I Have a set of 15in. 99-00 Si rims and in need of new tires. I have a 96' civic hatch and im looking for dry handling tires for daily driving. i have a jdm itr swap so i need great grip in the tires. So iam wondering which is the best street tire and size for me. Im debating over 195's Vs. 205's and which size is best for a 15in. rim. If you have tested ANY of these tires (rubbers listed below) please let me your thoughts on them and ANY others you personally think are top self street tires. So please help me out and i'd apreciate ALL advice.

Here are the rubbers i had in mind:

Yokohama ES100 205/50/15
Falken Azenis RT 205/5015
Falken Ziex 205/50/15
BFG g-Force Sport 205/50/15
Hankook Ventus R-S2 205/50/15
________________

Falken Ziex 195/50/15
Hankook Ventus R-S2 195/50/15
BFG g-Force Sport 195/50/15




Modified by Fresh[EK9] at 6:49 PM 11/25/2005

 

Bump for more info, I just got the azenis in the size you have listed and waiting to put on the stock wheels when I get back to the states.

 

What kind of car do you have? (Model, version, year) The best tire size depends on the car, not just on the rims.

And what are you looking for in a tire? Dry performance? Wet performance? Low price? Are you willing to trade off some performance for a lower price and/or longer treadlife?

That's quite a variety of tires you've listed - everything from top-performing tires to budget performance tires to all-season tires (are you planning to use them in snow?). I'm sure that some tires listed are MUCH better for your needs than others, depending on what you're looking for...



Modified by nsxtasy at 10:50 AM 11/25/2005

 

I've tested both the Yokohama ES100 and the BFGoodrich GForce Sport. Between the two I would use the Yokohama. It will provide better wet traction and handling capability.

 

I have a 96' civic hatch and im looking for dry handling tires for daily driving. i have a jdm itr swap so i need great grip in the tires. im looking to spend money on sum really good tires like azenis but need info and reviews and hopefully shed light on other tires that might be better around the price range of azenis or less.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fresh[EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">]I have a 96' civic hatch and im looking for dry handling tires for daily driving. i have a jdm itr swap so i need great grip in the tires. im looking to spend money on sum really good tires like azenis but need info and reviews and hopefully shed light on other tires that might be better around the price range of azenis or less.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks.

In case you don't want to read this entire post, I recommend that you get the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 in 195/50-15. It will give you the great grip you're looking for, at a bargain price of $85/tire, which is less than the Falken Azenis cost.

Now, for the full analysis...

You have two different questions: (a) what size, and (b) which tire.

(a) Your car came from the factory with 175/70-13 tires. Ideally, you want to keep the outer diameter the same as stock; that will keep your odometer and speedometer accurate, as well as minimizing your chances of rubbing. That means using 195/50-15 tires (0.1 percent larger than stock) rather than 205/50-15 tires (1.9 percent larger than stock).

(b) I like to think of tires as falling across a spectrum from the stickiest, fastest-wearing tires to the less sticky, longer-lasting tires, and you come out with a list that looks like this, starting with the stickiest and working down from there:

1. Drag Radials: BFGoodrich g-Force T/A Drag Radial (won't last very long)

2. Other R Compound Tires: Hoosier R3S04 and A3S05, Toyo RA-1, etc (typical treadlife 2-4K miles)

3. Specialty Super-Sticky Street Tires: Falken Azenis RT-615 (typical treadlife 10K miles)

4. Best Top-of-the-Line Street Tires: Goodyear F1 GS-D3, Bridgestone S-03, Dunlop SP Sport Maxx, etc (typical treadlife 15-25K miles)

5. "Value" Top-of-the-Line Street Tires: Toyo T-1R, Kumho Ecsta MX (typical treadlife 15-25K miles)

6. Budget Performance, "Bang for the Buck" Tires: Yokohama AVS ES100, Kumho Ecsta SPT, Dunlop Direzza DZ101, etc (typical treadlife 25-40K miles)

7. All-season tires: Kumho Ecsta ASX, Pirelli PZero Nero M+S, etc (typical treadlife 25-50K miles)

Because you're looking for the maximum dry grip for street use, I would suggest category 3 or 4. Category 3 consists of the Falken Azenis RT-615, but unfortunately, the 195/50-15 size won't be available until the end of next year. The very best tire in category 4 is the Goodyear F1 GS-D3, which is a great performing tire. It will easily outperform any tire you have listed, other than the Falken Azenis, by far, on dry pavement as well as wet pavement. This is the tire that won the comparison test of 11 top-of-the-line tires in the current (December) issue of Car and Driver, and it also has the highest user survey ratings of all 24 tires in the Tire Rack's top performance category. It's available in 195/50-15 for $85/tire at the Tire Rack. That would be the ideal choice for your intended use.

