So it is my understanding that a lot of the big headwork guys on the market now use CNC porting (correct me if I am wrong). So, I have access to probably some of the best HAAS machinery in the nation, and my dad is probably one of the most capable cnc machinists in greater midwest. Now, I am trying to put 2 and 2 together, and I start thinking..."Hey, maybe I can do some of my OWN custom headwork instead of paying Alaniz or someone a GRAND to do it". Here lies the problem...I don't know chit about headwork. But, if these guys are using CNC heads, that means there has to be autocad blueprints around for them somewhere, right? So here's my plan, call up alaniz, they e-mail me their autocad designs, I make +20hp.

 

I have heard of CNC chambers but never CNC ported runners. Maybe the technology is out there now? You have a 5-axis CNC mill?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have heard of CNC chambers but never CNC ported runners. Maybe the technology is out there now? You have a 5-axis CNC mill?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I believe we've got access to one.

My dad works as the head of fabrication at our college. He does mostly cnc stuff. The college has a deal with HAAS, they get ALL new haas equipment every 2 years. If it exist, he's got it.

Chambers...being the combustion chambers where the valves sit correct? Where do most of the power gains come from, the chambers or runners? Sorry, I am very unfamiliar with headwork.

 

Yeah, you might want to rething that. I don't think anyone is going to email you their proprietary CAD files that they spent countless hours developing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spankjelly &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So it is my understanding that a lot of the big headwork guys on the market now use CNC porting (correct me if I am wrong). So, I have access to probably some of the best HAAS machinery in the nation, and my dad is probably one of the most capable cnc machinists in greater midwest. Now, I am trying to put 2 and 2 together, and I start thinking..."Hey, maybe I can do some of my OWN custom headwork instead of paying Alaniz or someone a GRAND to do it". Here lies the problem...I don't know chit about headwork. But, if these guys are using CNC heads, that means there has to be autocad blueprints around for them somewhere, right? So here's my plan, call up alaniz, they e-mail me their autocad designs, I make +20hp. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AP-Signworks1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, you might want to rething that. I don't think anyone is going to email you their proprietary CAD files that they spent countless hours developing.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh yeah, I was being sarcastic about any companies sending me their cads. However, I am sure there are some guys on here that have done their OWN porting and have CAD drawings.

 

i doubt anyone on here has done DIY CNC porting, lol. and if they did, i still doubt theyd send it to you.

why dont you measure everything on your head, then send it to a CNC ported, pay the 1000$, get it back, and measure again, then write up a CAD program and email it to all of us...

 

There was an article in the SAE magazine a few months back about the CNC porting that a lot of the NASCAR teams are using (yes, there is technology in NASCAR) . What they do is take a set of hand-ported heads that they believe are the ideal design that they want to use for that engine setup, hit them thousands of times on a CMM machine, import the CMM file into a CAD program and create a model of the runner/combustion chamber shape. Then with this file they can go back on CNC machines and cut heads that are almost identical to the original hand-ported head, only it takes much less time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i doubt anyone on here has done DIY CNC porting, lol. and if they did, i still doubt theyd send it to you.

why dont you measure everything on your head, then send it to a CNC ported, pay the 1000$, get it back, and measure again, then write up a CAD program and email it to all of us...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That sounds like a great idea! Haha, maybe I could be fortunate to find someone who has a head, would be willing to ship it to me for me to draw up in cad, THEN i could send it back to them, and draw it up and e-mail it to everyone!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daveG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There was an article in the SAE magazine a few months back about the CNC porting that a lot of the NASCAR teams are using (yes, there is technology in NASCAR) . What they do is take a set of hand-ported heads that they believe are the ideal design that they want to use for that engine setup, hit them thousands of times on a CMM machine, import the CMM file into a CAD program and create a model of the runner/combustion chamber shape. Then with this file they can go back on CNC machines and cut heads that are almost identical to the original hand-ported head, only it takes much less time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is essentially exactly what I am looking to do....just need a head first.

 

i also doubt anyone would send you their newly ported head so you could do that.

i wouldnt "lend out" 1500$ to someone...would you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i also doubt anyone would send you their newly ported head so you could do that.

i wouldnt "lend out" 1500$ to someone...would you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahh....if I knew 'em!

I dunno, this was just an idea to toss out there. Maybe I'll get lucky and find something, maybe not. I've paid people to let me borrow other things so that I could copy 'em....I've got two hasport mount kits being drawn up right now. Saved me a couple hundred bucks!

 

I highly doubt RLZ, Headgames or anyone like that will just give you a head to borrow and do that with. I guess you could buy it, copy it and offer the same CNC porting service, but that would be a pretty dick move to do and you wouldn't have friends in this industry for long. I can guarentee you that it will cost more to CMM and then CNC program the head to be cut than it would to have one of those guys port it for you. I highly doubt you have the CMM equipment to do it or readily available access to it as its several hundred thousand dollars for just the machine.

