I was wondering if it would be fine running toda spec a's with stock gsr internals and stock redline. I know it's fine with the skunk2 stage 1's. Just trying to see if toda's will be fine also. Gonna do my swap soon and don't wanna drop it in without a little more power. Plus, I'm going to be ordering a chipped ecu from either kenji or phearable so might as well get the cams now.

EDIT: Also, if anyone is selling those or ctr/itr cams let me know.

 

anyone?

 

i would run itr valve springs for 11.5mm lift

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Oldskool teggy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would run itr valve springs for 11.5mm lift</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah.. but i'm just wondering if it's ok on stock gsr valvetrain. i know about the whole itr/gsr valvetrain setup. just wanna see if it'll be ok to run toda a's and/or s2 stage 1's on stock gsr valvetrain.

 

people will tell you it will be fine at stock redline...but why risk it? valvesprings are a great investment. Better safe than sorry

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dat_EM1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">people will tell you it will be fine at stock redline...but why risk it? valvesprings are a great investment. Better safe than sorry </TD></TR></TABLE>

Word

 

Ok,

what i was telling you was that you cannot run stage ! or Toda A on stock valvetrain.

gs-r intake springs BARELY clear 11.5mm ITR cams on the intake side, and remember the dual springs are only on the intake side of the gs-r. toda and skunk stage 1 are a tad bigger than 11.5mm with more duration as well, therefore it will not work.

furthermore, there is no way you want to run a single valvespring on toda or stage 1 cams. you definately want a valvespring in there that can clean 12mm lift, but ITR will do. seriously though, buy the best, and dont cheap out.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well said.

 

From Skunks website.....
Stage I: Stage I profiles are designed to offer the widest possible powerband and be compatible with factory valvetrain components. These camshafts are designed to retain stock idle and are currently CARB EO-pending. Upgrading to Skunk2 Racing valve springs is recommended. Stage I profiles are relatively easy to tune for maximum power output.

Do what you think is right, thats all I'm gonna say, and I'm not gonna say I disagree with Teggy.

 

aight.. thanks for all of the replys. just didn't want to pull the head and have to buy a new headgasket yet. cuz if i pull the head i might as well work on the bottom end and go more aggressive on the cams.

 

why do you need to pull the head to change valvesprings?

 

well i'm not gonna have any compressed air to keep the valves from dropping. also i've heard another method using string or yarn to fill the cylinder.. but not too sure about that way. i mean if it'll be that simple with the yarn trick or if there's another method then let me know. i'll upgrade like that right away.

 

umm ok dude.. but you know there's a tool that allows you to change the springs without removing the head.. wtf you get compressed air from? that sounds seriously ghetto.

just find a good mechanic to do it and none of that backyard ****, if your mechanic doesnt even knwo where to ge the damn tool

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Oldskool teggy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">umm ok dude.. but you know there's a tool that allows you to change the springs without removing the head.. wtf you get compressed air from? that sounds seriously ghetto.

just find a good mechanic to do it and none of that backyard ****, if your mechanic doesnt even knwo where to ge the damn tool</TD></TR></TABLE>

before you start saying anything... what i was talking about is how to keep the valves from dropping when you change the valvesprings. i know there is a tool to remove the valvesprings.. but there isn't a tool to keep the valves from staying where they are. so what people do is keep air in the cylinders so that the valves stay in position.

i don't even know how that sounds "seriously ghetto" when that's how a lot of people do it. now as for the yarn trick.. that was just something i read about on honda-tech...

 

I've always pulled the head and used a spring compressore that is air powered.....maybe thats what this guy is talking about.

 

Compressed air ghetto? I don't think so, you need to fill the cylinder with air to keep the valves from dropping when you remove the keepers, just like jdmkrazie said.

As for the valvetrain question, I'll be the bad guy and tell you that it's ok to run the cams on the stock valvetrain. I also have a stock compression B18C1, and I'm actually running Blox Type B's on the stock valvetrain. These cams are similar to Skunk2 Stage 2's so I believe it's around 12.5mm lift? I've had a couple over revs past 8k, but for the most part, I try to keep it under redline, which is 8k.

I get a lot of heat on hater-tech about how my **** is gonna blow up because I didn't upgrade the valvesprings. Truth is, I've had this car running for almost a year with the stock valvetrain and I haven't had any problems at all. I do reccommend that you upgrade your valvetrain because it's cheap insurance, but if you're strapped for cash like I was at the time, then I don't think you'll have any problems on the stock valvetrain. I myself plan on ordering some valvesprings in the near future, I just can't justify buying a $100 tool just to put them in.

Good luck with your project, hope this helped.

 

thanks for the response paopao

 

No problem. I was questioning running stock valvetrain for some time, then I just decided to do it. There were a bunch of horror stories about people dropping valves with stock valvetrian and upgraded cams, but they also involve mis-shifts, over revs, and bad tunes.

I remember people told me I was stupid for putting Type B's in a stock compression GSR, and that I wouldn't notice any gains. Well, it laid down 180/130 on a Dynojet w/bolt ons, so this just goes to show that you don't need compression to run big cams. I probably could've had 190 w/11.x compression, but it's not worth the hassle of pullin motor and swapping pistons. I wanted quick power, and swapping cams w/good tune was just the remedy.

Knowing this, you could probably run even bigger cams than Stage 1's, and see some very nice gains .

 

damn.. i might have to pick up some local toda spec b's

 

My buddy Jason Whitfield @ Rage used air to keep the valves up on my old GSR/nitrous motor when he did the Supertech valvespring and retainer change. no problems at all....

 

learn from others peoples mistakes... and do things right the first time....

obviously there will be times where you have to make that crucial decision, and for some, it's worked. paopao said himself that he gets alot of heat for not upgrading his valvetrain, and i agree with them.

however, skunk2 stage1 cams are designed to just drop in. valvetrain most definitely recommended, but not required -- especially if you're below 8k.

and what do i do with my setup? (b18c1, i/h/e, skunk2 stage1).... i dont shift that high because i stop making power... simple as that great power, no problems. i love it btw, they're up for sale now

using compressed air to hold the valves up, btw, is not ghetto...

using nylon rope fed through the spark plug hole then raising the piston up to hold the valves is.... but it does work

 

What it comes down too is money. Not everybody has stacks laying around to dump into their car. Like most people, I'm just a regular guy who likes to upgrade his Honda, and I don't have much money between my car and my kid. If I had the money to buy an upgraded valvetrain, that would be my next purchase. But since it's been holding up fine for almost a year now, I don't see the need in replacing the valvesprings right away.

As for the criticism for not upgrading the valvetrain, that's fine, you guys can keep saying that it's gonna blow up and that it "doesn't" work. Truth is I've been doing it for a year, and my car pulls nasty .

Edit: SINIGANG .

 

yeah i agree completly. i'm gonna just upgrade my valvetrain also.. just gotta find out what cams i'm going to run. thanks again for all the input.

 

put very nicely paopao

whatever you end up running jdmkrazie good luck with it

 

both times i did vavletrain, air was used to hold in valves without taking the head off.

i have sk2 st2s on 11:1 comp gsr, i only made 181whp here at 1600ft, thats on a 4 month old motor with less than 6% leakdown all across..

wonder if i'm over cammed..

just had my head done by portflow and a 73 to 69mm throttle body added....car needs more fuel, looks to be running leaner....