Alot of guys have wondered what these cams can do in a stock JDM ITR motor. Well I tried sorta.... I did a little porting and polishing on my ITR head and put some Skunk2 Srings and Retainers in the head to make sure the cams dont make the valves float. I kept the bottom end stock and just used a thinner head gasket to raise my compression up a little. I used the Mugen Gasket along with ARP Head Studs. I assembled the motor and dropped the cams in. Set the valve lash to .007 on the intake and .008 on the exhaust. Rotated the motor to make sure everything was fine and dropped the motor back in my Integra. I took it easy for a while driving so everything could seat in good and all and after about 1200 miles I did a valve adjustment again since the cams had broke in. I set to the same tolerences and then took it out for a spin. I drive it up the road and it pulls damn hard and then I hit VTEC and pull up to about 8,000 or so just to see how everything is doing also monitoring my A/F ratio to make sure its fine as well.

When I slow back down the car doesnt idle, I had to keep the gas pushed in to keep it running. Well I get it back home and start diagnosing the problem, Im looking at the cam timing, the ignition timing, spark plugs, everything imaginable. Everything turns out to be working properly. So I do a leak down test where I put number one cylinder on TDC on the compression stroke and see if the cylinders are leaking, I found that they were leaking 87% so that leaves one of two things, either my rings are not there at all or I have bent valves. I proceed to take the head off and sure enough all the Intake valves are bent very slightly. So Im guessing that the head gasket dropping the head down made me have clearance problems when VTEC is engaged. I am throwing my Skunk2 cams back in the head after my new intake valves are installed and calling it a day, so this is just a reminder if you are going with a cam this big make sure you have the right clearances on the VTEC lobe as well cause the regular primary and secondary lobes are not quite as big as the VTEC lobe and it will cause clearance issues if you arent careful.

BTW I had my cam gears set at 3 degrees advance on the Intake and 3 degrees retard on the exhaust. So there shouldnt have been a problem with that.

I will use these cams again in the motor Im currently building with 84-85mm bore 13:1 compression pistons, and I will have them fly cut to make sure I have clearance this time...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...so this is just a reminder if you are going with a cam this big make sure you have the right clearances on the VTEC lobe as well cause the regular primary and secondary lobes are not quite as big as the VTEC lobe and it will cause clearance issues if you arent careful. </TD></TR></TABLE>

weird I coulda sworn both Skunk 2's and Budddy Club Spec 4's have the same lift?

Buddy Club IV 12.3mm, duration 306@1mm 11.8mm, duration-302@1mm

Skunk2 stage 2 12.3 mm, duration 266 @ 1mm 11.8 mm, duration 262 @ 1mm

 

it wasnt the lift at a certain point that got my valves, there is a lot bigger overlap on the Buddy Club Spec 4s and the duration that the cams are held open is alot larger on the buddy club cams as well so its not only the lift its the duration of how long that lift is held. Plus the Skunk2 cams I have are Stage 1's not stage 2's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it wasnt the lift at a certain point that got my valves, there is a lot bigger overlap on the Buddy Club Spec 4s and the duration that the cams are held open is alot larger on the buddy club cams as well so its not only the lift its the duration of how long that lift is held. Plus the Skunk2 cams I have are Stage 1's not stage 2's</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont think its the cams faults your motor's valves got bent. I think it was a lack of tuning. I have a very similar motor setup to yours with Buddy club 4's and Ive tracked my car reving to 9 with no problems.
For comparison, after tuning we set my cams at +3 In +1 ex

 

always gotta clay a motor guys...... when you're moving those gears around you are guessin what the lobe centers are....Degreeing them in would help you alot to know where those valves are gettin to tight. Yes +3 intake and +1 might work for Guil, but the other guys motor is different. Not every motor has the same lobe centers by running the same cam and same cam timing.

 

Hmm, Im sure I had the timing set correct, I know its tricky with the buddy club cam gears but I had them set perfect where they were set. What head gasket are you using, and what pistons?

You said you had yours at the track, on the circuit or at the drag strip??? Cause thats what I built mine for was all motor at the drag strip.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sheepey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">always gotta clay a motor guys...... when you're moving those gears around you are guessin what the lobe centers are....Degreeing them in would help you alot to know where those valves are gettin to tight. Yes +3 intake and +1 might work for Guil, but the other guys motor is different. Not every motor has the same lobe centers by running the same cam and same cam timing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
my point was that blindly running +3In and -3Ex is not a good idea. Cams should really be adjusted by someone who who is experienced and IMHO a Dyno is best.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm, Im sure I had the timing set correct, I know its tricky with the buddy club cam gears but I had them set perfect where they were set. What head gasket are you using, and what pistons? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah the first set of BC cam gears sucked, I wasn't sure if I had my timming correct either. No Horizon marks is a shitty idea.
Im running a oem 1-piece head gasket and oem JDM ITR pistons
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1194241


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You said you had yours at the track, on the circuit or at the drag strip??? Cause thats what I built mine for was all motor at the drag strip.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Church tuned it for all purpose, either track or strip

 

[<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GUILOTINE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
my point was that blindly running +3In and -3Ex is not a good idea. Cams should really be adjusted by someone who who is experienced and IMHO a Dyno is best. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Cool cool, I understand your point. Next is NO dyno can tell you what the lobe centers are at. It only reads power......when people are moving the gears around, they're just guessin the lobe centers and moving them to where they think it makes good power. But some manf. say to run 102 and 108 lobe center for best performance. And you set your cams at +2 and +1 and it makes good power....is that 102 and 108? who knows but if you did know you would get ALL the power out of the cams......

