000.oo and put down 181 whp





its not that hard and doesnt have crazy driveability issues. remember this guy only has an empty b16 shortblock. just the parts to put this engine in the car with the mounts, tranny, cylinder head etc is going to be at least that much.then you have a stock b16 that puts what?....135 whp. wow then you add the "boltons" for another 1000bucks and bump that up to 150-160 still not there yet? well cams, port work crazy header and intake setup....should be there between 170-190 depending on the dyno. at that point you just spent about 4000 bucks when you could have had comparable power for half the price. and people complaining about torque...well, this is going in an ef, which is not the heaviest car in the world, plus vtec motors are designed to make way more power than torque. even built 1.8 motors still dont make amazing torque. what im saying is it really depends on how much money he wants to spend. all i said is that a singlecam can make 180 whp for cheaper than the price of buying and building a b series. no one can argue that singlecam parts are cheaper than twincam parts. and i havent seen a complete d16 swap sell for much more than 400 bucks. the cheapest gsr completes around are still over 2000.oo

just check my signature.. im around 150whp and ive put about 1000 bucks into my 1.5 liter looking for 175 after some pistons and more head work, and i will get there no problem. basically i will have built a 175 whp (dynojet hp, not overrated dynopack hp) for under 2000.oo just something to think about before spending this much just on the engine to get the same results



Modified by mr john at 11:58 PM 2/24/2006

 

So you're telling me that I would have to spend all this cash on expensive porting and 'crazy' headers to get 180WHP, but a D16 could do it with a cheap pocket port and a DC header? Yeah, right. That intake manifold certainly doesn't look too cheap to me. And that header doesn't exactly look like some ebay deal. Also, reliability and gas mileage are things that matter to MANY people out there, myself included. And although you might have been able to get 175WHP from a D16A6 for less than I paid for my ITR (which probably puts out about the same WHP with bolt-ons), guess what? You will be hard-pressed to get anything more from that motor. My C5 can EASILY produce 200+WHP with just cams and maybe a better header. But as it stands, I am getting ~175WHP from a stock motor with stock reliability, 34MPG on the freeway, good emissions, torque that a hyper-built D-series motor can only dream of, and the ability to fairly easily produce MUCH more than this with relatively little effort. And THAT is enough (in my opinion) to justify EVERY penny I spent on my setup vs a built D16. Not to mention being able to take my car to places other than the track without worry.



It's a long walk home from places like this!


Modified by StorminMatt at 12:21 AM 2/25/2006