I just returned from Cali for the VIP AutoFashion show, and got in my car to run to the store. It ran fine, nothing abnormal. I went to the gas station, filled her up, and when I tried to start her, she just turned and turned. I pushed her out of the way and disconnected the ECU for a few minutes. Reconnected it and she started right up. Idled for a few minutes and rev'd her, still fine. A minute later, the CEL just flashes once as she just stops dead. CEL doesn't stay on as if there is a code stored. I leave the ignition off for a few minutes, and she starts right up. What could be going on??

 

ECU fault or a short in a sensor?

 

That's what I'm thinking. It's so quick that it seems like the ECU. A sensor might make the car stutter and die, but she runs fine, then the CEL pops and within half a second, she's dead.

 

Make sure gas cap is on properly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Elvis1977 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Make sure gas cap is on properly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gonna run out and check that now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Elvis1977 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Make sure gas cap is on properly.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that could cause an EVAP code but certainly wouldn't cause the car to just die!

Did you check to see if you can pull any codes from the ECU?

 

Yeah, I've had the CEL code for the loose gas cap when my mother drove the car. This isin't it. It hasn't cut off on me today, (knock on wood) but I haven't driven it much. I'll take it down into town tonight to check the ECU for codes, tho it still hasn't thrown the CEL on yet. It does in fact, just DIE. It's fine, idles smooth, doesn't choke, just cuts off the same instant the CEL flashes once. FLASH + DIE = .8 seconds = great frustration for me.

 

its not a sensor, when sensors mess up, as you said, the car begins to sputter like it wants to cut off but keeps running besides the occasional stall.

 

Suppose I picked up a bad tank of gas... if the fuel lines sucked up a little water her and there, would that instantly cut the car off? Furthermore, would the CEL just pop on as it did when the car dies? Hopefully this isin't a recurring thing. I'm off to work now, lets see if she makes it another day without stalling.

 

Possible loose ignition?

 

Could very well be bad gas.

 

elvis dude you're hung up on gas aren't you?

water in the gas will not cause a car to throw a code <u>and die.</u> Nor will the gas cap being loose or even not being installed at all.

I hate to say it AFAccord but I suspect your ECU is the culprit here. Sounds like when you disconnect it it's resetting itself, allowing it to run again for a bit until the trouble reoccurs. I wouldn't expect the ignition, even if intermittent, to make the car just stop running immediately. It would diesel for a bit since the engine would still be turning and not everything else would shut right down...

 

Well, I've driven around base all morning on jobs and the car hasn't shown any signs of trouble yet. CEL still hasn't come on, but I checked for codes anyway. None. The light only flashes once as the car is dying. Other than that, it never shows its ugly face.

B, you know your stuff, but I'd hate to think that you're right this time. Like I said, so far, it hasn't died in two days. I'd rather figure this out, than let it fix itself. That way I'm not driving around worried about it.

The more I think about it, the more it does seem like a fuel problem. Fuel pump churns like normal when the ignition is turned on, and there's no leaks around the fuel rail or injectors. I didn't run it out of gas before filling up, but I did push it to around 400 of my usual 425 miles per tank. Just makes me think there was something nasty that made it to the bottom of the tank.

Is there any sure way to isolate the ECU as the culprit? Would it be worth lifting the fuel pump out and checking the sock filter first?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AFAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd rather figure this out, than let it fix itself. That way I'm not driving around worried about it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I feel you there!! The worst feeling is just not knowing.

I can't think of an easy way to pinpoint whether or not it's the ECU, short of putting in another one and seeing if the problem reoccurs, however most people don't have an extra ECU just laying around. (even I only have one stock ECU! LOL)

it wouldn't hurt to take a look at the fuel pump to ease your mind but I doubt highly that it would be the problem. the "sock" filter is more like window screen than a sock.

plus the way you describe it, just kicking on the CEL and then whamo - the car's dead - doesn't sound like a fuel issue to me unless the fuel pump is just suddenly losing signal. a clog woudn't cause that behavior.

