i have come to a conclusion that in general, the less amount of speakers generate better sound imo. good speakers/subwoofers with good amount of power and tedious tuning yeild much better sq. i took the component set out of the doors in my car and am just running 5.25 inch reference mb's in the kicks and a 12 inch type r. they are powered up by a 4 channel amp, sub bridged on rear channels.
it sounds great, i was very surprised at the results after taking out my component set and second amplifier..

the point being, more speakers does not mean "more sound".
anyone care to chime in?

 

I would agree with you to a point, but not on your setup. Components are way better than 2 ways. One speaker has a tough time producing all the frequencies. So you get specialized speakers to handle certain ranges and use a crossover to divide the frequencies among them. That means at least, a set of tweeters, a set of mids, and a single sub. Then use amplifiers to get each speaker enough power, good speaker wire to carry it, and you're all set. And of course custom mounting to aim them properly.

Less speakers meaning that you started with two ways in the front, two ways in the back, and two subs, then yes, less is better for sq. More speakers does mean more sound meaning louder, or spl.

What I would like to hear people's opinions on is whether its worth it for audio sq to have the two types of tweeters. I'm not talking about surround sound for video.

 

ive never used 2-way speakers. ive only used two way component sets.. and they have only been in kick panel or front door locations. as you can see by my sig
haha.. buttt yeah i do agree with you 100%, which is why for my new setup ive opted for a 3-way component set. im planning on being very pleased after this install.

also, i have never used more than one subwoofer, only single 12.
mounting is very crucial when looking for sq and i think kicks make a great difference rather than door mounts for higher freq.

what are you talking about with two types of tweeters though? this is new to me and i am interested..

 

Your setup looks cheap, you must not have had much experience with "good" systems.

I have a del sol with component speakers in the doors (bridge mounted tweeters), another set of tweeters in the vents on the dash (little diamond shaped vents on sols), a single 12 in a sealed enclosure in the trunk and it sounds great.

I have no rear speakers at the moment. I had a bridge mounted component set in the rears too, but found it better without for staging purposes.

My tweeters are all aluminum and I can't say that mixing material would sound good. Silk tends to be smooth and metal tends to be harsh (unless we get to some "really" high end speakers.

As suspendedhatch said "I would agree with you to a point, but not on your setup". Type R speakers and woofers sound like absolute ***.

 

okay, i was not bragging about my stereo.. and no i havent experienced what you apparently call "good speakers" yet..............

i have been running mb references for component sets and the type-r woofer.. which actually is not that bad for the amount of money that the stereo is worth.

so you can take your uppity comment and shove it, because i wasnt bragging or boasting.. just getting feedback. that is all.

not looking for someone to say my stereo isnt worth a ****. so

 

references arent bad, In fact I have RWE-213s in my doors right now ran offa my PCE-216 x-over w/ my PCE-25 tweeters.
I built custom door panels to fit a 3 way comp set, which will house a QSD-210 comp set with a QSD add-a-woofer 6" ($2000 3 way component set) whenever my QSD 210s come in.
I agree that less speakers with fine tuning is better. I have no rear fills, and I am a bit hesitant to do a 3-way setup in the first place, but i want to showcase what my job is capable of.
I would lose the Alpine sub tho. Have you considered a quart premium or reference sub, it will complement your component set well, looks really clean and has great sound.

 

genearally less is better for imaging reasons

 

Reposted because he came with the proof to back his $hit up!. Some may say other wise but it seems that you know what you are doing. I'll send you some pics of the caddy cts when we start on it. My lil sis has someother things going out right now and the car won't be able to be started on right away. Plus we are still drawing out what we are going to do. sq or spl or show. You'll be the third to know,lol. You just don't take a car and throw **** at it and hopes it sticks. Once we draw out everything and get our game plan I let everyone know. Plus we are in the works to move into a bigger shop in a better location.


Modified by wrx-killer-Sti eater at 3:11 AM 3/1/2006

 

considering the perfect audio system would consist of 2, and only 2 drivers that can play the full audio spectrum - then yes, less is more in an ideal world.

b/c we don't have drivers that can produce the entire audible spectrum on their own, we have to add in more drivers to spread out the "load" so to speak.

With that said, the big debate out there is a two way front stage against a 3 way. There are some substantial trade offs for each, but they can both work, and both work well.

For me, personally, I prefer a three way:

1. you get more dynamic midbass with a dedicated driver
2. it's easier to get a small mid to image more tightly then a larger one
3. equalizing plds and getting a large enough enclosure for a large mid is very hard - smaller mids playing only mid range will be much more forgiving
4. putting your midrange out of phase with eachother can help the system image and stage better - in many cars - in a two way system, this will destroy your midbass, in a three way, you get the best of both worlds.

of course, a three way is more expensive (more drivers, more crossover power, more amplifiers) and is harder to setup.

