hey guys we are starting to plan out our fsae car...i was wondering if anyone had any 90's helms manuals for cbr's....im not 100% positive what year the motor is...donated i guess...but just gettin a heads up if anyone out there has an info on this stuff...

 

http://stephygee.com lower left side click the buttons to download the manual. not a helms but damn good.

 

what school do you go to?

i was on the UIUC fsae team for a few years

 

Just now starting to design?!?

 

yeah seriously... our planning starting last spring...

 

yea we are in our rookie year...gettin the funding an ground laid down 1st planning on competing in 2007....im actaully from umass lowell...being a state skewl we have a hard time gettin funding...but hopefully we'll get this off the ground

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kulrevon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://stephygee.com lower left side click the buttons to download the manual. not a helms but damn good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks i def appreciate it!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1st planning on competing in 2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good Idea. Go watch 06 though.

 

coolness, let me know if you goto the '06 comp, i may very well be there with the UF fsae... if we ever finish our car.

ohh, and check out the CBRworld.net forums for manuals, they have the actually honda service manuals linked to on there, which are the best you can get

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StrangerWitCandy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ohh, and check out the CBRworld.net forums for manuals, they have the actually honda service manuals linked to on there, which are the best you can get </TD></TR></TABLE>

http://forums.cbrworld.net/for....aspx

They might be the same but more is better.

 

lemme give you a few tips. I was on our team but the advisor and I didn't get along so I bounced. anyways I have friends on there and I was on the team for a half a year. for your car you're gonna want paddle shifting, most of the cars that win are turbo (simply make more power easier), make sure you're super critical about the safety specs (having to go home from the comp because you didn't pass safety sucks), don't be a dick about who drives - just choose who's best (our team always seemed to have tons of politics involved with who drove), there's some really good books around about race car design - i forget the names but they're crucial, sponsors are your friends, get a good engine to begin with (we've been using f4i motors for years, i kinda wanted to go yamaha r6 or something but the team was gay about it), get a good tuner - don't choose someone who's like yeah yeah I think im aight (I've seen enough dyno tunes on our motors and only a few of the tunes were actually good, ignition tables were all over the place and the powerband was all fucked up), and don't become obsessed. one of the main reasons I left our team at Virginia Tech is cause people are obsessed. we had an interview process to get on the team. I ended up getting a good friend on and he became team leader. Great person for the job but the advisor hated me and some other kid for some reason... There's a lot of politics now with the teams and I'm happier that I'm not on it. they typically work 25 hours a week and when a lot needs to be done - 40 hours. No thanks when I'm taking 16 other credits....

 

ya our team is rather lack luster being a rookie team having not competed in the last 10 yrs...i myself have quite a backround in a lot of aspects having built from the ground up & tuned my turbo integra...I feel i have a lot of knowledge to add to the team...but personally we'rew not going out there to win...we just want to have some fun build a reliable car that runs well...we dont have much to work w/ as of yet...a motor donated from somewhere...believed to be a f3i...ill prob be pulling it all apart...making sure eerythings to spec...being only a soph/junior i dont have a lot of design backround...i just know and have seen what works...so basically were gettin on our feet...estalishin our team and how to go about doing this...id say about 60-75% of our team has very very basic knowledge of cars...nevermind fabrication, motors...and esp suspension....

ive dug a few good books on chassis & suspension stuff...but in due time ill have a bunch of stuff figured out...ill def be hittin the comp hopefully gettin some insight on how to improve our car etc...

 

there's no such thing as an f3i there's the f2, f3, f4, and f4i. expect to use dry sump or else you'll really ruin the motors as they're not made to have lateral g's and also likely you'll put it on its side to lower the center of gravity...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EngineNoO9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there's no such thing as an f3i there's the f2, f3, f4, and f4i. expect to use dry sump or else you'll really ruin the motors as they're not made to have lateral g's and also likely you'll put it on its side to lower the center of gravity...</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks ill take that into consideration...also is there any info on extracting more power from these motors...and what are some recomendations for dry sumps...and any other info you guys think might help...book recomendations...

 

you're not gonna get much more out of it unless you cam and port and polish it. even so you're running a restrictor and a turbo is the only real way to get power out of it... dry sump - just look at how things work and other various books at your library.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EngineNoO9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you're not gonna get much more out of it unless you cam and port and polish it. even so you're running a restrictor and a turbo is the only real way to get power out of it... dry sump - just look at how things work and other various books at your library.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ya ive search around our library already...havent found to much info...one of my team members has some SAE papers that he thinks might shed some insight...i doubt we'll be turboing our kart being a rookie team...def something i personally would want to do...i love boooooost!...but were going w/ the KISS attitude...

