91 Accord EX-R (Canadian model, 5-speed).

Had occassional no-start problems, so I checked the usual stuff, MainRelay/Ignitor/Coil. It always started EVENTUALLY, sometimes only after lots of cranking.

I replaced the cap/rotor and the Main Relay and Ignitor and if fixed the cold-start issues, first start of the day is now problem-free, even at -20*. I don't think the coil is bad, it checks out okay and it probably wouldn't be intermittent anyway.

I get a stumble (bad enough that I can feel it) and CEL now after driving a while (10-15 minutes), and get the hard-start issue ONLY after CEL has come on. If it sits just a few minutes it'll start (lots of cranking, like 10 seconds or so). BUT, if it sits for 10-20 minutes it WON'T start, won't even fire a little bit. Wait another 20 minutes or so and it'll start right up (NO CEL at first, it'll stumble and come on later though).

Here are my codes:

1 (O2 sensor)
8 (TDC sensor)
15 (Ignition output).

This started recently (the no-start-at-all bit) when it got really cold up here (Montreal).

Anyone know what to check/replace/fix before I give up and take it to the dealer (last resort....) Sorry this is really long, but I wanted to get all the info in here.

Thanks in advance.

Steve in Montreal


Modified by harleyhollywood at 1:36 PM 1/17/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by harleyhollywood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone know what to check/replace/fix before I give up and take it to the dealer (last resort....) Sorry this is really long, but I wanted to get all the info in here.

Thanks in advance.

Steve in Montreal


Modified by harleyhollywood at 1:36 PM 1/17/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't be sorry. There's no such thing as too much detail when trying to diagnose problems on the internet.


Your TDC and ignition output codes could cause a no start condition. The O2 code would not. I have nothing else useful to offer. Hope someone can help you out.

 

#8 will cause your problems since it cannot know where the piston is and that is bad. I would work on that one first. Bad 02 will cause car to burn more fuel but not affect it's running like that

 

I'm thinking TDC sensor and/or connections to it. My reasoning:
If the TDC Sensor were to 'wig out' (so-to-speck), it would cause

1) The ignition system to fail (ignition output) because of the ecm loosing that reference signal. and
2) The o2 sensor would report out-of-range to the ecm (O2 Sensor) not only from the raw gas from the extended cranking and the subsequent rich condition when it does start up again.

TDC and Crank Angle Sensors have been known to be temp sensitive when they fail.
Just a few random thoughts...

P

 

Thanks for the replies so far.

Here is another symptom/clue that I forgot to mention before.

When it's in it's "I don't wanna start" condition (with CEL on after running for a while) it won't rev OVER 3500 or so RPM, it sputters/misses as if getting no gas and/or no spark. This originally had me thinking fuel-pump, but the RPM range it happens at doesn't change whether it's in 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc gear, light or heavy throttle, or whether just revving at a stop with no load. This is a guaranteed sign for me that it won't start easily next time. When I have no CEL it runs/pulls right up to redline no problem.

So I thought it can't be fuel related, or the cutting-out rpm would be different depending on conditions/load (right?)

And, if it was related to spark advance based on ECU mappings, it would again happen at different rpm under different load/vacuum conditions.

Sooooo, would I be correct in assuming that maybe the COIL isn't capable of "keeping up" with the voltage needed to fire at those higher rpms?? Is it possible at all that the coil is not bad all-the-time, but maybe is going bad after it runs a while/gets hot? I'm just completely guessing here, but has anyone had this happen?

Personally I've never had this happen, but I'm much more familiar with Carbed V8's without electronic controls, I can fix that kind of stuff in my sleep

 

get a new distributor and coil.

 

that's fail safe mode to prevent engine damage.

 

No, it still points to the TDC sensor.
As YeuEmMaiMai mentioned, it is in Fail-Safe mode when this happens.
In effect the ECM fixes the advance curve and other perameters. The ignition becomes more 'retarded' as the rpm's increase; thus the sputtering etc.

P

 

Sounds like a fuel problem to me.....
Pump or filter or maybe the pickup.

 

99% of the time the TDC code means the distributor is dead. without a properly working distributor you are **** out of luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">99% of the time the TDC code means the distributor is dead. without a properly working distributor you are **** out of luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay boys and girls, based on all the reponses, I've ordered my new distributor (130 bucks on ebay, complete). I'll be back friday to let ya know if it works!

If it does, I'll be trying to sell all the other parts I bought in the last few weeks (main relay, Ignitor, etc)

Thanks for the help so far.

-steve

 

Allright, changed the Dist and so far so good. Drove it maybe 30 miles and no driveability issues, althought the CEL came on AGAIN, this time codes 3 and 13, (MAP sensor and Atmospheric Pressure, so TDC/Ignition and the other sensor issues are taken care of). I checked tightness on everything I moved/unplugged, reset the computer, and now all is fine (cross fingers....)

If I get more issues on those two codes I'll start a do another search and start a new thread if necessary.

BTW, I got a BRAND NEW dist complete with coil/ignitor/cap/rotor for $131 US on ebay, popped it on in 10 minutes, and it is great. That's about how much I paid for JUST THE IGNITOR last week.

Thanks a bunch,

-steve