I have a 94 Del Sol S running a D15 (1.5 liter non vtec) and after 205,000 miles, the time has come for an engine swap. I have a D16Z6 waiting in the garage but was looking for more power. I want to have a legit swap and clear everything through the California Smog Referee too. I’ve spent the last two weeks searching through threads, trying to get some pointers but haven’t found much of anything addressing Del Sol S wiring or California Smog Issues so I have a couple questions…
1) Does anyone know if the smog referee will pass a JDM motor or will they only pass a USDM motor?
2) How can I locate a local smog ref?
3) Any leads as to local shops in Southern California for sourcing motors? Good prices, good quality, good experiences etc…?
4) Could someone explain what OBD refers to and the differences between OBD0, OBD1 and OBD2?
5) Any recommendations as to which motor? Trying to keep costs kind of low so no H22’s or B18C5’s but what about D16Z6, B16A (and which B16A?) or B18C1 and the related wiring issues?
6) how can you tell what year the motor is? I know the heads are date stamped but that is at the time of manufacturing, not per year of the car.
I'm going to do the swap myself but have never done one for an EG. I have a lot of EF experience but am kind of new to EG and DC2 motors and wiring. My main concerns aren’t with the mechanics (as in actually dropping in the motor, drive axles, shift linkage, etc...that's no problem) but with actual engine choice and wiring issues. Any help or advice you guys could give would be greatly appreciated.



Modified by Miko EG1 at 12:34 PM 2/14/2006

 

1)yes they will pass, you just have to have all emission devices in tact and working
2)ask chp is what i did
3)www.hmotorsonline.com or http://www.inlinefour.com
4)OBD is the year of electronics OBD0 is pre-92 and doesnt have as much sensors its controlled more by the motor then computers.
OBD1 is 92-95 and is the easiest one to tune, your car is OBD1 93-95 del sol's are OBD1
OBD2 has way too many sensors and its just not easy to tune, my suggestion is stay obd1 and i can tune that for you with hondata, uberdata, or crome...whatever you prefer
5)the best motor in your situation would be to turbo the d16z6 or go with a B16A, thats the engine code for all the jdm b16's except type R, but if you go with a usdm b16 go with b16a3.
6)not sure

if you need any help with the swap feel free to email me or pm me, ive done tons of eg swaps


Modified by x_outlaw_x at 3:03 PM 2/14/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by x_outlaw_x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5)the best motor in your situation would be to turbo the situation</TD></TR></TABLE>

Would you happen to know how much boost the B16A rods can take on a consistent basis?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Miko EG1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Would you happen to know how much boost the B16A rods can take on a consistent basis? </TD></TR></TABLE>

stock rods, 8lbs safely and thats with a good tune. i wanted more boost, so i replaced mine with eagle rods

remember if you drop a b16a from a 88-91 you should expect to do a lil inspect (leaks, wear n' tear, etc)n' overhaul (gaskets, etc) on the motor, its pretty old.

1) Does anyone know if the smog referee will pass a JDM motor or will they only pass a USDM motor?
** depends on which motor and the ref station.
2) How can I locate a local smog ref?
** http://smogcheck.ca.gov/stdhome.asp
3) Any leads as to local shops in Southern California for sourcing motors? Good prices, good quality, good experiences etc…?
** http://www.sportcarmotion.com "the tea father" is an h-t sponsor, discounts yo
4) Could someone explain what OBD refers to and the differences between OBD0, OBD1 and OBD2?
** On Board Diagnostics, OBD0 pre 92' vehicles, OBD1 92-95 vehicles, OBD2 96+ vehicles
5) Any recommendations as to which motor? Trying to keep costs kind of low so no H22’s or B18C5’s but what about D16Z6, B16A (and which B16A?) or B18C1 and the related wiring issues?
** check out: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878010
6) how can you tell what year the motor is? I know the heads are date stamped but that is at the time of manufacturing, not per year of the car.
** this is a good question, knowing what car the motor came from would help its also a good indication of how legit the motor is, especially if a vin is given as well