That's my 0.02 - but I only use as many drivers as I need.

 

Woah woah woah chill. All I"m saying about your particular setup is that your money spend could have been better spent eleswhere.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSRracing95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">okay, i was not bragging about my stereo.. and no i havent experienced what you apparently call "good speakers" yet..............

</TD></TR></TABLE>

And I wasn't ragging on your speakers (Mbq makes some good speakers, if you can get a hold of em ), just your sub. In my experience anyone who likes type r subs doesn't have a good ear for sq.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wrx-killer-Sti eater &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You did not say what products you have in your car. Looking at what you say about your car sounds kind of weak, I not dissing but to have 4 tweeters an two mids and a sub. In a del-sol. ? why so many tweeters. If you have a good set you won't need 4 tweets.

Also what are you basing you post on alpine type-r subs and highs on. I don't personaly like them but I can't diss them because they are some great speakers. I just put a componet set and coaxial set in a members car with a amp for the them and tunned it correctly and had great midbass and highs. Hell I thought the sub was turned down. So if you diss something you need to have a good reason to back it up </TD></TR></TABLE>

You want reasons? I do this for a living dude. I listen to 100's of systems and in my experience type R's ALWAYS sound bad. Sure they hit hard, but I personally like CLEAN bass as opposed to sloppy-as-all-hell bass.

As for as the type R components go, I honestly think the type s COAXIALS sound better than them.

As far as why I would possibly need 4 tweeters, it has to do with sound staging. By adding "ambient" tweeters it effectively raises the sound stage, which is a good thing in case you didn't know.

Oh and think twice before you call me out for my system, I didn't post brands/models etc., cause I'm intentionally trying not to be uppity (which apparently didn't work lol)

Not trying to be an ***, but sq is my goal and I would personally rather see people get good quality stuff than ****

 

If you look at your post there is no way of telling were you are going with your post and it looks negitive. esp when he states what speakers he has. So I am going to take it as that you don't know whats what . Plus you don't even mention what you have to back it up. Or to compare yours to his. My post was not a bashing post. don't take it the wrong way. I been in the game for years and I OWN my own shop. If you were to read your post from someone else view you can see were I am coming from. Not trying to sound like a dick but I never called out your system like that. But I have plenty of my own cars that I'll let people take the pepsi challenge if they wanna step up. Plus two new projects that are underway.

 

Yeah I've glanced through your projects before. Always interested to see new installs.

My setup -

http://photobucket.com/albums/...Audio/

Oh and care to tell what your new project cars are?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by got_no_sol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I've glanced through your projects before. Always interested to see new installs.

My setup -

http://photobucket.com/albums/...Audio/

Oh and care to tell what your new project cars are?</TD></TR></TABLE>

all I'm seeing is some randomly placed rear speakers, some door mounted speakers, a few passive x-overs and a half finished trunk.....did I miss anything

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by got_no_sol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Woah woah woah chill. All I"m saying about your particular setup is that your money spend could have been better spent eleswhere.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahh the traditional back pedal - how is anyone of their right mind supposed to infer the statement above from the following:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your setup looks cheap, you must not have had much experience with "good" systems.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ummm, yeah.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all I'm seeing is some randomly placed rear speakers, some door mounted speakers, a few passive x-overs and a half finished trunk.....did I miss anything </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe that's just sarcasm, but the whole system is done, howeverm I don't have pictures of the rear speakers not being there.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ahh the traditional back pedal - how is anyone of their right mind supposed to infer the statement above from the following:

ummm, yeah.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Both of my points were valid, I"m just not trying to start **** or an e-***** contest.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by got_no_sol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I've glanced through your projects before. Always interested to see new installs.

My setup -

http://photobucket.com/albums/...Audio/

Oh and care to tell what your new project cars are?</TD></TR></TABLE>LOL, let me guess, you sell BA not Alpine? 94

 

^ I sell diamond, boston, alpine, kenwood, fosgate (boo ), pioneer and eclipse.

Eclipse we're not carrying this year though, cause they're going the way of jvc Looks like we're gonna be replacing them with nakamichi (however the hell you spell it) but most of the guys here want mcintosh instead

 

the reviews I've read on the nak are terrible - why would you want to pick those up - and the new rockford amps look beefy!

that 3sixty - assuming it delivers - is a sweet integration piece - especially considering the capability of doing everything from a pda.

