GM is making its move next year as a support only role for drag racers.
This means that anyone who is building a COBALT will have the exact formula
to build a competitive TURBO 4 or SFWD class car with their extensive knowledge
from their ECOTEC PRO FWD and HOTROD programs.

Essentually what is happening next year is that TURBO 4 SFWD will be the place where the most heated racing is going to happen like a mini Hotrod class. Although GM won't have a direct presence but it will be felt by grassroots racers like us in the Honda Camp.

It is sad to see Jason H. and Brian B. jumped ship to the GM camp like Gary G. They are real competitors and want to go faster like all of us so I wish them the best of luck with their new deals. Is this a trend that we are going to see in the upcoming years? Is it going to convince you to switch to a Cobalt?

So I ask you Honda racers:

1. How fast do you need to go next year to be competitive?
2. Do you think racing an Automatic GM car is fair when we have to use manuals?
3. Anyone building something to meet the challenge?
4. How excited do you get when you see an all Honda finals? Will it get boring to see two or even six automatic GM cars racing for the top spots at every race?
5. Which type of racing do you prefer? Automatic or Manual?


Modified by cul8tr at 11:03 AM 12/3/2005


Modified by cul8tr at 11:03 AM 12/3/2005


Modified by cul8tr at 11:04 AM 12/3/2005


Modified by cul8tr at 11:07 AM 12/3/2005


Modified by cul8tr at 1:16 PM 12/3/2005

 

Hey thats racing not much we can do except to jump ship like everyone else.It would be nice since the new release of the civic that honda would throw more support to the drag racing esspecaily since there probally be getting out of the IRL, due to contract issues.

 

so you are saying that you are willing to do anything to win even if it means changing brands? Wheres the love?lol

I don't see Honda or any other manufacturers investing any more dollars into drag racing. It looks like a privateer effort from this point on unless we get more
crowds to the races. Drifting is taking the media spotlight at the moment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cul8tr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So I ask you Honda racers:

1. How fast do you need to go next year to be competitive?
2. Do you think racing an Automatic GM car is fair when we have to use manuals?
3. Anyone building something to meet the challenge?
4. How excited do you get when you see an all Honda finals? Will it get boring to see two or even six automatic GM cars racing for the top spots at every race?
5. Which type of racing do you prefer? Automatic or Manual?

1. IMO to be competitive in SFWD/T4 in 06' the car has to run 9's consistently.
2. no, i don't think that using an automatic GM car is fair when we have to use manual,but since when is the rule book fair.
3. i have a hatch in the workx that should be competitive.
4. **** mon, all honda final, im lovin it. 2 or 6 automatic GM cars racing for the top spots is 2 or 6 too many.
5. Manual all the way for SFWD/T4


Modified by cul8tr at 11:03 AM 12/3/2005


Modified by cul8tr at 11:03 AM 12/3/2005


Modified by cul8tr at 11:04 AM 12/3/2005


Modified by cul8tr at 11:07 AM 12/3/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I totally agree with you. If autos are allowed for GM cars, then can we use the GM Hydomatics in our cars legally? It sure saves a lot of money on tranny parts and makes for closer racing .

 

I say bring them on,the more the merrier,full fields is where its at.

I don't see any of the top competitors in T4 or SFWD complaining cause they know what they have to do,as a matter of fact they are probably planning as we speak.

The biggest thing we have to worry about with the GM auto's is the 60ft,so that tells us Honda guys to work on ours. Our biggest problem this year was our 60ft then i got hold of the scales and did some corner weighting and played with the suspension,the 60 went from 1.77s to a 1.61 on a 24.5....I have been using the same tranny for 2 years now,shredding 3rd gear only once doing the burnout,so if the tranny is done right you will have no problems.

Not to throw no digs at anyone,but,maybe they need to make a turbo street class on radials T3 hot side,for those who cant afford or dont have the knowledge to step up there game.

I have more to say but i have to get my but to work.

 

First off Brian will not be using a detuned hotrod motor. It can be the same with a larger turbo(rules allow it) but on gas. The hp output is very close with gas.. GM has a killer race program that we could all learn from. All of the GM guys are willing help and share information to see GM succeed. MOST Honda guys are the opposite and dont want to share any learned benefit for the camp. Just look at the K series all motor guys they are very tight lipped about any speed secrets.

