I just got the Mugen mounts in the mail..woo hoo.
So, I was looking at the stock mounts, just looking when I notice a threaded hole with no bolt in it. And from the marks, it obviously had one in there at some point.
I have not touched the engine/tranny so I know I did not do it. That leaves Honda or the dealership. I had 3rd gear and some synchro's replaced under warranty.
So, my guess is the dealer. Do you not see the bolt is missing..hello!! or do you not torque all your work to spec? It really pisses me off. I've never doubted the dealership, until now. I guess ya have to do it yourself if you want it done right, and then you have yourself to blame if something goes wrong.

Here is the helm's manual:


Here's the hole w/o bolt:


Zoomed out:


Just sharing my frustration.
Thanks.

 

Just like the body shop that forgot the screw that kept my fender liner from being sucked under the tire.

I can see how this happens though; I would imagine a lot of the dealer mechanics are rushing sometimes and forget something, or whatever.

 

it's the "why do i have so many bolts leftover?!?!" syndrome

 

lol classic

 

Happens...

 

yeah i had a guy work on my car who left out a bolt in the tranny mount like that. no biggie. I just bought a new one at Acura when i was there picking up some oil filters. Maybe you could mention it to them that they forgot it in the first place and they might give you the bolt free and you can do the work yourself

mike

 

HAHAHAHAHA

The dealership torqueing a tranny mount bolt? Please....More like knocking it down in there with a impact gun..

You haven't spent much time with mechanics that work for dealers....they get the max work done, in the min time required..= money for them....

the harsh truth

 

It is not the dealer
It is just a mechanic guy that works for the dealer like any other human being....
Chit just happens.

 

"Wow, i finished ahead of schedule, and look at all the extra bolts i have left over"

 

looks stripped out and mis-aligned..

Will

 

.....I'd never take my car to the "dealer monkeys" as steve calls them.

Do the work yourself and save the $ + know it is done right.

 

When I took my GSR into the Acura of Riverside to get my clutch replaced they threaded the bolt down, but didn't tighten it! It was about 25% through!

 

its hard to trust dealerships when working on cars because they have so much things to do and they want to get this done as soon as possible to they tend to forget small things...best bet is to check the work again and if u dont feel happy about it bring it back im pretty sure they do it again..but then again its ur time that is being wasted while waiting there

 

To me it looks like they meant to put the bolt in there, but decided to let the impact gun line up the bolt instead of finger threading it on first. So they stripped the crap out of the whole, so they couldn't put the bolt in. Rather than fixing the problem, the mechanic prob said **** it. Next car.

 

BTW it's time to do something about your grounding wire.......

 

Same thing happend to me at Tustin Acura in cali...they mailed me the correct bolt..also i was in the neighborhood so they installed it for me for free to..no biggie...SAME BOLT to!!!!!

 

I am willing to bet money that this is what happened:

When tightening down the bolts for that upper mount the tech tightened the short bolt before he fully tightened the two nuts on the studs. By doing this he stripped out the threads in the tranny casing because the mounting surface of the tranny and the mount were not parallel. This misalignment of the threads of the bolt and the threads in the tranny case caused the aluminum threads to strip.

When you fully tighten the two nuts on the studs the surfaces on the tranny and the mount surfaces are parallel and the aluminum threads in the tranny case will not strip when tightening the bolt (even with an impact gun).

You guys get what I am saying, right?

I learned this about 6-7 years back when working on my Civic. Experience is a good thing...

And this sh*t about the dealer not using a torque wrench to tighten the engine mount bolts is obsurd. An impact gun is fine as long as it is used right. Most of the torque wrenches out there are not extremely accurate. In addition to this, if you really wanted an accurate torque reading you would need to use some lube (preferably moly) when tightening the bolt down with a torque wrench that is near the top (FSV) of the torque wrench's torque range. On top of that, you would need to use extensions to get the torque wrench in there. The extension(s) will further decrease the accuracy of the torque wrench. If you were a tech would you go through all of this when it is not even necessary?