Eclipse has gone the way of mass market and are moving away from the simple sq setups they used to have. I've always seen them as a source unit company anyway - never got into their subs/amps/speaks. they are clearly going the way of video/nav/multimedia - that's where the industry is going anyway

of course ,that's just my opinion

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by got_no_sol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe that's just sarcasm, but the whole system is done, howeverm I don't have pictures of the rear speakers not being there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahh, that helps explain things -- from the photos posted there's no real indication that they system is actually sq based - of course, looking at a system and listening is a totaly different thing. I'd be interested in seeing finished photos - looks like you got a good start on the trunk - just want to see how you finished it up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Both of my points were valid, I"m just not trying to start **** or an e-***** contest.</TD></TR></TABLE>

your first point was a cheap shot - if you don't want to start ****, then you may want to tread a little more lightly with your words - just friendly advise

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by got_no_sol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^ I sell diamond, boston, alpine, kenwood, fosgate (boo ), pioneer and eclipse.

Eclipse we're not carrying this year though, cause they're going the way of jvc Looks like we're gonna be replacing them with nakamichi (however the hell you spell it) but most of the guys here want mcintosh instead </TD></TR></TABLE> We sell Alpine (full line), Sony/Aiwa (full line) [boo ], Panasonic (HUs and speakers), Kenwood (full line) and JL Audio (full line) we dropped Eclipse last year because of QC on there amps. Pioneer dropped us 2 years ago because we wouldn't drop Alpine.

Nak has gone down hill since there hay-days, we carried it one year, [one order] nothing but problems.

We also carried McIntosh car audio when it first came out up here in Canada, but head office thought it was too high end for us so they dropped it after 2 years, even though we were selling it, [dumb *** buyers] wish we could get it back.

I am surprised that you are so down on Alpine Type R speakers, although it is there "entry level" line I have had some pretty good results with them, both the speakers and the subs. 94

 

As far as type R speakers go I think they sound way too muddy for their price tag, especially since I think diamonds coaxials at half the price blow them away.

Hell I'd take a fosgate p2 woofer over a type R. Wayyyyy too dirty.

I want mac for my car but is wayyyyyy too expensive for my budget

 

it all depends on how much power you're running. 2-ways tend to be more efficient than 4-ways. so if you're running off the HU, nice 2 ways are your best best. if you've got amps coming out your *******, go to town with the 4 ways. personally, i would go with some really nice component 2-ways over anything else. my teg has mb quart components up front, entry level pioneer 3-ways in the back. my cheap pioneer cd player is in there right now, but my alpine 9807 is going in as soon as i get around to taking it out of my girl's car. personally, i love the way it sounds with that alpine and those speakers (i ran it for a little while already) with a sub in the trunk. but i'm not looking for show quality, just something well balanced that impresses me every day on my way to work. also, speaker selection has a lot to do with it. pioneers favor deftones (big highs and big lows) so something with some good midrange complements them very nicely.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">considering the perfect audio system would consist of 2, and only 2 drivers that can play the full audio spectrum - then yes, less is more in an ideal world.

b/c we don't have drivers that can produce the entire audible spectrum on their own, we have to add in more drivers to spread out the "load" so to speak.

With that said, the big debate out there is a two way front stage against a 3 way. There are some substantial trade offs for each, but they can both work, and both work well.

For me, personally, I prefer a three way:

1. you get more dynamic midbass with a dedicated driver
2. it's easier to get a small mid to image more tightly then a larger one
3. equalizing plds and getting a large enough enclosure for a large mid is very hard - smaller mids playing only mid range will be much more forgiving
4. putting your midrange out of phase with eachother can help the system image and stage better - in many cars - in a two way system, this will destroy your midbass, in a three way, you get the best of both worlds.

of course, a three way is more expensive (more drivers, more crossover power, more amplifiers) and is harder to setup.

That's my 0.02 - but I only use as many drivers as I need.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow very nicely put, alot of good information going on here guys.

and my original post was more geared toward the fact that multiple sets of the same type of speaker are less favorable for sq than better quality with more power going to one set. sorry for not being more detailed.. but none-the-less.. i like the input going on. ill have to think of some good things to say now but im running out the door haha

 

Dude your **** is ghetto fabulous! You were talking about good equipment and your pics all use ancient equipment. I figured you would be posting custom installs w/ names like Focal, Diamond and the likes. Instead its all RF and old SoundStream
in carpet covered MDF boxes! Good Luck with that!

I feel bad for the person that started this thread since you posted in it.

 

well lets clarify this for the "muddy sounding" alpine type-r.. yes its more of an spl subwoofer.. and still may not even compete with others in that respect..

but after all, my new setup will consist of a JL 12W6V2-D4
...powered by a JL 500/1 yeahhhhhh