I have a 1993 Suzuki GSX-R600W that is completely and totally stock, has never had any sort of engine work except to change the oil every 2,000 miles and the spark plugs where changed a couple of months ago. The bike just turned over to 32,000 miles today and I was wondering if there would be any advantage to changing over to Synthetic oil instead of the regular oil I am using now.

The bike is very important to me as it is my sole transportation and I have no other means of getting around so it is very important to me.

I did a search for Synthetic and oil and but not much came back even for the achieved content.

 

it deff. wont hurt synthetics have been proven to cause less friction and hold up better under high rpm and we all know motorcycles rev high so i say go for it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HT Chaplin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it deff. wont hurt synthetics have been proven to cause less friction and hold up better under high rpm and we all know motorcycles rev high so i say go for it</TD></TR></TABLE>

Would I have any problems going from regular motor oil to synthetic and is there anything else I should do if I do go synthetic?

 

no just make sure you use a motorcycle oil because they have additives that help lubricate your transmission. Regular synthetic motor oil are designed just for engines. Motorcycles dont have seperate oil for transmissions so the oil has to have special additives

 

Thanks Mr. Chaplin, I'll probably change it over this weekend.

Any recommendations for oil? Would the oil they sell at Honda Motorcycles be good or do they sell a good synthetic oil at autoparts stores?

 

If you change your oil properly there is no reaaon to have synthetics and even less reasons to have them in a motorcycle. Numerous cases have come up where the clutch starts to slip because synthetic oil is too slippery. Then you need a new clutch as well.

I do not recommend synthetic oil in ANYTHING so long as you take care of our vehicle. Regular oils and synthetics, unless you buy $20 a quart race oils are no different until the additiev package runs out. That is where synthetic oil posseses an advantage. It lasts longer. Speaking of coure about your average synthetic oils.

Seriously if synthetic oils were really better dont you think that all car companies woudl be pushing synthetics for their cars if they made that big of a difference?

The simple fact is that if you take care of your machines, synthetic will offer you no more performance nor will it offer any more protection. Its a bogus claim to sell oil.

They all make the oil because stupid people will buy it and they can make more money, but I have yet to see a reason to run a synthetic oil. Unless you plan on running a race bike in a 24 hour race? Or the Iron Butt across the states race.

Unless you are subjecting your engine to serious heat cycles and serious abuse synthetic is useless.

And think about it from a $$$ POV. You change your oil every 1500 or 3000 miles. When you change synthetic you just flush $$$ down the toilet. Regular oil is formulated for 10K+ miles and synthetics for 70-100K. So what purposes does changing synthetics every 1500 miles serve?

 

I totally disagree if you read your manual it states your oil must be SF or SG approved for the reasons i stated above NO conventional car oil has that classification. Only motorcycle oils (snytheic and non synthetic). Its been like that with all my sport bikes I owned 929 and gsxr 750. Plus all the high performance cars now days come from factory with mobil1 Dyno #'s also prove a hp increase when synthetic is used therefore indicating it causes less friction.

 

i have read everyones posts and i agree with them for the most part but i have heard that if you use conventional oil that you should stick with conventional. that running conventional for a while and then switching to a full synthetic is not good for the wear parts in the motor. i dont have any hard evidence to back this up but i do know that running synthetic from day one does cause less friction = more power and longer motor life.

although the way many of us care for our toys we never push them hard enough or long enough in extreme conditions to break the oil down(conventional or synthetic).

 

Quote:
"Any recommendations for oil? Would the oil they sell at Honda Motorcycles be good or do they sell a good synthetic oil at autoparts stores? "

You can use the Mobil Extended Performance 15w-50 from Walmarts . In the 5 quart jugs it comes out to about 4.50 a quart and has plenty of anti-wear additives for your engine .

The first change should be a shorter interval due to the cleaning ability of the AN fluid that Exxon/Mobil is using . Somewhere around 3k miles and 5k thereafter .

One problem with bikes is they fuel up the oil a bit . It's difficult to run extreme extended intervals because of it and the particulates from the clutch that are not caught by the filter .

Another low cost synthetic is their 5w-40 and it works well to 3k miles or so before shearing of the small amount of polymers and fuel thinning sets in .

I use Synergyn 15w-50 FWIW .It is 6.00 a quart and can be ordered direct . Come is cases of 6 - 4 quart jugs .

