motor swap help f22 to h23
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From: city, ca
motor swap help f22 to h23
gettin ready to swap my f22a1 to a h23a1 never done a swap before lookin for some help before i go into this, do i need to change the engine harness? is the ecu the same for these motors? will the throttle body off my f22 bolt direct to my h23, whats the timing on the motors, and any other information i may need to know for doing this, thanks
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From: northern DRUNKit, ma
Re: motor swap help f22 to h23 (stuntman)
the harness from your f22 could work but you will need to run some wires to the ecu which the f22 doesn't have. if you can use the h23 harness i would depending on wether or not you have one.
the timing you can set with a timing gun by using the window in the bellhousing. search for threads on seting timing, its been cover alot
the throttle body of the f22 is smaller than the h23 but will bolt up. i recommend getting a h23 one.
the ecu is also not the same , though for start up purposes and checking codes at idle the stock f22 ecu will work bu tyou must get the p14 for the h23
the timing you can set with a timing gun by using the window in the bellhousing. search for threads on seting timing, its been cover alot
the throttle body of the f22 is smaller than the h23 but will bolt up. i recommend getting a h23 one.
the ecu is also not the same , though for start up purposes and checking codes at idle the stock f22 ecu will work bu tyou must get the p14 for the h23
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From: Killeen, TX, USA
Re: motor swap help f22 to h23 (prelittlelude)
doing the same thing my engine is seized and I wanna atleast have something that will be good to boost later down the road so H23 I heard is best for that... besides the block and the ecu what else do I need? someone said since mine is 93 Prelude that the tranny will fit a H23... but I don't know about that... let me know... about the harness and wut not.... thanks
-Adrian
http://www.jdmdreams.net
-Adrian
http://www.jdmdreams.net
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Re: motor swap help f22 to h23 (stuntman)
Theres a book titled HONDA ENGINE SWAPS by Aaron Bonk available at cartechbooks.com. I own a copy and used it to research a swap I paid to have done (I'm not mech-inclined) - a JDM F22B replaced my totaled H23A in my 93 Si with A/T (so I'm lazy...).
The F22B bolts right up, the OBDCI is fine with the F22B, but I have a few D4 codes being thrown which I can't figure out. One thing I learned is that a JDM swap makes you personna non grata at the local Honda dealers.....
If you need some more specific info, I'll look at my book and try to find it for you.
rich
The F22B bolts right up, the OBDCI is fine with the F22B, but I have a few D4 codes being thrown which I can't figure out. One thing I learned is that a JDM swap makes you personna non grata at the local Honda dealers.....
If you need some more specific info, I'll look at my book and try to find it for you.
rich
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From: Killeen, TX, USA
Re: motor swap help f22 to h23 (rmckim)
alright I have a F22A1 not the F22B which I think is SOHC cam 2 isn't it but came in accords? the f22a1 comes in the 4th gen lude S model it's SOHC... H23A1 is of course DOHC, I was told the tranny from the f22a1 will bolt right up to the h23a1 and the same wiring harness could be used, but I would of course need a h23 ECU ...
-Adrian
Modified by JSpekBB4 at 8:22 AM 1/9/2006
-Adrian
Modified by JSpekBB4 at 8:22 AM 1/9/2006
Joined: May 2005
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From: Gaithersburg, MD, US
Re: motor swap help f22 to h23 (JSpekBB4)
The gearing on the f22a1 tranny is much longer then that of the h23a1, which could be good for turbo , depending on your setup, but would be annoying until you do so.
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From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Re: motor swap help f22 to h23 (prelittlelude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the harness from your f22 could work but you will need to run some wires to the ecu which the f22 doesn't have. if you can use the h23 harness i would depending on wether or not you have one.
the timing you can set with a timing gun by using the window in the bellhousing. search for threads on seting timing, its been cover alot
the throttle body of the f22 is smaller than the h23 but will bolt up. i recommend getting a h23 one.
the ecu is also not the same , though for start up purposes and checking codes at idle the stock f22 ecu will work bu tyou must get the p14 for the h23</TD></TR></TABLE>
My H23A to JDM F22B swap in a 93 Si with A/T required no electrical mods at all - totally plug-compatible, OBDI ecu, but it is throwing some codes which we're trying to figure out. It starts hard when temp is less than 40 degrees but runs fine even with the codes when warm....
the timing you can set with a timing gun by using the window in the bellhousing. search for threads on seting timing, its been cover alot
the throttle body of the f22 is smaller than the h23 but will bolt up. i recommend getting a h23 one.
the ecu is also not the same , though for start up purposes and checking codes at idle the stock f22 ecu will work bu tyou must get the p14 for the h23</TD></TR></TABLE>
My H23A to JDM F22B swap in a 93 Si with A/T required no electrical mods at all - totally plug-compatible, OBDI ecu, but it is throwing some codes which we're trying to figure out. It starts hard when temp is less than 40 degrees but runs fine even with the codes when warm....