 

i think he meant you should turbo the z6 in your garage, because b16s cost at least 2 grand or so with tranny. and a turbo kit is gonna be less. possibly more fun, i have a b16 its pretty fun to drive, but i have never driven a turbo D. i would swap in the z6, then smog it, then turbo it. thats an idea... but not if you're planning on going "all out"

 

also, keep in mind that the motor has to be as new or newer than chasis. So all obd0 motors are out. Any b16a3 should be fine, as should any b18c1, etc. Not all d16z6's will though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by saxman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, keep in mind that the motor has to be as new or newer than chasis. So all obd0 motors are out. Any b16a3 should be fine, as should any b18c1, etc. Not all d16z6's will though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you can use an obd0 b16, just need to change the wiring n' sensors to match obd1/2 del sol vtecs... i've seen those pass bar inspections @ southwestern college's bar/ref station

 

a stock bottom end b16 blows at 26 psi, and i can back that up


you could consistently run 10-14 pounds on a b16 safely

 

and yes i did mean to turbo the z6 in his garage, i just accidently said situation instead of d16z6, that will be the cheapest way and youll be faster then a b16 too

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by x_outlaw_x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and yes i did mean to turbo the z6 in his garage, i just accidently said situation instead of d16z6, that will be the cheapest way and youll be faster then a b16 too</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know Greddy makes that street legal turbo kit for the d series too but I'm worried about having a turbo for a daily driver for reliability reasons (vs. normally aspirated twin cam). Any thoughts?

 

Also, I know that a B16 would have more torque than a boosted D16 - wouldn't that be better for street driving (as you usually never get up into the high RPM's where your turbo would really start to spool and kick in). I'm thinking overall, the B series wouldn't be much more than a greddy turbo kit with the intercooler, about the same power, but with more torque and a bit more reliability. What do you guys think?

Thanks for all of the input by the way.

 

ive seen b16a hold 10psi all day but... all motors are not the same some time you just get lucky.... but to be safe get some ARP studs and a good gasket that can lower ur comp. a bit

 

Has anyone driven the same kind of car - one with a B16A and the other with a B18C1? Is the difference worth the $1000 extra for the GSR Swap?

 

just a quick note:

California smog.

A lot of boosted cars will flat out not pass. Even a little bit of boost can cause you to fail smog. A NA B16A would do just fine to replace the old and weathered D15 in the S. A D16 would do as well, if you just want a reliable engine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Del Sol SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you can use an obd0 b16, just need to change the wiring n' sensors to match obd1/2 del sol vtecs... i've seen those pass bar inspections @ southwestern college's bar/ref station </TD></TR></TABLE>
while you've seen it pass, it is not carb legal, and a ref station following/enforcing the rules will not allow it.

Using an engine older than the chasis IS NOT legal

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/St...4.htm

 

Thanks saxman - great link

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by saxman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, keep in mind that the motor has to be as new or newer than chasis. So all obd0 motors are out. Any b16a3 should be fine, as should any b18c1, etc. Not all d16z6's will though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not always... study the law a touch more closely

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by numist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just a quick note:

California smog.

A lot of boosted cars will flat out not pass. Even a little bit of boost can cause you to fail smog. A NA B16A would do just fine to replace the old and weathered D15 in the S. A D16 would do as well, if you just want a reliable engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then those boosted cars aren't setup correctly. If anything, the turbo should decrease emissions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by saxman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
while you've seen it pass, it is not carb legal, and a ref station following/enforcing the rules will not allow it.

Using an engine older than the chasis IS NOT legal

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/St...4.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>

It IS perfectly legal. Explain how I passed a 92 B17 in a 93 Civic chassis and YES, the ref DID know what year the engine was. This was at the Natomas ref also with the supervisor standing right there. So no "they weren't following the rules" crap either...

 

whatever you do, do NOT go to the ref, cuz they will find something wrong and guess what? you gotta come back until you get it right. besides you swapping a sohc in a sohc car aint nobody gonna notice. it will pass smog anyways

and, why a d16z6? i got that motor in my 92 si and its slow as expletive

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZipTieGuy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whatever you do, do NOT go to the ref, cuz they will find something wrong and guess what? you gotta come back until you get it right. besides you swapping a sohc in a sohc car aint nobody gonna notice. it will pass smog anyways

and, why a d16z6? i got that motor in my 92 si and its slow as expletive</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your idea on the ref is gay. Its EASY to pass the ref.