Last , at those miles just continuing 2500 mile drains with an oil like Delvac 1300S 15w-40 or Phillips Synthetic Blend 15w-40 should help you run that engine on out of it's usefull life w/o any oil related problems for less money with a small sacrifice in HP .

 

Age old question starts a fight everytime ! this link is about as much good info as you can find read and make your own decsion personally shell rotella diesel oil is as good as any wont cause clutch slippage avoid anything with friction modifiers check it out http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html make your own decision .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HT Chaplin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I totally disagree if you read your manual it states your oil must be SF or SG approved for the reasons i stated above NO conventional car oil has that classification. Only motorcycle oils (snytheic and non synthetic). Its been like that with all my sport bikes I owned 929 and gsxr 750. Plus all the high performance cars now days come from factory with mobil1 Dyno #'s also prove a hp increase when synthetic is used therefore indicating it causes less friction.</TD></TR></TABLE>

By conventional oil I meant specified for your vehicle. IE Bike oil in a bike and car oil in a car.

If you want to play HP numbers, I dont think that the amount of HP gained from oil is significant in anyway shape or form. You are gaining such a little increase that it really is not worth it unless you need every bit of HP out of your engine. Like I said, unless you are running a competative bike or competing in an endurance event there is no need for a synthetic oil. Not a single person out there uses all the HP of a stock 600 these days on the street. No need to waste the money.

What cars come factory with Mobil 1? The Vette? Porsche? The Viper does not come stock with Mobil 1. The NSX doesnt come with Mobil 1, Ferrari and Lambos dont come with Mobil 1. Have you ever thought that its Mobil going to the manufacs and saying hey we will pay you this much if you use our product. You think they pick Mobil 1 over the better synths out there like Royal Purple? No, they put Mobil 1 in the car because it is a decent oil, people have fallen for this Mobil 1 crap over the past few years and people like to brag about their oil for some reason and because Mobil pays them to to put it in the car. Thats it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racer28 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have read everyones posts and i agree with them for the most part but i have heard that if you use conventional oil that you should stick with conventional. that running conventional for a while and then switching to a full synthetic is not good for the wear parts in the motor. i dont have any hard evidence to back this up but i do know that running synthetic from day one does cause less friction = more power and longer motor life.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can switch, you just need to run a cleaner through the motor first. Amsoil has one. How many miles do you really think that a motor can run before it breaks down because of conventional oils? 100K+? Ive used regular oil in my ITR and my bike since day 1. The car has about 85K on the clock and there have been no problems with any mechanical internals. In fact my last leakdown test show that I had rings from a 22K or there abouts motor. All with regular oil. And ask the people who have seen me drive. I drive it hard, I go to the track. Ask the RSpeed guys about Expo 03 where I was keeping up with an almost track prepped ITR that I think may now be in the ECHC. Its not like Ive babied the car. Yet people who have run synthetics have had tons of problems, sure there are those that havent, but the majority of major problems fall to the synthetic oil crowd. The bike is over 12K in 3 summers and has had no problems other than a clogged injector from some bad gas.

And assuming that you can get to the point where internals start breaking down wouldnt synthetics still have the same break down points? Sure it may be more slippery, but it wont change heat cycles of internal parts.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">although the way many of us care for our toys we never push them hard enough or long enough in extreme conditions to break the oil down(conventional or synthetic).</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is the perfect reason as to why dont need synthetics. No one here is allowing their toy to get to the past the breakdown point of regular oil.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BDiddy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is the perfect reason as to why dont need synthetics. No one here is allowing their toy to get to the past the breakdown point of regular oil.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats a pretty broad statement there . You don't know what oil temps my three bikes see do you ?

Also , please decribe in detail that breakdown point you speak about ... I need taught something today

After that we can discuss the pros of oils using copolymers of methacrylic or acrylic acid derivatives and or ethylene-propylene copolymers and the other polar groups not used in many available mineral oils of the correct viscosity for use in bike engines ..... if your feel like it

 

Well considering my fathers air/oil cooled HDs run at I think somewhere in the 225s to 245s... And the temp of my 600RR engine ranges from 175-185F depending on season in ride and upwards of 240F in traffic. Taking into account the difference in coolant and oil temp. Using the following study:

A study was undertaken to develop a heat flow and heat transfer model of an engine's lubrication system to predict primarily sump oil temperatures, and secondarily, coolant temperatures. The temperature relationships between the oil and coolant were found to be most interesting. This technical brief is a summary of the referenced paper.