 

the clearances should be enough that I would be able to run -3 on the exhaust and +3 on the intake is all that I am saying. I did have some trial and error running. I use my wideband and tune accordingly, I know you need HP and Torque curves to really tune the cams in. I always start at 0 and 0 and work my way out trying different settings to get them dialed in. I found that the +3 on the intake and -3 on the exhaust worked fine up until i adjusted the valves which in turn made the valves open more and got a little too close to the pistons. It wasnt a major valve bend the motor was still holding some compression so it was just a hair that glazed the valves. I do know it ran damn good up to that point... Props to Buddy Club all the way though. I really never thought about it but it could have been spring failure too, maybe i just got the lemons out of the bunch???

 

timing is everything on these motors. I just didnt have something set right or something cause they clashed... but it'll be fine when its back together, Im prolly gonna sale the Skunk stg 1's and get a set of BC 3+ or Skunk stg 2's to put back in the car. The Stg 1's are too small for the porting and polishing that is done on the head and intake manifold.

 

i dont feel like reading all the posts but when you spun the engine after installing the cams to see if they hit did you lock it in vtec to see if it hit there at all?? since thats where you said it started to go bad is when you hit vtec...

 

Listen to Sheepey, he is trying to give advise. I moved the pulley to #$%^&^ is not degreeing in the cams. Surfacing, head gasket thickness, etc. means the gears have nothing to do with the actual cam timing, just correcting it.

 

say hello to new valve guides on those bent valves too.

how about the seats?

 

 

i do have a question for you tech guys on here. The sheet that came with the cams tells you to degree the cams at xx degrees ATDC and a certain xx BTDC, yada yada yada. I know how to degree in cams its just when they say that do they meen to degree the VTEC cam lobe in or the primary or the secondary to those specs??? Im wanting to say the VTEC lobe. When degreeing the cams in with the VTEC lobe, how do you engage the VTEC on the engine stand???

 

They mean the VTEC lobe, to lock VTEC you swap the locking pins in the primary and VTEC rocker arm to keep it engaged at all times.

 

How do u do this with the motor still installed in the car, cause those shafts that hold the rockers must come out in order to do this right??? Has anyone tried messing with air pressure to engage the VTEC pins??? cause there is a port on the front of the head that is tapped into the oil supply for VTEC, can u hook an air supply up to that port with a constant 65-75 psi and engage VTEC???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How do u do this with the motor still installed in the car, cause those shafts that hold the rockers must come out in order to do this right??? Has anyone tried messing with air pressure to engage the VTEC pins??? cause there is a port on the front of the head that is tapped into the oil supply for VTEC, can u hook an air supply up to that port with a constant 65-75 psi and engage VTEC???</TD></TR></TABLE>

so basically you want to "fake" the solenoid with air pressure instead of oil pressure?

 

yep, i dont know if anyone has tried it or not but I am gonna try it before I take some rocker arms out.

 

i havent nor have i heard of anyone trying it...
let us know how it goes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone tried messing with air pressure to engage the VTEC pins??? cause there is a port on the front of the head that is tapped into the oil supply for VTEC, can u hook an air supply up to that port with a constant 65-75 psi and engage VTEC???</TD></TR></TABLE>

Read the Helms manual, that is the recommended procedure. You can make a NPT fitting that attaches to an air line and is secured in the plug.

With large cams it is essential to check clearances before fireing up the motor.

Did you install the cams on the correct centerline?

 

Yes I did install the cams on the right centerline I just adjusted them too much after I got them installed. Im not putting these cams back in the motor. For now Im putting some Skunk2 Stage 1 cams in cause I drive the car daily, but I am eventually putting the Buddy Club IV's back in. I am using a smaller head gasket this time around to raise compression up some more. Im using the Buddy Club 1 pc head gasket. I had the Mugen on the motor when the valves bent.

I just got the head back last night so Im gonna go down and start putting the motor back together. But I need some help on the Skunk2 Stage 1 numbers, What timing are alot of u guys running on these cams???
Valve Opening
xx degrees
xx degrees
Valve Closing
xx degrees
xx degrees

Thanks guys

PS Ill let u all know how the air pressure trick works.

 

Listen to the man, he knows a bit about engine building

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omniman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the intake and exhaust valves will hit each other if the intake is more than 4.5- 5 degrees 2-2.5 marks advanced over the exhaust. your bent valves were the result of improper cam timing not a faulty product. typically you want to run them about 3 degrees apart max, which leaves about .008in between the valves at over lap during vtec engagement. the 200 whp b16 video it talks about this in the cylinder head section. just some friendly advice.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for the info, Im sure thats probably what happend. Now do u have any idea what to degree skunk2 stage 1 cams in at. Im gonna put them somewhere close to stock ITR cams if I cant find some cam specs.