I believe you will have to run mid to low 9's to go rounds and win. Low 10's will make the show. Until there is a tire, turbo and tranny rule in t4 that class is gonna keep getting faster and more expensive. It is really out of reach for most grassroots racers now.

 

I think the Mopars may have a better shot this year. More money, 2 cars from
my camp, lots of free dyno time, and a nice new sponcer. We are stepping it up!

Steve

 

We are sponsoring a very competitive SFWD Honda for next year. I don't see GM as a problem. As to automatic transmissions, their HotRod tranny cannot be used. It must be the tranny available with the car, which is much different. It will cost GM power to run an automatic. Gardella v Lumas proves that auto trans vs the stick, you will get about the same ET's but less top end speed with the automatic.
It will definitely take mid 9's to be competive. The turbo size limits along with no methanol and exotic chassis modifications will take away any GM advantage.
There is only one thing that scares me about GM. Their travel budget and stock of spare parts, i.e. money. There is no independent racer that can compete with that.

 

First off Brian will not be using a detuned hotrod motor. It can be the same with a larger turbo(rules allow it) but on gas. The hp output is very close with gas.. GM has a killer race program that we could all learn from. All of the GM guys are willing help and share information to see GM succeed. MOST Honda guys are the opposite and dont want to share any learned benefit for the camp. Just look at the K series all motor guys they are very tight lipped about any speed secrets.
I believe you will have to run mid to low 9's to go rounds and win. Low 10's will make the show. Until there is a tire, turbo and tranny rule in t4 that class is gonna keep getting faster and more expensive. It is really out of reach for most grassroots racers now.
___________________________

What thats news to me. So what does this mean? 1200-1300 horsepower by my calculations. Yeah that really sucks because you know a B series tranny will not hold that power. It is nice to see Racer Steve in the MOPAR hunt.

Yes, I understand that we Honda guys are tight lipped, but who isn't tight lipped. That what makes racing fun and challenging.

So Tracy are you jumping ship to GM? It looks like the hot setup.lol

 

It must be the tranny available with the car, which is much different. It will cost GM power to run an automatic. Gardella v Lumas proves that auto trans vs the stick, you will get about the same ET's but less top end speed with the automatic.
It will definitely take mid 9's to be competive. The turbo size limits along with no methanol and exotic chassis modifications will take away any GM advantage.


Not in Turbo 4. They are allowed to use those trannies as long it is from the same manufacturer.

There are no turbo sizing limits in Turbo 4. NHRA has a turbo limit of 72mm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cul8tr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What thats news to me. So what does this mean? 1200-1300 horsepower by my calculations. Yeah that really sucks because you know a B series tranny will not hold that power. It is nice to see Racer Steve in the MOPAR hunt.

Yes, I understand that we Honda guys are tight lipped, but who isn't tight lipped. That what makes racing fun and challenging.

So Tracy are you jumping ship to GM? It looks like the hot setup.lol

</TD></TR></TABLE>Not quite that much power, somewhere between 800-1000. You can use the hydromatic in t4 but not in sfwd where it must come as stock.

It is quite a hot setup but not in 06 for us.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpeedDreamz.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> MOST Honda guys are the opposite and dont want to share any learned benefit for the camp. Just look at the K series all motor guys they are very tight lipped about any speed secrets.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

AMEN and that is what happened in P4 also

my guess

after the 2006 season is over the honda in SFWD TURBO 4 will do like the guys in P4 instead working together and share any learned benefit for the honda camp

they will just whinne and begg to slow down the GM's

 

...well, what ever the case my be, its gonna be real interesting.
oh man, i can't wait!

 

To me, it's all about transitions. A Cheap affordable car back in the day was a civic and it had a lot of potential and the street racing scene was on and popping. A motorswap and the addition of the bottle,turbo,supercharger,headwork, bore, and slicks you were a front runner. This was your weekend racer/daily driver. Now, people are transitioning more to the professional side and wanting to go faster with most reliable parts, so you can't really hate GM for doing what they are doing when in fact this was their intention all along..r&d,test,develop and sell. Winning is everyones ultimate goal but it doesn't always come out that way, I think those who have true passion for the sport will come out compete anyway whether it's a high 10 or low 11 sec car. Passion will not allow you to sit and watch.

