1992 Honda Accord 4Cyl 5spd, NO MODS.

This first started when my oil light came on. It would blink several times, go off a few minutes, come back, stay on.

I immediately checked the oil and there was NO knocking. It quit running and wouldnt start. The engine did NOT lock up.
It took it apart, put it to TDC & I found the timing had jumped 2 teeth on cam (Both times the car was sitting still idling), so I put a NEW timing belt on, set the timing, put it all back together.

It ran PERFECT. I drove it for like 20 minutes, then the oil light started doing the same thing, it came back on, went back off came back on and stayed on. The engine sounded perfect.

Then the timing jumped again and it quit running

So I have it all back apart now.

What is wrong? Bad oil pump? Bad Oil Pump Gear? What should I replace?? Did the oil pump lock up?


Modified by marino13miami at 6:42 PM 1/3/2006

 

It could be just the oil pickup screen that's clogged up. In this situation the oil light will not be on from the start, but will come on more and more as you run the engine. Don't see how this would make the timing belt jump time though.

 

There have been several threads through here of late complaining of low oil indicator lamp coming on. Turned out in two cases, sludge buildup in the pan was clogging the pump pickup and a third had hit the oil pan; driving it up against the oil pump pickup, restricting the pump - light came on.
There is no direct correlation between oil pressure loss and the timing belt save one:
The Camshaft
IF the camshaft were momentarily seizing in the head from oil pressure loss, it could conceivably cause the belt to jump time. IE:
Cam sprocket stops rotation while the Crank / belt try to turn it along.

A long shot I know, but it's the only scenario I can come up with.

P

 

Thats sounds about what I was thinking. Anyone else got any ideas before I spend $200 on an oil pump.

 

Before you pull the trigger on a $200.00 pump, may I make some suggestions.
Pull the oil pan and inspect the bottom and the oil pickup first for sludge and any other reason for oil starvation.
Oil Pumps (Other than some aluminum bodied GM 90d V6) normally do not wear out. They are, after all, the most continuously lubricated piece in the entire engine.
The second thing to look at is the camshaft bearing surfaces in the head. Look for any galling or scoring on the load bearing surfaces.

P

 

All the camshaft bearing surfances are clean except the near the #3 and it look it looks like dried oil (redish). What would this indicate? I just pulled the oil pan, and am in the process of checking for clogging.

 

This is strange... I haven't heard of anything like this before, but I think I'll take a stab at it based on what common sense tells me.

When any type of bearing wears out, spinning it at a high rate will cause excessive heat, which can cause any oil around the bearing to dry up. You may have a bad camshaft bearing at piston #3, which may be causing the camshaft to seize and throw your timing out of whack. The oil pressure sensor may sense the seizing of a rotating part which is one of many things that will cause your oil light to come on. Check the bearing with the red stuff around it, that may be the source of your problem.

 

Heres a picture of the cam. Tell me what you think.






Modified by marino13miami at 11:33 PM 1/3/2006

 

OK, My oil pan is off and this is what I found:

Oil Strainer has lots of sludge (SHEETS OF OIL) in strainer partly blocking flow. Some small metal shavings(silver) in pan and strainer.

Should I CLEAN or BUY a NEW oil strainer? Clean the Oil pan and then re-install the timing belt etc and see if the oil light comes back on?

Should I still remove the oil pump and inspect anything?

 

I would think that just cleaning it should be fine. Clean the sceen and pan good and put it back together.

may be a stupid question but when you replaced the timing belt you did set the tension properly correct? Like maybe the spring that sets the tension could be worn out maybe? I don't know, just a thought.

 

just thought of something..on the t-belt tensioner first of all, did you put the hole, in the nipple that is on the block >> ?? and secondly you did not put a 10mm bolt holding the tensioner down did you ??? i have seen it more than once that people think that a bolt should go there , but if they install the bolt the t-belt will not tension properly,,
And oh by the way ,,your engine is too dirty , that is why the pick up screen is gummed up.....you obviousely do not do oil changes soon enough ,,,,,,,,,,,after you put all together, run some oil detergent for an hr or so, drain all the oil and do it again, drain the oil again ,,,,put regular oil and drive, do an oil change in about 500 miles , than another in about 1000 miles ,,than once every 3000 miles..,,I hope that you have not worn the bearings to badly

 

if you got metal shavings in your oil pan, it's time to find out what is about to die on your engine.....

 

I think....you're looking at the cam lobes, the camshaft bearing surfaces are located under those towers where the rocker assembly bolts to the head. Here's an illustration:
http://www.hondaautomotivepart...+HEAD

P

 

Tension is set properly.
Yes, I do oil changes regularly every 2700-3500 miles. Ive only owned the car 2 years.

Honda did the first timing belt change right before I bought it.

I just did the second timing belt change because of the jumped timing.

and now..Im doing a third....(second this week)

If I pull the oil pump off, What will tell me its bad????????????

I want to make sure everything is right before I put it back together.

Should I buy a new Oil Strainer? or...How do I clean the old one? (as there is no way to take it apart?)




Modified by marino13miami at 7:33 AM 1/4/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marino13miami &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tension is set properly.

Modified by marino13miami at 6:23 AM 1/4/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
if tensioner is set ok,, than you got something seizing up momentarely ( cam, water pump ) while another component is spinning, or something getting in the way ( washer, bolt, ) and making t-belt jump ... because if everything is poperly set and tight , there should be no reason for t-belt to jump.. chk closely at all the components involved,,chk to make sure the tensioner alignment hole is inside the nipple,

 

Any1 else have any ideas about how the oil light is related. Because the oil light never appeared on until about 5 minutes before the first timing jump.


Then when I put the second timing belt on. I thought it was fixed. Car ran great with NO oil light for 20 minutes. Then BOOM oil light came on, jumped timing.


So the oil light is related... I just need an opinion on:

Should I remove the oil pump and clean it? Buy a new one? Or just clean the pan and strainer and put it back together?

 

just replace the oil pickup and clean the oil pan, you should be okay after that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dannym &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just replace the oil pickup and clean the oil pan, you should be okay after that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree,,,............... that's got to be a reason for the t-belt to jump.......I have seen engines with oil lite on, rod bearings melted to almost nothing, loud knocking noise but t-belt never jumped............like i said something is rotating while another is not ,,causing belt to jump, .......have you checked to make sure everything is also ok with the balancer belt??

 

Yes, Balancer belt was intact.

 

Lets just say the cam temporarily stopped rotating because of lost oil. Could this cause the timing to jump. If I put it back together, although some damage has been done. It should run correctly like before. But am I going to get the problem again?

 

yes

 

WHY? If I fix the clog

 

because once you have metal shavings in your oil, it is time to find out what part has not been lubracated. You definately have damage that is causing your t-belt to jump.
My car has over 143K on it and I have never had issues with my t-belt jumping.........

 

You are saying I have damage causing my timing belt to jump. But you arent giving me any answers at all. Not even what it "COULD" be?

Its easy to tell me I have damage. Anyone can do that. No one has told me why If I fix the CLOG and/OR replace the oil pump will it not fix my problem of the timing belt jumping.


This isnt a 2006. Its a plain ol 1992 that I drive around town. Im not trying to build anything here.

 

how can i give you answers as to what it could be?

lack of oil = friction = massive wear on metal parts that are in contact with each other. I am not there to see the engine so how can i tell you what part it is?

I would start with the valve train.

Not it will not fix your problem because once you have metal shavings in the motor, it's already too late.

I would have fixed this problem the first time around instead of waiting to for now to finally figure out what is wrong.