There are just too many choices to be made! Now I have a bug up my butt to get a ZC with a supercharger!! I thought about SC on the D16A6 (91 Civic Si), but I figured start with more power and end with more power. I've got to have major engine work done anyway (rings are shot) so I may as well just put in the ZC.

It absolutely has to be reliable... I'll probably NEVER race it, I want daily driveability and in traffic power.

Is it a bad idea? Shoot me down now before I have a chance to get my hopes up. For the record I've narrowed down my choices to:
Rebuild D16A6
Replace with ZC
B18A1(?) Swap
B16 is still in the running, but WAY WAY behind, I don't see myself ever reving high enough to use it.

And as you know I'm toying with the supercharger idea on the D engines. I can't afford a B swap AND an SC.

 

I say go for it. I have never had a zc with a SC, but I have had a zc and a b16. And i will tell you that the ZC has better low end power for daily driving. With the b16 you have to stay above 5k to make any power. I couldn't imagine how fun a ZC would be with a SI transmission and a JRSC. 40% from off idle to max rpm! @6psi.

 

jackson racing now has a super charger that they are working on i have seen it just cant remember where or you could do the 92-95 greddy kit!

 

I had the greddy kit w/ the zc....was really reliable for a daily driver.

 

I have a "89 DX w/ZC and Si Trans, I start to breath heavy and drool when I think about a supercharger on this combo. Its quick as hell now, with a SC that must be almost as good as sex. I would think for street use it would be reliable. Biggest thing to consider is realisticly the current condition of the bottom end. As long as that is very good or fresh it should be reliable. I would guess the octain requirements would require premium fuel however.


[Modified by virginia_dude, 12:52 PM 3/25/2002]

 

turbo

 

Im not sure if they still work but try them...
http://www.zccrx.com http://www.crxzc.com

 

Yes but tubo won't have the progressive pull off idle the SC would have, sure the Turbo may make more total power but the SC would have an edge on drivability, albeit a small one.

 

They didn't

Maybe I should just sell the thing and get myself an Integra! I'll bet I can't get anything for a Civic that's usin' oil though.

Taking offers! http://www.usisp.com/~cspu/civic.jpg


[Modified by cspu, 9:07 PM 3/25/2002]

 

Which is exactly what I'm looking for. I want a little more low end and the SC is better suited for the way I drive.

 

The TEG weighs more so you would have to make even more power to get the same seat of the pants pull you would get with a Civic thats built, even a little

 

a '89 DX with and Si Trans and a ZC even with a stock airbox ZC exhauts manifold and restrictive DX exhaust still has the get up and go to give me one hell of an adrinaline rush. Hell I have trouble getting 205-50/15 tires to grab in first gear. A SC would be sooooooooo sweeeeeeeeeeet. Wish I had the money.

 

dunno id go turbo, even w/ lag zc low end is quite nice for such an inexpensive motor

 

Sounds like your in a pickle,lets examine costs:zc "freshening up"$250-400,sc$2400-300,ancilaries$100-600,lets say somewhere around $26-3500.Alright now take b16 $1200-1600,mount kit shift licage$300-450,itr cams$350-$400,ancilaries$200-300 around $2500 or so.Traffic sometimes needs to be navigated from diffrent speeds to different lanes depending on how fun a driver you like to be.Third gear @55-60 mph is exiting and vtec sure makes the difference and w/good tuning youd enjoy traffic yet get good gas mileage.
The way I see it you havent found your niche w/honda and are exploring options, my advise to you is b16,itr cams,bolt ons,and maybe a light flywheel/clutch combo.
You would enjoy the drive yet not over exert the design excelence of Honda engines.Then instead of spending money exploring on turbo kits and superchargers you could save to add more goodies to your VTEC.
Im not dissin just giving you a different perspective.
Does Honda or Acura have a turbo or sc auto in their line up?
Sped Phreks
comming soon

 

True but the Supercharged ZC will have a heck of a lot more low end torgue than the B16. The B16 is a damn good engine, but its one that likes and even needs to have its legs stretched so to say. THe kind of driving he does, Say, stop and go driving and in traffic where getting RPMS isn't easy or advisable would give the advantage to the ZC. My understanding of his driving style is conservative. I've Driven a B16 with a real low geared trans and I agree that baby will scoot. But it requires a more agressive driving style. My car with a ZC gets up and scoots with much fewer rpms that don't have people looking from 2 blocks away to see who thinks they are driving formula one. Nobody NEEDS that kind of attention.


[Modified by virginia_dude, 9:07 AM 3/26/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 9:08 AM 3/26/2002]

 

[QUOTE]... My understanding of his driving style is conservative...

Exactly. I'm not racing, just looking for some gitty up in traffic.

I'm going to get the ZC and see how I like it without an SC and then if I decide I need more I'll go from there. The ZC should be an improvement over my tired D16A6 for sure.

 

Make sure you put in either the ZC transmission or the Si transmission. With them you will like it, Put a DX transmission in it and you WILL be dissappointed. Take my word on that. Speaking from personal experience. THe Si is the easy route, DX axels fit. Look on the Hybrid page if you want to go with the ZC trans, the advantage with that one is the intermediate shaft it incorporates, should eliminate Tourqe steer. Just remember the ZC utterly sucks with a DX tramsmission, With the Si trans it feels twice as powerful. ANd word of warning, Use a new HONDA timing belt. Aftermarket ones are crap and aren't much cheaper. A Gates belt caused my engine to jump time EVERY time it went over 5,000 rpm. And the ZC is good till 7,200, don't go faster.