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Re: motor swap help f22 to h23 (JSpekBB4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSpekBB4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alright I have a F22A1 not the F22B which I think is SOHC cam 2 isn't it but came in accords? the f22a1 comes in the 4th gen lude S model it's SOHC... H23A1 is of course DOHC, I was told the tranny from the f22a1 will bolt right up to the h23a1 and the same wiring harness could be used, but I would of course need a h23 ECU ...
-Adrian
Modified by JSpekBB4 at 8:22 AM 1/9/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
The F22B is DOHC from the JDM Accord. OBDI works with it. F to H & H to F swaps in the 4th Gen are no-brainers mechanically. All trannys, engine mounts bolt right up. Its considered a Beginner-level swap.
CYA
-Adrian
Modified by JSpekBB4 at 8:22 AM 1/9/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
The F22B is DOHC from the JDM Accord. OBDI works with it. F to H & H to F swaps in the 4th Gen are no-brainers mechanically. All trannys, engine mounts bolt right up. Its considered a Beginner-level swap.
CYA
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From: Killeen, TX, USA
sorry I am a retard but wuts a OBDI and is there anyone that can just make it simple like.... you need : h23 engine any F or H tranny , P14 ECU ... and what wiring harness that would be awesome cuz I'm lost
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From: Springfield, va, us
if you just want your car to run and drive fine then you can use ANY F or H tranny except the s2k tranny of course. you can use either the h or f harness but the f`s to my understanding dont have a knock sensor and you would have to wire that up a p14 ecu with a h23 would be better because of fuel curves and stuff like that. thats as far as i know. hope that helps...
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Re: (JSpekBB4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSpekBB4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry I am a retard but wuts a OBDI and is there anyone that can just make it simple like.... you need : h23 engine any F or H tranny , P14 ECU ... and what wiring harness that would be awesome cuz I'm lost</TD></TR></TABLE>
An OBDI (there is also an OBDII ECU in newer Ludes - 5th Gen I think) is the type of ECU that your year Prelude has. More than that I don't now since I didn't do the swap myself. It was installed, the key turned, and bam - on the road in minutes.
Any H to F or F to H swap should work with any Lude tranny - they bolt right up. F to H and H to F swaps are beginner stuff, BUT the ECU type - OBDI or OBDII could, just possibly, be an issue. I just don't know the nitty gritty details cause my swap worked out of the box and everything fitted together fine (bolts, ecu plugs, electrical connections, everything).
I have NO IDEA what this P14 is - maybe its a part number for either the OBDI or OBDII ecu? So many guys on these forums throw so many inside slang references around that it can drive you crazy. I suspect that many of them don't REALLY know what they're talking about or just want to impress the rest of us. Combine that with the bad spelling and bizzare grammer and you have a mess, which is what most of these forums are. But they're usually the only info source available, so we're stuck with them.
Good luck. If you need more info, I'll try to help you.
An OBDI (there is also an OBDII ECU in newer Ludes - 5th Gen I think) is the type of ECU that your year Prelude has. More than that I don't now since I didn't do the swap myself. It was installed, the key turned, and bam - on the road in minutes.
Any H to F or F to H swap should work with any Lude tranny - they bolt right up. F to H and H to F swaps are beginner stuff, BUT the ECU type - OBDI or OBDII could, just possibly, be an issue. I just don't know the nitty gritty details cause my swap worked out of the box and everything fitted together fine (bolts, ecu plugs, electrical connections, everything).
I have NO IDEA what this P14 is - maybe its a part number for either the OBDI or OBDII ecu? So many guys on these forums throw so many inside slang references around that it can drive you crazy. I suspect that many of them don't REALLY know what they're talking about or just want to impress the rest of us. Combine that with the bad spelling and bizzare grammer and you have a mess, which is what most of these forums are. But they're usually the only info source available, so we're stuck with them.
Good luck. If you need more info, I'll try to help you.
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From: Killeen, TX, USA
thanks for all the help guys/gals (just incase) haha so let me make a list of wut I need....
1.)h23a1 engine
2.)tranny I already have out of my f22a1
3.)OBDI ECU
4.)I can use my wiring Harness from my F22a1, getting a H23 would be better?
is this right?
is that about right?
1.)h23a1 engine
2.)tranny I already have out of my f22a1
3.)OBDI ECU
4.)I can use my wiring Harness from my F22a1, getting a H23 would be better?
is this right?
is that about right?
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 15
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From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Re: (JSpekBB4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSpekBB4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for all the help guys/gals (just incase) haha so let me make a list of wut I need....