 

Thanks alot for ur help!!!!! Ima check out those good years.

 

If you don't want to spend as much and don't mind a tire that's inbetween the Yokohama ES100's performance and the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 then I personally recommend the Toyo Proxes T1-R in 195/50/R15 which are amazingly still on sale at http://www.onlinetires.com for $60 a tire in that size. Yes they score at the bottom of that Car and Driver test, but those guys are pushing the limits on the tires and we're talking about daily driving here and at least they even made that tire comparison . I've had these on for about 5k miles daily driven and they suit my needs very well in Seattle's weather conditions. The tread looks just as deep as when I bought them.

 

He's looking for "dry handling" and "great grip" (his words), and the Toyo won't give him anywhere near as much grip as the Goodyear F1 GS-D3. Remember, different people have different needs. You may care more about saving $25 per tire than about getting the maximum grip from your tires, but he said that he doesn't. He is looking for handling and grip, not price. So you should really stop trying to push the Toyo on individuals for whom it's not an appropriate purchase. (Maybe you have stock in Toyo or something? )

Remember, the T1R was absolutely awful in the tire test in Car and Driver (the test in which the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 won). Here's what they said about the T1R:

"In fact the Proxes never placed higher than eighth in any test, and in two dry tests, the autocross and the skidpad, the Toyo finished last, trailing the top finishers by significant margins. In some tests it felt better than it actually was performing, but overall, Geswein noted it was 'soft and imprecise' and didn't 'feel like a sport tire'. In the end, the Toyo has its high wear grade (280) and attractive price ($135) to thank for its eighth-place finish. In performance terms, there are lots of tires that do better."

I'll continue to recommend it as one of my two "category 5" picks for people who want a combination of performance and value, but there's a reason it's in a lower performance category than the best street tires around (category 4). It's just not a good choice for those who care primarily about dry handling and great grip.



Modified by nsxtasy at 2:05 PM 11/26/2005

 

He's only looking for daily driving tires so that's why I recommended them. Those tests on Car and Driver were pushing the limits on a track and I highly doubt anyone would get close to those limits on the streets unless they were asking for suicide. I mean if he stated that we was going to use it on the track whether it be autox, road race, drag, then maybe I wouldn't have commented, but all he states was for daily driving. Just because the Goodyear is the best tire up there doesn't mean others below it won't suit his needs just as well for a lower price.

 

Wrong! Obviously, you didn't bother reading what he said. I asked him what his priorities were among performance, price, etc. He said performance - PERIOD. Not price. He's looking for something really sticky for street use, and he's willing to pay a little more for better performance. Even though you aren't. Your needs are different from his.

Wrong again! The tests in Car and Driver were conducted on the test track at the Tire Rack facility in Indiana. It's a small autocross course. It's also the same test track that the Tire Rack uses for testing ALL of their tires, everything from track tires to street tires to all-season tires to SUV tires. I wouldn't call it a track; it's just a small course laid out on flat asphalt. It's rather fun, actually, although it doesn't offer the drama or elevation or camber that a real racetrack offers. Oh, and the only kind of tire they don't test there is winter tires, which they test on an ice rink.

Wrong again! You don't even understand the difference between top-of-the-line street tires and track tires! You obviously don't know much about tires. And you shouldn't post advice when you don't understand what you're talking about.