A model was developed to account for numerous items in the engine /lubrication system:
1. Engine Speed and Load,
2. Head and Block Geometry
3. Bearing Clearances
4. Piston Design
5. Coolant and Ambient Temperatures
6. Material Properties.

(If the engine had an oil squirter system, this was included as well.)

Energy balance equations and heat input sources were incorporated into the model, with heat sources and heat sinks within the engine accounted for. In each test, a measured quantity of oil was used.

To verify the model, the model was plotted against full-up V8 engine data from a dynamometer. The model correlated quite well with the dynamometer data, with a slight under-estimation of oil sump temperature at high rpm.

It was found that the piston undercrown contributed about 70 to 80% of the heat into the oil with bearings contributing 10 to 20% of the heat energy to the oil.

Here is a breakdown of heat sources for engine oil 2,000 RPM:

Energy to Oil from Piston Undercrown - 76%
Main and Big End Bearings - 13%
Camshaft Bearings - 1%
Energy to oil from Cylinder Wall - 0%
Oil Deck in Head - 2%
Oil Pump Energy - 8%

At 4,000 RPM, the only increase in heat energy came from the Main and Big End bearings at 19%, a 6% increase from 2,000 RPM. The Piston Undercrown's energy contribution to oil temp was 4% less at 72% for the 4,000 RPM case.

The predicted sump (bulk) oil temperature versus the coolant temperature was shown to be about 18 to 20 degrees C higher for the oil than for the coolant at 2,000 RPM. At 4,000 RPM WOT, the oil sump temperature was about 50 degrees C higher than the coolant temperature. The slope for both RPM ranges was about 0.7 C/C, which means that on the average, the Oil Sump temperature is always 1.2 to 1.43 times higher than the coolant temp. Engine oil temperatures varied with engine output and coolant temperatures varied with engine output, airflow and radiator capacity.

An interesting side-bars of the study was that the bulk oil temperature increased "only" 0.3 C for every 1.0 C increase in ambient (outside) temperatures.

While this is from a V8, it gives and idea as to the basics of the coolant/oil relationship.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also , please decribe in detail that breakdown point you speak about ... I need taught something today </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think you need an English lesson more than a lesson on the flashpoints of oil. Conventional tends to have a flashpoint at about 432F, and synthetics at about 482F. There are also what are called pour points which would be where oil bascially "freezes" for lack of a better word. -26F and -44F respectfully.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After that we can discuss the pros of oils using copolymers of methacrylic or acrylic acid derivatives and or ethylene-propylene copolymers and the other polar groups not used in many available mineral oils of the correct viscosity for use in bike engines ..... if your feel like it </TD></TR></TABLE>
No need to do that. Alot of people would get lost. I try to KISS it for the masses.

Look I dont hold a degree in lubrication engineering nor I dont work in lubrication. Im going by hard numbers including the $$$ numbers. I see places where synthetics excel over conventional oils. They are the dyno and the racetrack. And by racetrack I mean professional level racing. If the prices were the same I would pick synthetics, however I do not feel that the premium one pays for synthetic oil is worth it unless your name is Hayden, Rossi, Bostrom or Mladin. A friend of mine is an am racer. However he gets a deep discount on Motul oil. In his case I say go for the synthetic because the premium for the oil is less than if he was buying it retail. In fact his oil bill got cut in half when he got the hookup. The price alone for synthetic turns me off.

Im not going to say that synthetic oil isnt better than convential oil. Synthetic is a superior product. However I do not feel that synthetic oil is a better buy because of the price increase and the minimal gains seen in a street vehicle. When I can get a quart of GN4 for $2.95 vs $12.95+ for a synthetic motorcycle oil I do not see how the synthetic oil better. While being chemically better, I dont believe that any person on the street is able to take advantage of the benifits of the synthetic oil. And the cost outweighs any benifits that may be gained. Consider that people change their oil every 1500 miles on a bike... Sure it does more work, but the motorcycle oils are formulated for that. The only thing offered is possibly more protection, but if you change your oil as outlined in the manual there wont be any problems. Old school CB125s and other classic bikes I have seen run on nothing but regular oil have more miles than any modern sportbike will ever see before it gets sold to some new rider and totaled. They run like champs. And if anyone remembers, the old CBs were some serious motors in their time. Hell the 67 CB125 I had reved to 9K. And that bike is almost 40 years old.