1.)h23a1 engine
2.)tranny I already have out of my f22a1
3.)OBDI ECU
4.)I can use my wiring Harness from my F22a1, getting a H23 would be better?
is this right?
is that about right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe that your wiring harness should be fine. The ease of H to F and F to H swaps in Ludes indicates that the OEM Lude harness will work fine.
rmckim
1.)h23a1 engine
2.)tranny I already have out of my f22a1
3.)OBDI ECU
4.)I can use my wiring Harness from my F22a1, getting a H23 would be better?
is this right?
is that about right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe that your wiring harness should be fine. The ease of H to F and F to H swaps in Ludes indicates that the OEM Lude harness will work fine.
rmckim
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Re: (JSpekBB4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSpekBB4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh and does anyone know a good place to look for a engine preferably h23</TD></TR></TABLE>
It took me many days (weeks?) of internet searches to find a reputable source for an F22B JDM replacement for my blown H23A. The used H23A engines are very expensive, which is why I went with the F22B JDM. Like 3 - 4 times as much as the F22B. Honda made many more F than H engines.
I eventually found a reputable Canadian dealer in Ontario and bought from them. The engine was perfect. However, some of my contacts for engines in NJ or CA were like dealing with a mafia front company - really..... IF you could even understand their "english". A little voice said "no way" and I heeded it, thankfully. You can get screwed easily.
eBay motors at least has SOME protection for you if you get a bad H23.... But the individual web dealers that sell used/rebuilt H23s are a mixed lot. Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware. If they're not local are you gonna drive a 1000 miles to complain? Or arrange shipping for a 300 lb engine AFTER you've had it removed from your Lude when you found it was a POS?
If you really want only an H23 in your lude, I'd suggest 1) having your H23 rebuilt locally - or at least in the area, where you can go and bitch in person, maybe go to the BBB, whatever. 2) Buying a used H23 locally where you can also go and bitch in person. 3) Buying from a reputable internet supplier - and they will charge royally because they know how scarce these engines are. 4) Expect to pay about $1500-2000 for a GOOD used H23A....
My F22B JDM cost $550.00 for the engine (38K on it, really), and I paid an independent installer who I located from an Autozone counter guy (really) $500 to install it. I've got some sensor issues to fix and it will prob cost me another $200 for those. But the F22B is a sweet, smooth engine for an Si - same or more low end torque but less high end power due to different cams. But overall I'm pleased with it.
Hope this helps.
It took me many days (weeks?) of internet searches to find a reputable source for an F22B JDM replacement for my blown H23A. The used H23A engines are very expensive, which is why I went with the F22B JDM. Like 3 - 4 times as much as the F22B. Honda made many more F than H engines.
I eventually found a reputable Canadian dealer in Ontario and bought from them. The engine was perfect. However, some of my contacts for engines in NJ or CA were like dealing with a mafia front company - really..... IF you could even understand their "english". A little voice said "no way" and I heeded it, thankfully. You can get screwed easily.
eBay motors at least has SOME protection for you if you get a bad H23.... But the individual web dealers that sell used/rebuilt H23s are a mixed lot. Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware. If they're not local are you gonna drive a 1000 miles to complain? Or arrange shipping for a 300 lb engine AFTER you've had it removed from your Lude when you found it was a POS?
If you really want only an H23 in your lude, I'd suggest 1) having your H23 rebuilt locally - or at least in the area, where you can go and bitch in person, maybe go to the BBB, whatever. 2) Buying a used H23 locally where you can also go and bitch in person. 3) Buying from a reputable internet supplier - and they will charge royally because they know how scarce these engines are. 4) Expect to pay about $1500-2000 for a GOOD used H23A....
My F22B JDM cost $550.00 for the engine (38K on it, really), and I paid an independent installer who I located from an Autozone counter guy (really) $500 to install it. I've got some sensor issues to fix and it will prob cost me another $200 for those. But the F22B is a sweet, smooth engine for an Si - same or more low end torque but less high end power due to different cams. But overall I'm pleased with it.
Hope this helps.
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From: Killeen, TX, USA
Re: (rmckim)
ok so the F22B you have is wut DOHC Non-VTEC or SOHC Vtec? and wut car did they orig. come in cuz thats how car-part.com finds em.... 550 sounds alot better than wut I was gonna pay...
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F22b=DOHC 2.2L
H23a1=DOHC 2.3L
F22ax=SOHC 2.2L
OBD=On Board DIagnostics
OBD0 or Pre-OBD= generally cars from 88-92
OBD1= 92-96 Cars
OBD2a/b=97 and UP cars.
P14=ECU for h23a1
All f22ax, h23, and h22 trannys are compatable from 92-96
From Worst to Good for gears ratios they are
F22
H23
H22
Of course turbocharged engines would probably gain from using the h23 tranny instead of the h22, because they would stay in the gear longer allowing the turbo to do more work.