Everyone should concentrate on their own programs and projects rather than GM's...you know what they're bringing...do they know what your bringing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by C Squared Motorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think those who have true passion for the sport will come out compete anyway whether it's a high 10 or low 11 sec car. Passion will not allow you to sit and watch.

Everyone should concentrate on their own programs and projects rather than GM's...you know what they're bringing...do they know what your bringing</TD></TR></TABLE>

I Agree 100%

"I think those who have true passion for the sport will come out compete anyway whether it's a high 10 or low 11 sec car. Passion will not allow you to sit and watch."

Spoken like a true Racer

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpeedDreamz.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It is really out of reach for most grassroots racers now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aggressivemotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Not to throw no digs at anyone,but,maybe they need to make a turbo street class on radials T3 hot side,for those who cant afford or dont have the knowledge to step up there game.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


Cause and effect. I think it's a great idea.

 

i'd be more worried about the dsm's actually showing up and not breaking...

 

I Agree 100%

"I think those who have true passion for the sport will come out compete anyway whether it's a high 10 or low 11 sec car. Passion will not allow you to sit and watch."

Spoken like a true Racer

______________________________

I totally agree. The reason why I love this class so much is that the cars still look like street cars. I don't think the current Pro 4 and hotrod classes relate well for the average street spectator. Everyone has to start somewhere. I know that I didn't go run a 10sec pass my first time out. It took time, money, knowledge and patience.

This class is like the 10.5 inch tire street renegade mustangs. Original bodywork and glass with no tubbing makes for fun racing. Even though it is not obtainable for most people, at least the technology used in these cars can be directly transferred into a real street car. You never know, you might just see 8 sec capable FWD daily drivers competing directly with the domestics in the future.

 

i'd be more worried about the dsm's actually showing up and not breaking...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, I think Shep has that covered pretty well and proven that any car can run fast if you put enough time, reseach and money into it. DSM's have been out just as long as the Hondas and how much more reliability can you get out of them?

How many championships has a DSM won since the inception of this class. FWD will still rule the class for a long time whether or not it is domestic or import. You ask why? It comes down to cost per run. How much does it cost to make one 9 sec pass. 2 cents

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aggressivemotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not to throw no digs at anyone,but,maybe they need to make a turbo street class on radials T3 hot side,for those who cant afford or dont have the knowledge to step up there game.

I have more to say but i have to get my but to work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed


Modified by h22 civic at 1:07 PM 12/3/2005

 

Now, no one take any personal offense when I say this but, I don't have any problem with it. In my opinion the cars are not going to be any better than what a honda can put out. At the end of the day you still have to be the better driver. I personally look forward to kicking there asses!!!!!!! Why, because it will give the driver's that do so a lot more recognition than the ones that are driving them. Second to that, one of the guys might make it a 5 speed anyway. Now that exedy has the twin disc available. I know that GM has the ability to run a whole season on the same motor, but **** We do that on our honda's... I would look more forward to seeing the top honda's in the class for domination than the GM's...

 

At the end of the day you still have to be the better driver. I personally look forward to kicking there asses!!!!!!!
_____________________________-

Great Jason, I will let you do all the driving next year in my car and see who shifts more consistently( . An Automatic takes less skill to drive and is more consistent overall. It is also easier on driveshafts and such but makes for boring racing.

 

Its all or nothing in this class next year. I know Ill be lucky with a sub 10 second pass but it wont stop me from trying with every ounce of money and effort that I have.. If someone hits it hard and sets new standards you have to adapt, think outside the box and innovate.. come back harder&gt;&gt; nah meaan!
Race because you love to race, win or lose.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dublocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its all or nothing in this class next year. I know Ill be lucky with a sub 10 second pass but it wont stop me from trying with every ounce of money and effort that I have.. If someone hits it hard and sets new standards you have to adapt, think outside the box and innovate.. come back harder&gt;&gt; nah meaan!
Race because you love to race, win or lose. </TD></TR></TABLE>

man I wish some people in P4 would think like you guys
you guys should have a talk with some of the guys in this thread

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1442229

and remind them what DRAG Racing is all about