[Modified by virginia_dude, 6:58 PM 3/26/2002]

 

I noticed you had an Si. Your trans bolts right up. If its in good shape you are good to go. I started with a DX and thought I would use the DX tranny to save money. Big mistake , it sucked. I have 205-50/15 on GSR rims, and I get wheelspin easy in first on dry pavement. The hottest setup I hear is either the Si or ZC case with the ZC final with the Si gearset and a HF 5th gearset. Si has a closer ratio, the ZC has a lower final ratio and the HF has the highest overdrive giving back lower crusing RPM's in fifth that you sacrifice for some more get up and go with the ZC final. I haven't done this myself but dream about it if I can get a ZC box with the ORIGINAL final for dirt cheap. HF gearboxes go for about $50 I hear, ZC's I don't know, Engine importer by me wants $350 for one which is too high in my mind. If I am wrong about that combination anyone PLEASE let me know. I don't want to spead inaccurate info, and in case I get a deal would hate to waste money on something that doesn't work.

 

Actually you use the ZC 1- and the Si Final not vice versa.

 

i'd say look at some dynos before u jump into a ZC w/a SC. i've been in your shoes..deciding whether i should go FI on my d-series or just do a b-series swap. i was going to go FI until i did some research and looked at some dynos. stock for stock there is no contest between a b20 w/bolt ons in an ef and a zc w/bolt ons in an ef. ok so obviously b20 swap is way more expensive. but then look at dynos of typical stock bottom end zc or sohc d-series setups on boost (turbo or sc) and you will see that their graphs look similiar to the STOCK b20. yes. i've seen dyno after dyno of turbo'd/sc'd d-series making the peak numbers that a completely stock b20 swap makes. not b20vtec either. just b20. so after you spend the money buying a zc aand swapping it, and then supercharging it on top of that, you could have spent about the same amountof money on a b20 swap and had a platform with more potential to work on. also a b20 seems right up your alley. you dont want to rev high, but you want low end torque and reliability. thats the other thing. zc's are old engines..find a b20z2. i found a b20z2 ('99 crv longblock) w/9k miles on it. clean as a baby's ****, and off an auto so prolly not beaten on. look at some torque curves on b20 dynos before u jump into a zc w/sc. oh and think about this. turbo b20 in an ef.

 

Since he has a Si he could pick up a very good ZC for between $450 -$750, mabe another $150 on seals and gaskets, water pump and timing belt. He doesn't need a new trans or axels. he can bee on the road for well under a grand. I agree if he was building a ***** to the wall street racer, but he wants a gutsy daily driver. The B16 and B18 have more poteintial, a B20 is a real tight squeeze and would understeer due to the weight of the engine alone. I have a ZC and am happy with it, but I know it isn't the best choice if I'm going to do any racing. A B20 will have serious torque but $450 for custom mounts plus egine custom axles trans Ecu you see the picture, your talking big money. A ZC bolts in, and needs minimal mods for wiring, NO custom mounts or anything. Hell the Stock ZC Tri-Y manifiold even bolts right up to the stock exhaust system. The stock aircleaner will fit even. Heck how much cheaper can you get? (Without resorting to anything Illegal).

 

I'll probably just do the ZC (if I can find one) without the SC and see how I like it before I go full on into SC land. Good ZC's are getting kind of scarce. I may have to go with a D16Z6, they are a little easier to get.

There's no way I'm qualified for a B series swap so I'll definately have to pay someone to do it if I go that route. It looks like fitting the B20 in a 4g Civic is a biznitch!


[Modified by cspu, 7:41 PM 3/27/2002]

 

yea, i'm just talking from experience. i will tell you this now. i already swapped a d16z6 into my '91 crx si and was dissapointed. it felt basically like my d16a6. in fact i even felt like my a6 had more power! so then the next summer i rebuilt the d16z6 w/d16a1 pistons and cm clutch+flywheel. yea. the car does have *****..and its pretty nice for a relatively stock d-series. so, in retrospect, i should have done the b series swap right away. im not sure where you're getting the idea that the b20 would be a tight squeeze..all it is is a b18 w/a bigger bore. the physical dimensions are the same. even the physical weight should be relatively close to the b18. and i know there are plenty of b-series hybrids out there that don't understeer that bad. just stating my opinion. oh and a b20 swap done right should cost in the ball park of about $3000. i would think a zc swap + a supercharger would cost around there or more.

 

I hadn't thought of the B20 before, but I did figure that a B swap and a ZC+SC swap would be around the same $$.

I appreciate that info on the D16Z6, sounds like the only "real" advantage it has over the A6 is vtec.

 

Well I have gottem most of my info from the Hybrid honda board, I thought the deck hieght was taller with the B20 than the B18 I know the B18 fits but always undertood the B20 was a taller engine and in a 4G civic you would have to shim the engine way down to clear the hood. and that you would be less than 1/2 inch from the radius arms with that combo. a ZC is 25 Lbs more than a 1.5 but heard the B20 was more than 75 lbs more. With a SC and a motor yes that would total about $3k. The other board just had the B20 and the 2.2 preludes as being NOT RECOMENDED in the 4G chassis, the 5G is another thing. Was you running the ZC with a Si trans? Mine has trouble getting traction in 1st with 205-50/15 tires and thats without popping the clutch with my Si Transmission. The B20 would have the bottom end torque his driving style wants. but he's into over triple what the ZC swap would be. Is he willing to spend the extra money for the extra power.

[Modified by virginia_dude, 3:43 PM 3/27/2002]


[Modified by virginia_dude, 3:48 PM 3/27/2002]