Doing the swap from an f22ax motor to an "H" series motor should only require running four wires and swapping the ecu's
Knock Sensor-Not present on the f22ax motors
Vtec Pressure sensor
Vtec Solenoid
Intake Air Bypass Solenoid
Really simple swap compared to some of the others out there.
H23a1=DOHC 2.3L
F22ax=SOHC 2.2L
OBD=On Board DIagnostics
OBD0 or Pre-OBD= generally cars from 88-92
OBD1= 92-96 Cars
OBD2a/b=97 and UP cars.
P14=ECU for h23a1
All f22ax, h23, and h22 trannys are compatable from 92-96
From Worst to Good for gears ratios they are
F22
H23
H22
Of course turbocharged engines would probably gain from using the h23 tranny instead of the h22, because they would stay in the gear longer allowing the turbo to do more work.
Doing the swap from an f22ax motor to an "H" series motor should only require running four wires and swapping the ecu's
Knock Sensor-Not present on the f22ax motors
Vtec Pressure sensor
Vtec Solenoid
Intake Air Bypass Solenoid
Really simple swap compared to some of the others out there.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 206
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From: Killeen, TX, USA
Re: (alkaloidz)
alright someone knows there stuff haha so I'm gonna go look for a f22b engine and wut ecu do I need a f22b ecu or my f22a1 ecu? and since I'm swaping those to engines would I still need to run wires?\
and you said the f22ax trannys are compatable with the h series does that mean my f22a1 tranny will work with a f22b right?
and you said the f22ax trannys are compatable with the h series does that mean my f22a1 tranny will work with a f22b right?
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 15
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From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Re: (JSpekBB4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSpekBB4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alright someone knows there stuff haha so I'm gonna go look for a f22b engine and wut ecu do I need a f22b ecu or my f22a1 ecu? and since I'm swaping those to engines would I still need to run wires?\
and you said the f22ax trannys are compatable with the h series does that mean my f22a1 tranny will work with a f22b right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your ECU is likely an OBDI. They did have OBDII in some later 4th Gens, though, I think. Your existing ECU and existing trans should work fine. Ask your F22B supplier which OBD is needed to be certain. Maybe both will. But the tranny isn't an issue at all. And you might have to clamp or spot weld the existing knock sensor to the block of the F22B. Its just a vibration sensor anyway. My installer just clamped it with a little C-clamp. Its fine. But since I always run premium, I don't much care.
Go to this link for more info:
http://answers.google.com/answ...72435
Good Luck.
and you said the f22ax trannys are compatable with the h series does that mean my f22a1 tranny will work with a f22b right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your ECU is likely an OBDI. They did have OBDII in some later 4th Gens, though, I think. Your existing ECU and existing trans should work fine. Ask your F22B supplier which OBD is needed to be certain. Maybe both will. But the tranny isn't an issue at all. And you might have to clamp or spot weld the existing knock sensor to the block of the F22B. Its just a vibration sensor anyway. My installer just clamped it with a little C-clamp. Its fine. But since I always run premium, I don't much care.
Go to this link for more info:
http://answers.google.com/answ...72435
Good Luck.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 206
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From: Killeen, TX, USA
alright that some good info but I have a f22a1 in my car not a h23a1 and that is explaining wut to take off the h23a1 and all that stuff.... and the F22B I'm looking for only came in the 5th gen accords right? the 97-00 or wutever like that site says...... let me know!, Thanks!
-Adrian
-Adrian
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 15
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From: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Re: (JSpekBB4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSpekBB4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alright that some good info but I have a f22a1 in my car not a h23a1 and that is explaining wut to take off the h23a1 and all that stuff.... and the F22B I'm looking for only came in the 5th gen accords right? the 97-00 or wutever like that site says...... let me know!, Thanks!
-Adrian</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, since you're replacing an F for an F, and since ANY F swap is considered a no brainer in a Lude, I don't think there would be any prob. They both use essentially the same block. One source says the F22B was used in the 94-97 Odyssey and Accord. If that's 5th Gen, I don't even know (or care). What I do know is replacing your S SOHC engine with an Si DOHC is gonna really improve your attitude (and altitude), especially in the mountains out there. That's why you need an experienced, honest source for your F22B. They know this stuff from experience.
CYA
-Adrian</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, since you're replacing an F for an F, and since ANY F swap is considered a no brainer in a Lude, I don't think there would be any prob. They both use essentially the same block. One source says the F22B was used in the 94-97 Odyssey and Accord. If that's 5th Gen, I don't even know (or care). What I do know is replacing your S SOHC engine with an Si DOHC is gonna really improve your attitude (and altitude), especially in the mountains out there. That's why you need an experienced, honest source for your F22B. They know this stuff from experience.
CYA
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