The tests in Car and Driver were of top-of-the-line street tires, not track tires. Many people want the highest performance street tires they can find, because they want the extra traction and superior handling that top-of-the-line street tires can give - even if they NEVER take them to the track - and they don't mind paying for the higher level of performance. That's why I asked him his priorities, and whether he's willing to pay more for better performance - and he is. He didn't mention price; he doesn't want to save money by getting a Toyo tire that is okay but nothing great, and is crap when compared with the Goodyear F1 GS-D3. Lots of people feel the same way. Other people want to save money and are willing to sacrifice some performance in doing so. Still others need to use their tires on snow as well as in warm weather, so that all-season tires are what they need. Different people have different needs. That's why they say, "Different strokes for different folks." It applies to tires, just like it does to cars, and houses, and everything else.

Here's what the Tire Rack says about their top performance category for street tires (the one that includes the Goodyear F1 GS-D3):

You want maximum street performance and only the best will do.

• Z, W, or Y-speed rated
• 50 series and lower

Technologically advanced tires that combine highly developed materials with precision lightweight manufacturing techniques to provide superior dry and wet traction, handling and high speed capabilities."

These are street tires, for street performance. NOT TRACK TIRES.

There is a separate category for track tires, like the Hoosiers, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, Toyo RA-1, and others. Those are the tires that are designed specifically for the racetrack and for autocross. The Tire Rack sells those tires in the separate category they call "Competition". THAT'S NOT WHAT THE ARTICLE IN CAR AND DRIVER IS ABOUT. The article in Car and Driver is about street tires, not track tires. Fresh[EK9] is looking for a street tire with the best dry handling and great grip. That means the Goodyear F1 GS-D3, not the cheaper Toyo T1-R, whose performance is mediocre by comparison. Which is why Car and Driver said about the Toyo, "In performance terms, there are lots of tires that do better."

Wrong again! Please stop posting things that just don't answer what other people are asking for. The Toyo is a cheap tire that's decent for the price, but is not a top performer. It doesn't offer the best dry handling and great grip that Fresh[EK9] is looking for. The Toyo isn't what he's looking for, period. Compared with the Goodyear, it's crap, just like the folks in Car and Driver described.

Recommending a single tire for everyone, while ignoring their specific, expressed needs, shows a total lack of understanding of what people are looking for. No single tire is going to be the best for every person. Different people have different cars, and use them differently, and have different needs and priorities. No one single tire is going to be the best tire for everyone. When you recommend a tire just because you're using it, it shows that you don't realize how important it is to take people's needs into account - and you are doing a disservice to the people on this forum by posting bad advice. Different people have different needs. The tiremakers make different tires to meet those needs. And different tiremakers are better in some categories than in others. That's why I recommend different tires to different people, depending on their needs and priorities and sizes - Toyos (RA-1) and Hoosiers and Michelins (Pilot Sport Cup) for the track, Falkens (RT-615) and Goodyears (F1 GS-D3) for top street tires, Kumhos (MX and SPT) and (yes) Toyos (T1-R) and Yokohamas (ES100) for okay performance at a good price, Kumhos (ASX) and Pirellis (PZero Nero M+S) for all-season tires, etc. No matter what people are looking for, there is a very good tire out there to meet their needs. But it won't necessarily be the same tire that you're using, or I'm using, or anyone else is using. Because different people need different tires for different reasons.

Disclaimer: I have no association or financial interest in any tire manufacturer or retailer, and I will continue to recommend specific tires that will best meet the particular, stated needs and priorities of people who are looking for advice.



Modified by nsxtasy at 7:53 PM 11/26/2005

 

would the 205/50/15's rub if they do happen to make that size for the good year f1's?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fresh[EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">]would the 205/50/15's rub if they do happen to make that size for the good year f1's?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Goodyear F1 GS-D3 doesn't come in 205/50-15, so there's no need to answer the question. Besides, that shouldn't matter to you, since 195/50-15 is the right size for your car, not 205/50-15. If that's the tire you're interested in, you're lucky because the right size for your car (195/50-15) happens to be the only 15" size they make.

 

 

also 205's will flex on 15x6" rim (i believe thats what the SIR is). I'm running 205 on 5.5" wide steelies and let me tell you, they flex alot as 5.5 is the min width they will fit.

My point, go 195/50/15 for 15x6", but yes 205 will also work if your dead set on it.

I'm going with 15x7" for my 205/50/15 tires in April to cure the problem as I want the width + sticky tires (Hankook Z212) for auto-x as well as daily driver and treadlife dosen't matter to me.

