the end of the world as we know it
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the end of the world as we know it
http://www.superbikeplanet.com...d.htm
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superbikeplanetdotcizzom »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's The End Of The World As We Know It?
face it: we are fans of a socially useless activity
by dean adams
Friday, November 18, 2005
Clearly the 2005 off-season has been a criminally ironic period in racing, with most of the incidents not even needing comment or reporting for enthusiasts to recognize them. To wit:
A local judge has banned motorsports activities at Monza "unless the vehicles involved are fitted with a silencing system to reduce noise levels".
Kenny Roberts' GP team signs deal with Honda. For thirty years, Kenny Roberts has been a the anti-Honda, as a rider and a GP team owner. He alone battled Spencer and HRC for the title in '83, he and Rainey beat Honda and Doohan for the world championships in the early 1990s, his independent GP team was designed to break the back of GP teams like HRC by building smaller/lighter/faster GP bikes for less money than a one-season HRC lease deal.
Assuredly a two-year contract with HRC isn't a lifetime agreement—and does keep the dream alive— but it is going to be difficult for some fans to see a Roberts bike with a Honda engine in it.
Ducati—tired of American riders and their day-to-day, ah, "fluctuating" riding performance— swore off American riders for their '06 US team. Then they hired perhaps the most American rider currently racing—Ben Bostrom.
Yamaha tantalizes us all by building a beautiful R1LE motorcycle with all the bits to make it uber-competitve in Superbike but then decides to race it—only—in Superstock in '06.
And possibly the most cruel twist of the off-season? The Italian circuit Monza—one of the greatest race tracks the world will ever know—is now under threat from local townspeople because the racing is deemed too loud. Racing too loud for Italians; welcome to hell everybody.
While these noise complaints currently center on the F1 event at Monza, assuredly it won't be long before the World Superbike machines are petitioned against.
According to a news report, the well-accepted adage that every Italian is a motorsports fan is dead. The Italian judge in charge of this case termed racing a "superfluous, dangerous and socially useless activity that (has) a major impact on the environment".
Monza, (or Parco de Monza as the sign outside the facility reads) is a race track inside the Italian city of Monza.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superbikeplanetdotcizzom »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's The End Of The World As We Know It?
face it: we are fans of a socially useless activity
by dean adams
Friday, November 18, 2005
Clearly the 2005 off-season has been a criminally ironic period in racing, with most of the incidents not even needing comment or reporting for enthusiasts to recognize them. To wit:
A local judge has banned motorsports activities at Monza "unless the vehicles involved are fitted with a silencing system to reduce noise levels".
Kenny Roberts' GP team signs deal with Honda. For thirty years, Kenny Roberts has been a the anti-Honda, as a rider and a GP team owner. He alone battled Spencer and HRC for the title in '83, he and Rainey beat Honda and Doohan for the world championships in the early 1990s, his independent GP team was designed to break the back of GP teams like HRC by building smaller/lighter/faster GP bikes for less money than a one-season HRC lease deal.
Assuredly a two-year contract with HRC isn't a lifetime agreement—and does keep the dream alive— but it is going to be difficult for some fans to see a Roberts bike with a Honda engine in it.
Ducati—tired of American riders and their day-to-day, ah, "fluctuating" riding performance— swore off American riders for their '06 US team. Then they hired perhaps the most American rider currently racing—Ben Bostrom.
Yamaha tantalizes us all by building a beautiful R1LE motorcycle with all the bits to make it uber-competitve in Superbike but then decides to race it—only—in Superstock in '06.
And possibly the most cruel twist of the off-season? The Italian circuit Monza—one of the greatest race tracks the world will ever know—is now under threat from local townspeople because the racing is deemed too loud. Racing too loud for Italians; welcome to hell everybody.
While these noise complaints currently center on the F1 event at Monza, assuredly it won't be long before the World Superbike machines are petitioned against.
According to a news report, the well-accepted adage that every Italian is a motorsports fan is dead. The Italian judge in charge of this case termed racing a "superfluous, dangerous and socially useless activity that (has) a major impact on the environment".
