yesterday i was bored and i was looking on my buddy's stock gsr it just has intake and exhaust..and i know about the stupid butterfly's in the intake manifold that honda decided to do.. and so i know when you turn on your car .. the butterflys close due to the vacum line.. so i was just being stupid and i pulled the vacum line off and pluged it so it would have a vacum leak.. so the buterfly would stay open. well we tested it out and it seem that it acually pulls harder and the car acually its self is a lot louder kinda like when you put an intake for the first time..or when you get a aftermarket manifold!! so im asking is it acually working or im just feeling ****.. if yall know about this left me know or if you have yall stock gsr intake manifold unplug the vacum line off and plug it .....it on the right ride of the manifold... thanx

 

ANYONE????? try it?

 

I think if they're always open on a stock motor you actually lose HP?

 

I always thought about that but since there isn't a bus load of people doing it, it probably doesn't make a difference, but you never know... Someone will eventually come in and straighten this out.

 

i've tried it also, i don't really see teh differene, if there was, it would have to be actually measured on a dyno cuz it might be real slim. i think it just might be wishful thinking on our part. but i am not sure what the butterfly looking thing there is for. anyone else?

 

One of my buddies actually removed the butterflys completely, but i couldnt tell if there were any 'gains'. He never ran the motor with them in it

 

thank yall.. the 2 things i notice was when i floor it from 1-5500rpms its ok and then when vtec open it pulls hard.. and like i was saying it before it a **** load louder.. so wouldnt it be loud because for air is coming in... can a couple of yall just try it to this theory... please. lol so we can come to a concustion for sure..

 

well also the thing i dont is why does b18c1 have then but not b16 and b18c5?? its only our engine which suck.. i always thought about that

 

no, no, no, stupid thing to do. u actually lose power. that manifold is designed for torque. there was a thread about this before. u lose about 8 hp if i remember. ull lose torque and a little bit of high end. the butterfly helps alot for a stock gsr motor. only remove them if u upgrade cams. heeadwork, etc

 

If I understand what you are talking about, that is basically an anti stall dashpot. By removing the vacuum hose, the throttle plate is a little more open. NO different than putting slight foot pressure on the gas pedal. It may screw up the ECU's attempt at achieving correct idle and the TPS reading, but other than that, nothing, zippo, zilch!

 

DAMN man that sucks well scratch that concept... but why does it lose power if you letting more air in? its like my manifold my skunk left a lot more air in then stock so it the same thing right

 

more air isnt a good thing unless it is properly utilized. A/F ratio is off when you do that at the low end. I would leave the manifold the way it was because it already is a decent manifold. Why change something that is already good. The only time i would upgrade to aftermarket is if i had the head ported and polished with performance cams and tuning. Then the extra air is utilized.

 

It is possible that you could see gains with the butterflies open because with an intake and exhaust you are flowing more air volume. With the butterflies closed you are restricting airflow. At low rpm you may see a loss due to low velocity but in the mid range i think you would certainly see gains. Just my .2 cents.

 

thank that exactly what i was thinking.. i know you lose lowend.. but i could care less. its not like i ran offline that much.. because everytime you run into someone it always when your rolling... but yeah

 

the h22 and f22a4 manifolds also have the butterfly system as well

we put the f22a4 manifold on my friends accord lx and it felt like it gained more torque and power

but many peole cut them out of the h22 manifolds, and i was thinking about cutting them out of the gsr manifold on my lsvtec and see how it feels but i have a skunk2 intake manfold on now

 

Not really a good idea because the manifold was designed to give you midrange with the butterfly system. Your just killing your midrange by doing that, because its up top where you need them to be open, and if its working properly, they will be.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 01blackgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not really a good idea because the manifold was designed to give you midrange with the butterfly system. Your just killing your midrange by doing that, because its up top where you need them to be open, and if its working properly, they will be.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes this is true but when you add an aftermarket exhaust and intake the butterfly system may not be optimal for such a setup. On a stock car, yes the butterflies are there to improve flow velocity by running essentially a smaller runner diameter. When you add an exhaust and intake you are flowing a higher volume of air so it is not necessary to have a runner diameter that is so small to keep velocity up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wytechoppin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thank that exactly what i was thinking.. i know you lose lowend.. but i could care less. its not like i ran offline that much.. because everytime you run into someone it always when your rolling... but yeah</TD></TR></TABLE>


when you're running someone those butterflies open automatically at mid-higher rpms. so why would you want to have them open the whole time when they were designed to open by themselves at a specific rpm?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSiDriver02 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes this is true but when you add an aftermarket exhaust and intake the butterfly system may not be optimal for such a setup. On a stock car, yes the butterflies are there to improve flow velocity by running essentially a smaller runner diameter. When you add an exhaust and intake you are flowing a higher volume of air so it is not necessary to have a runner diameter that is so small to keep velocity up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand what your saying, but just getting an intake wouldn't be enough to justify it IMO. If you had the entire intake/exhaust systems redone, then yes. By systems I mean, intake/TB/IM/cams/and even the head itself.

So I just think its pointless with simple bolt ons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 01blackgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I understand what your saying, but just getting an intake wouldn't be enough to justify it IMO. If you had the entire intake/exhaust systems redone, then yes. By systems I mean, intake/TB/IM/cams/and even the head itself.

So I just think its pointless with simple bolt ons.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could very well be right. I would like to see a dyno with and without the butterflies.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSiDriver02 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You could very well be right. I would like to see a dyno with and without the butterflies.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Word

 

It doesnt provide any gains. THe purpose of the secondary runners is to provide more mid-range power and they do just that, disabling them wont give you free Hp, they are engineered from the factory to be very effiecent .

i remember seeing dyno comparisons from a couple years back which actually showed an HP loss when disabling the butterflies. i'll look for the charts.

 

i used to own an rx7, and they had dual butterflies as their TB, if you did what was called the TB mod, you removed the secondary butterflies. the result would be rougher idle and a car mroe prone to stall, but you would gain power in the high end even on a stock motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i used to own an rx7, and they had dual butterflies as their TB, if you did what was called the TB mod, you removed the secondary butterflies. the result would be rougher idle and a car mroe prone to stall, but you would gain power in the high end even on a stock motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can do the same thing on STi's and gain quite a bit of power, but with the GSR setup its no help.