Now if you were a head porter and had one of these machines, and wanted to crank out heads like crazy, that'd be an option. But with the size of the import/Honda market I don't really see this happening.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daveG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I highly doubt RLZ, Headgames or anyone like that will just give you a head to borrow and do that with. I guess you could buy it, copy it and offer the same CNC porting service, but that would be a pretty dick move to do and you wouldn't have friends in this industry for long. I can guarentee you that it will cost more to CMM and then CNC program the head to be cut than it would to have one of those guys port it for you. I highly doubt you have the CMM equipment to do it or readily available access to it as its several hundred thousand dollars for just the machine.

Now if you were a head porter and had one of these machines, and wanted to crank out heads like crazy, that'd be an option. But with the size of the import/Honda market I don't really see this happening. </TD></TR></TABLE>

We've got CMM and 5-axis CNC machines. I don't want to sell it by any means, I just want to port the head I've got on my car. I highly doubt anyone will send me their head either. Maybe I can talk one of my buddies into getting their head ported...ahhahaha!

 

this thread is comical...i would send you a port if the money was right, but it's alot more then $1500

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HEAD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this thread is comical...i would send you a port if the money was right, but it's alot more then $1500</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha

My point was just to make sure that it "could" be done given the technology. I've got a lot of friends in the scene and I don't doubt that sooner or later someone will have a head I can take a gander at. I certainly never created this head expecting someone, especially any of the big guys, to send me a head. Any mention I made to that was scrictly sarcasm. I've saved thousands though making my own mounts/traction bars/lca's etc., so who knows what could happen.

 

We cnc port heads 8 hours a day with two Fadal five axis mills.We weld and port stock heads as well as manufacturing our heads from billet.It takes alot of work to cnc port a head.Its not that fast.We do our development work with a grinder and a bench & dyno.All the cnc does is mirror what we have already done over and over.Its far cheaper for me to pay someone else who has already done the R&D than to do it myself if were only doing one.Save your self the pain and pay someone who does Honda ports for a living do it.
Glenn

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We cnc port heads 8 hours a day with two Fadal five axis mills.We weld and port stock heads as well as manufacturing our heads from billet.It takes alot of work to cnc port a head.Its not that fast.We do our development work with a grinder and a bench & dyno.All the cnc does is mirror what we have already done over and over.Its far cheaper for me to pay someone else who has already done the R&D than to do it myself if were only doing one.Save your self the pain and pay someone who does Honda ports for a living do it.
Glenn</TD></TR></TABLE>

Awesome...that's kinda what I was looking for. I had already thought (with quite a few serious fabricators on here) that someone might already have an autocad drawing of a ported head....which could obviously come in handy for me, albeit almost certainly at a price.

 

yeah that would be awesome if somebody was giving out free cad files but its not going to happen. I used to run a cmm at my old job and now i wish that i had gotten more dimensions off my head. that thing came in handy for making all sorts of stuff.

 

If you want CNC head programming, get ready to fork over a lot of money.

Programming is proprietary and people don't like to share, thats how they put food on the table.

If you want a porter such as RLZ, Endyn, Rocket, etc to make a program for you, expect to pay $4,000+.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want CNC head programming, get ready to fork over a lot of money.

Programming is proprietary and people don't like to share, thats how they put food on the table.

If you want a porter such as RLZ, Endyn, Rocket, etc to make a program for you, expect to pay $4,000+.</TD></TR></TABLE>

See...the idea was that if i HAD a ported head handy, I could draw it up by the CMM, and port it....it take some time, but I'm sure you get the idea.

 

I know Brad at RLZ ports a head, and digitizes it with a fancy swing arm thingy...

 

Sean you can use my head.

 

To get the most power doesnt the heads flow characteristics need to be matched with the cam combo and the C/R? You should just send your head off and get it ported by the pros who have flowbench and dyno charts to prove the gains.

Just my .02c

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .nate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To get the most power doesnt the heads flow characteristics need to be matched with the cam combo and the C/R? You should just send your head off and get it ported by the pros who have flowbench and dyno charts to prove the gains.

Just my .02c</TD></TR></TABLE>


I couldnt agree with you more but I guarantee most of these CNC head porters are just using a generic program for all around gains. I think most people seem to think that a CNC'ed head is superior but if the head wasnt any good in the first place then all theyre doing is copying a junk head.

Unless the CNC'ed head was designed to your specs I'd have it done elsewhere.

 

Here's how its done:

http://www.centroidcnc.com/cnc...d.htm

 

Wow...badass video.