 

If you want it, here's some advice from me - This is Jeremy Hrdy's tips for building a race car. I've been doing this for 3 years now, on the dirt side of things (Baja).

1.) The Milliken brothers, Carroll Smith, and Paul Haney just became your new best friends. Buy their books. In fact, buy 2 sets. Make everyone read them. Keep a copy of "Nuts, Bolts, and Fasteners" beside the bolt bin.

2.) McMaster-Carr is God. Don't forget that.

3.) Design is highly iterative. Don't forget that. If your first revision looks good, it sucks. If it looks great, it still sucks.

4.) You're right about KISS. Complex breaks. Simple is light. If it makes the car go forward, it doesn't need to make coffee too.

5.) NA is Best. The reason teams that do well with turbos do well is because they have a pile of blown up **** sitting at home. You don't have time to deal with that, keep it simple, less **** blows up. Slow and Reliable beats Quick and Broken everyday of the year.

5a.) That said, wieght is the enemy. THE enemy. Like, of everything. Heavy cars can't turn, put more stress on the parts of the car, waste tires faster, and can't stop. It doesn't matter what kind of power you're making if the car is a fatass. Plus, you'll get raped in design with a heavy car.

6.) Build a good shop. Organize well now, that way, when it comes down to the wire, it's only a **** storm, instead of a clusterfuck. Build a good construction table (or two, if you have room). I suggest optical breadboards, but they are very expensive. In order to get accuracy in building the car, you must first have accuracy in the base.

7.) Jig EVERYTHING.

8.) Testing makes or breaks a car. One month of testing, minimum. Murphy WILL come calling, it's not an If, it's a When. Testing lowers the chance he makes a visit on raceday.

9.) If you get a chance, try doing a cost engineering study on the car. We lost 14 pounds just by seeing what could be made cheaper. It doesn't sound right, but it worked. Pure fab is cheaper than machining.

10.) This rule I say in slight jest, but it has a serious undertone. You don't know ****. Don't forget that. Learn anything and everything you can. Ask questions, call experts, go to the SAE seminars, take notes.

11.) This is for your mental health. Never, ever lose your sense of humor. While this may contradict a lot of what you see, but I've seen people crash and burn because of this stuff, it's not pretty.

12.) EngineNo09 mentioned the time put in every week. 25-40 hours. That's not a lie. Come race time, 40 is on the low side. That's what it takes, no way around it. Know that now, it staves off insanity later. With that said, it's only a car, it's only a race. If you can't make the grade, you can't make the car.

13.) Lucky Number 13 - Learn to write on a napkin, some of our best ideas have been had at the bar. Those good ideas turn into good designs the next day at the shop.

14.) Following up on that one, write down EVERYTHING. Mere conversations are easy to forget. Keep records. Carry a design journal around, when something hits you, write it down for later. Save them. When your time is up, make copies, and pass them down to the designers taking your place.

Have fun in your parking lots, go join baja when you want to do some REAL racing. I'll even let you think you have a chance of beating me.


Modified by Goullish at 2:43 AM 12/12/2005

 

well the teams that run turbos have been for awhile and have very good cpu's. cornell's cpu is supposedly better then most professional units you can buy. I don't doubt it. in the beginning though focus on the rest of the stuff. once you get things like chasis and the rest of the design set then 3-4 years down the line maybe try it. like I said though i wouldn't go less then a dry sump, and fuel injection. Standard shifting with a handle is fine for now cause like you said you're starting out. The paddle shifting was given to me buy people who won and a GM test driver who said there's no reason not to have it. Honda engines tend to be the cheapest too so might as well stick with them. and also testing like the other guy said is crucial. last year's car here didn't get finish until right before the comp. they had iterations before hand but not the final car. only had about 2 months testing. not nearly enough... also those books he mentioned are the ones i was referring to. couldn't remember the names. Anyways. good luck

 

thanks guys i really appreciate all the help...i feel as if i dont know to much of building a car from the gorund up but do have an extensive car backround...more so than others on my team...i thin k were going ot have an extremly hard time gettin going...but i for sure aint a quiter...so hopefully we can pull this off....also any tips on gettin $ or donations...us being a state skewl we get some $ but most likely not enought to complete the car...any ideas on what has worked for you etc....thanks

 

just start calling people. our car had goodyear, ford, and several other large sponsors as well as small local ones. If you need a purchased part like brake calipers call the company and explain it and ask if they can give a donation or discount.

 

awesome thread. I read SAE's Automotive Engineering monthly mag religiously and wished our school did fsae when I was a student.

I probably should have been an ME instead of EE but I do love the electronic controls side of it.

Good luck guys. Lots of good advice in here, not just for fsae either.