The z6 isn't anything special without boost.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It IS perfectly legal. Explain how I passed a 92 B17 in a 93 Civic chassis and YES, the ref DID know what year the engine was. This was at the Natomas ref also with the supervisor standing right there. So no "they weren't following the rules" crap either... </TD></TR></TABLE>then why does the ref website listing the rules, along with all the paperwork that they have at the ref stations, and conversations I've had with the ref that clearly state that the engine has to be as new or newer than the chasis?

I don't see how "Make sure the engine and emission control configuration on exhaust - controlled vehicles are certified to the year of the vehicle or newer" is that open to interpretation.


only explination I could think of for your situation is that they looked at the production date of the vehicle(which for a 93 model civic could very easily be in early-mid 92) and compared that to the year of the engine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by saxman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then why does the ref website listing the rules, along with all the paperwork that they have at the ref stations, and conversations I've had with the ref that clearly state that the engine has to be as new or newer than the chasis?

I don't see how "Make sure the engine and emission control configuration on exhaust - controlled vehicles are certified to the year of the vehicle or newer" is that open to interpretation.


only explination I could think of for your situation is that they looked at the production date of the vehicle(which for a 93 model civic could very easily be in early-mid 92) and compared that to the year of the engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not really "open for intepretation"... See, I knew my response would get me at least ONE person who thought they had all the answers and would be a smart ***. Look, the law does not specify ALL the little loopholes that are available.

Listen, this is the way it works. GENERALLY speaking, yes, the engine must match the year of the chassis. BUT, lets say you want a 92 engine in your 93 car, like I did. Is it legal? Perfectly. Why? Simple. The B17 (what I put in) was also manufactured in 1992, and from 1992 to 1993 there were NO changes to the emissions equipment on the engine. So therefore its legal. Get it? If the engine was made in 1969 with the exact same emissions equipment as it was in 1993, then I could use a 1969 engine for all they care.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Its not really "open for intepretation"... See, I knew my response would get me at least ONE person who thought they had all the answers and would be a smart ***. Look, the law does not specify ALL the little loopholes that are available.

Listen, this is the way it works. GENERALLY speaking, yes, the engine must match the year of the chassis. BUT, lets say you want a 92 engine in your 93 car, like I did. Is it legal? Perfectly. Why? Simple. The B17 (what I put in) was also manufactured in 1992, and from 1992 to 1993 there were NO changes to the emissions equipment on the engine. So therefore its legal. Get it? If the engine was made in 1969 with the exact same emissions equipment as it was in 1993, then I could use a 1969 engine for all they care. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Nicely put Hybrid93Eg I know a few guys with 95 EJ1s with 94 B18C1 engines and are BAR certified.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nudist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just a quick note:

California smog.

A lot of boosted cars will flat out not pass. Even a little bit of boost can cause you to fail smog. A NA B16A would do just fine to replace the old and weathered D15 in the S. A D16 would do as well, if you just want a reliable engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most boosted cars will not pass, when a vehicle is boosted more fuel is added to keep the engine from running too lean. When the stoichiometric fuel ratio runs too lean, the engines EGT shoots up too high, and too little fuel is just as bad as too much fuel. It makes no sense to bolt on a turbo and then not add any fuel.

There is only one way to get around smog test somewhat legally. The way to do it is to dynotune the vehicle to pass emissions. What? Yes, the secret is to piggyback a Standalone ECU to the OEM ECU, then adjust the fuel, ignition and timing parameters independently, then mix in 12-17% total volume of MTBE into the fuel, then dynotune the vehicle until the vehicle meets the required emissions mandate. Even if the vehicle has no emissions equipment, turbo, full race motor, JDM engine and/or high compression, the vehicle can be dynotuned to pass emissions. No backdoor deals, no shady smog techs, none of that. The vehicle can be legally passed, even if the vehicle has to be run on 100% LPG (propane) to pass, it can be done. Now, the visual inspection is still at issue here. There are many smog techs, that as long as the vehicle passes emissions, they don't care about visual. Most smog techs care mainly about the emissions.