Think about it...there are some nuts/bolts that need to be torqued or measued with a stretch gauge (e.g. rod bolts, main cap bolts, cam cap bolts, etc.) and then there are some that don't need it.

-kenji

 

they did the same **** to mine . . . except they stripped the hole i didnt know until i took out the tranny to do the clutcxh

 

IMO... impact guns do not need to be used on a car. it is just a time savings measure that does more harm than good.

how would extensions decrease the acuracy of the torque wrench? sure.. the torsion will twist the extensions... but the overall torque will still be transmitted.

moly lube is your friend

Will

 

Willard,

Extensions decrease accuracy by allowing the torque wrench to become 'misaligned' with the fastener. This misalignment can occur in all three dimensions (x,y, and z). When using the socket only the misalignment is much less likely.

Depending on the length of the extension and the materials used a pretty decent amount of torque can be lost through torsion.

I have asked many old school machinists/mechanics/Engineers about this and this is the information that they have provided me. I trust the experience and advice of these old dudes.

Please, let's not turn this thread into a discussion on the proper use of a torque wrench and fastener torque procedures. I can start a separate thread if you would like. You don't see much of this stuff discussed around here.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I would love to discuss this topic. But, I would also like to keep this thread 'on topic' as well

Impact guns are your friend (when used correctly)

-kenji

/edit/ gramatical change made in 2nd paragraph


[Modified by kenji, 6:06 AM 3/27/2002]

 

Alright- here's what I know and don't.

Don't know: I don't know about how accurate torque wrenches are when using extensions, blah, blah, blah.
I also assume impact guns are not set correctly, to say 57 ft-lbs, or 75 ft-lbs.

Do Know: I've been to the plant where they build Accords, and the plant where they've built Civics. I've shot bolts in with impacts on the line, have you?
I've also then followed up with a torque wrench, per Honda's requirement.
This is how they do it in the plant!

Now, is this overkill? Maybe. But, I'd rather play it safe. The manual gives torques to use, the plant follows this, so why would I want some mechanic shooting my mounts with an impact?? Seems pretty obvious. I'll take a torque wrench, IF possible anyday.

Does this seem so unreasonable?
Now, if my civic is in for service, shoot it with an impact, just so it runs, and I'm happy, but not the R, and especially don't forget a bolt...that's just not cool, they're lucky I didn't catch it for a long time afterwards (winter storage).

 

My dealer forgot to put in my tranny mount bolt when they put in a new block, I found the bolt laying wedged against the mount and block at least 6000 mils later, when I noticed the upper right mount bolt was halfway out If that bolt had come all the way out, **** would have hit the fan.

 

00-ITR-373,

I have not worked on a Civic assembly line. Nor have I used an impact to assemble a Civic on the assembly line. If I remember correctly you work for Honda of America, correct?

If you want to use a torque wrench to tighten all of your mount bolts that is not unreasonable. It is your preference and I respect that. The point I wanted to make is that when an impact gun is used properly you will not be able to tell the difference.

But, I would not consider the fact that the service tech used an impact gun on your tranny bolt unbelievalbe (as mentioned in your title). You and I both know that some techs do some strange things and do make mistakes.

It seems like you really like and care for your ITR. I like my ITR a lot also. That is why I am the only one who works on it.

I would recommend that you get a tap and go through the threads to clean them up and put a new bolt in. Good luck.

-kenji

 

Willard and 00-ITR-373,

Please don't take my posts the wrong way. I did not mean to sound jerky.

The comment that I made "And this sh*t about the dealer not using a torque wrench to tighten the engine mount bolts is obsurd." was a little harsh. I do apologize. But, I was just upset at the fact that you expected a tech to get a torque wrench in that tight space.

No hard feelings...

-kenji

 

1. Honda R&D.

2. Sure, if they use an impact gun properly, you are correct, I won't be able to tell, and I'd be fine with that! I didn't say it's unbelievable they used an impact, just that they forgot the bolt. (in the title)

3. Thanks, I'll try a tap, clean her up, and do the rest of the work myself.
I'll have to anyway, now that my R is going to be voiding any and all warranty items, well most of them!