OHH! just thinking now about your "not knowing" situation this came to mind - I had a similar problem when my main relay went out on my civic. The car would just shut off (no CEL) when it felt like it, and then magically once I let it sit for 10-15 minutes would start back up. That turned out to be my main relay. (which certainly is fuel related!)

I also had the main relay go on my 6th gen coupe a couple of years ago. While I never had the car just stop while driving, it would just not start at all. It happened more frequently when it was very warm outside. Took me a LONG time to figure out what the hell was going on.

Try this: if the car shuts off on you again and will not start up, reach up underneath the dash and SMACK the main relay <u>hard</u>. Give it a good whack. (yes seriously) Then see if the car starts. If it does, you've found your problem. That's how I finally isolated my no-start condition. When the car wouldn't start I'd smack the relay and it would start right up.

If that's it, the relay is only like $30 from the dealer.

HTH -B

 

Thanks B. That definitely sounds like a good thing to check. Question though. With your relay problems, would the car not crank at all, or just not turn over? Also, when the relay would go out, does/did that disable all electronics, or just the engine's ability to run?

 

I think with a bad relay, the engine does not turn at all. By the way, I have a 98 accord with 140k miles and no problems like what you are describing. I dought it seriously if it was the fuel pump in the tank. Have you replaced ignition switch under recall for 6 generation accord 4-cyl's?

 

Your vehicle may be involved in a Honda Recall for Ignition Switch failures (it shows up on the NHTSA web site )(electrical portion) which fail much as you discribe.
A call to the local Honda dealer may be in order (could be a free-bee!!!)

P

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AFAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With your relay problems, would the car not crank at all, or just not turn over? Also, when the relay would go out, does/did that disable all electronics, or just the engine's ability to run?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the car will just not turn over. it will crank and crank and crank but never start. the main relay controls the "on/off" signal to the fuel pump, so what happens when it's bad is that the fuel pump just never turns on (or if it happens while you're running it shuts the fuel pump off) and you get no fuel to the engine.

It does not disable any other electronics. It just causes the fuel pump to never come on.

I have read that the main relay also controls the electrical signal to the ECU but I do not know if that is correct or not.

 

That sounds exactly like my problem B. Just cranks and cranks but never turns over. I was testing P_Adams theory yesterday. I had the car running and just flipped the ignition barely off and right back on. That recreated my problem right down to the single flash of the CEL. I printed the recall off NHTSA's website, and will be making a dealer appt soon. I'm still weary about the main relay. How much would that cost to replace?

 

Definitely check with the dealer ship re: that recall, they can pull your vin and tell you whether or not the car was affected by the recall and if it was performed.

The main relay is like $30 from the dealer and it's simple to replace, just in a awkward location under the dash.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notoriousB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have read that the main relay also controls the electrical signal to the ECU but I do not know if that is correct or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>Check the wiring drawing in the Helm book...

The main relay is really 2 relays together in the same case. One switches power to the ECU, injectors, & most solenoid valves in the car. The other relay switches power to the fuel pump when the ECU tells it to.

If the 1st relay were to fail, then ECU wouldn't start, you wouldn't get the 2-second CEL bulb-check, etc... But apparently it's the 2nd relay that always fails.

 

I've had that happen to me to. but I checked all of those things and I didn't have a CEL light.

 

Well, still no CEL or codes... yesterday afternoon, the car hiccuped once as I was pulling out of the parking lot. Other than that, no other recurrences. I have an appointment at the dealership tomorrow to have it looked at. The NHTSA report states that there are 1,000,000 cars affected, so I'm thinking it's just a late catch that eventually affects all of the listed vehicles. If the problem occurs after this repair, I will be looking at the main-relay as the bug.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Check the wiring drawing in the Helm book...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I never cared enough to check, but thanks for the info!

 

[<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AFAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The more I think about it, the more it does seem like a fuel problem. Fuel pump churns like normal when the ignition is turned on, and there's no leaks around the fuel rail or injectors. I didn't run it out of gas before filling up, but I did push it to around 400 of my usual 425 miles per tank. Just makes me think there was something nasty that made it to the bottom of the tank. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Guarantee you that was it. Happened to me once. Car did it like 2-3 times before it finally started and stayed running and then I beat *** to the nearest gas station. Never a problem since.