195 and 205 are not a huge difference (meaning width only, not overall diameter) so either one provided a great tire is used, will provide the outcome your looking for.

I do differ from NSxatcy (although I respect his advice, he knows his ****) and I recommend 205/50/15 whenever possible and RT-615's as a max dry grip tire.

The C&D link provides test, but I still favor the RT-615...its got the racing feedback those particular goodyears don't have (but goodyear has in general from racing)

like I said, either or 205/50/15 RT-615 or 195/50/15 Goodyear, either will work great, but I favor the Rt-615.

If your looking for 195/50/15 RT-615 dosen't make that yet (late 2006) so Hankook Z212 would be the only real competition to Goodyear in that size

cheers

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alwaysoverkill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your looking for 195/50/15 RT-615 dosen't make that yet (late 2006) so Hankook Z212 would be the only real competition to Goodyear in that size</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Goodyear F1 GS-D3 killed the Z212 in that Car and Driver test. It scored higher in overall dry performance and in overall wet performance. Hence my recommendation of the Goodyear rather than the Hankook.

The RT-615 wasn't included in the C&D test, but I would recommend it if you're buying towards the end of this year, when the 195/50-15 size becomes available.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alwaysoverkill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm going with 15x7" for my 205/50/15 tires in April to cure the problem as I want the width + sticky tires (Hankook Z212) for auto-x as well as daily driver and treadlife dosen't matter to me.
.
.
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I do differ from NSxatcy (although I respect his advice, he knows his ****) and I recommend 205/50/15 whenever possible and RT-615's as a max dry grip tire.

The C&D link provides test, but I still favor the RT-615...its got the racing feedback those particular goodyears don't have (but goodyear has in general from racing)</TD></TR></TABLE>

For his use, I recommend the Goodyear in 195/50. But may I ask why you are planning to get the Hankook Z212 for your use, instead of the Falken RT-615? You're going to put them on the wide 15x7 wheels, and you're going to be using them for autocross, so I understand why you would want 205/50. But why the Hankook rather than the Falken? The Falken (which you praise several times) did much better than the Hankook in the autocross test run by Grassroots Motorsport last August. And since Falken lowered their prices a few weeks ago, the RT-615 is now less expensive than the Z212. (Vulcan sells the 205/50-15 RT-615 for $78/tire.) So for your situation, why wouldn't you get the RT-615? Just curious...

 

I already have the Hankook Z212 already and have driven about 4000km on them, so its like 90% remianing. I'm expecting between 18-20,000km, but with auto-x, i'm thinking about 12,000km max figuring auto-x about once or twice a month all summer.

When the Z212 wears, i'll be going 205/50/15 RT-615's

 

Thanks.

 

I am in a similar situation and this thread has some good info, but looks like the tire selection is a bit out dated. When I search Tirerack the #4 choices don’t show up for the 195/50/R15 size tires. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Luke

 

You're correct; the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 is no longer available in 195/50-15, and there aren't any other good "maximum performance summer tires" available in 195/50-15. Basically, you have a choice. Since there aren't any choices in "category 4" (Best Top-of-the-Line Street Tires) in 195/50-15, you can get stickier tires from category 3 (Specialty Super-Sticky Street Tires):

Bridgestone Potenza RE01R
Toyo R1R

...or, you can get slightly less sticky tires from category 5 ("Value" Top-of-the-Line Street Tires)

Hankook Ventus R-S2 Z212
Toyo T1R

...or, you can get somewhat less sticky tires from category 6 (Budget Performance, "Bang for the Buck" Tires):

Yokohama S.drive
Fuzion ZRi

These categories refer back to the post above, where it says:

 

Thanks nsxtacy.

 

Wow nsxtasy I really appreciate all the info you posted. I am definetely category 6 "bang for the buck" kind of guy! I didn't even have to make a new thread! This one had all the info I need!

Thanks!

As a matter of fact, you should re-do that post you made with all the categories and look into getting it stickied! some really good info there!

 

All the same information is in the FAQ topic which is already stickied. The "seven categories" are there, but broken down differently - first into summer tires vs all-seasons vs winter tires vs competition tires, then the summer tires are broken down into supersticky tires vs top of the line tires vs budget performance tires. But it's really the same thing.