Monza, (or Parco de Monza as the sign outside the facility reads) is a race track inside the Italian city of Monza.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: The same place Max slept in The Road Warrior
Re: the end of the world as we know it (slvrblckf4i)
it is sad but true. almost every year there is some type of new restrictions on the race bikes and cars. hence the reason we no longer have 2 strokes in motogp and all the motocrossers are going to 4 strokes. and all the oulying cities around every major racetrack bitches everytime there is an event because it is too noisey.
the city i used to live in had the original bid to get the route 66 raceway that is now in joliet, IL. the people of the city voted it down because they thought it would be too loud. and it was gonna be at the airport. i mean dont think that it will be used less that 20 days a year and it will bring hundreds of millions of dollars to the economy every year. but i guess thats not important.
the city i used to live in had the original bid to get the route 66 raceway that is now in joliet, IL. the people of the city voted it down because they thought it would be too loud. and it was gonna be at the airport. i mean dont think that it will be used less that 20 days a year and it will bring hundreds of millions of dollars to the economy every year. but i guess thats not important.
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Santa Ana, California 92704
Re: the end of the world as we know it (Racer28)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racer28 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> all the motocrossers are going to 4 strokes. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Most have moved on to 4 strokes due the fact that they are faster and offer more torque than traditional 2 strokes. Noise and pollution restrictions are not the main factor. People have been talking about the demise of 2 strokes since the early 90's due to noise and pollution restrictions yet they are still going strong when it comes to bike sales.
Most have moved on to 4 strokes due the fact that they are faster and offer more torque than traditional 2 strokes. Noise and pollution restrictions are not the main factor. People have been talking about the demise of 2 strokes since the early 90's due to noise and pollution restrictions yet they are still going strong when it comes to bike sales.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Seattle, WA, USA
That's a bunch of ****. You don't buy a house by a racetrack and complain its too loud. It's like asking the airport to put quieter engines on their planes cuz it keeps their baby up at night. expletive off. God, people never cease to amaze me.
Grumpy Old Man
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From: Westchester
Re: the end of the world as we know it (mbpwrx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mbpwrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Most have moved on to 4 strokes due the fact that they are faster and offer more torque than traditional 2 strokes. Noise and pollution restrictions are not the main factor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Same with motogp, 2 strokes were still allowed but weren't competitive with the 4's.
Most have moved on to 4 strokes due the fact that they are faster and offer more torque than traditional 2 strokes. Noise and pollution restrictions are not the main factor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Same with motogp, 2 strokes were still allowed but weren't competitive with the 4's.
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From: The same place Max slept in The Road Warrior
Re: the end of the world as we know it (RebornGSR)
the reason that the 4 stroke has caught up with the 2 stroke is because of the future emissions. they stopped focusing on the 2 stroke and focused all their efforts on the 4 stroke. by the time 07 rolls around none of the big 4 japanese manufacturers will have a 2 stroke motocrosser. if i am correct kawasaki no longer has a 125.
and the reason that 2 stroke sales are still big is because the bikes are cheaper. i dont have the numbers in front of me but i believe that most of the four strokes are around 1k more than their 2 stroke counterparts.
if it wasnt for the top manufacturers paying their riders to ride the 4 stroke in supercross because of marketing purposes most of the top riders would still ride the 2 stroke in the supercross series.
and the reason that 2 stroke sales are still big is because the bikes are cheaper. i dont have the numbers in front of me but i believe that most of the four strokes are around 1k more than their 2 stroke counterparts.
if it wasnt for the top manufacturers paying their riders to ride the 4 stroke in supercross because of marketing purposes most of the top riders would still ride the 2 stroke in the supercross series.
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From: Santa Ana, California 92704
Re: the end of the world as we know it (Racer28)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racer28 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the reason that the 4 stroke has caught up with the 2 stroke is because of the future emissions. they stopped focusing on the 2 stroke and focused all their efforts on the 4 stroke. by the time 07 rolls around none of the big 4 japanese manufacturers will have a 2 stroke motocrosser.</TD></TR></TABLE>
People have been talking about the death of 2 strokes since 94-95. Every speculation includes a 1-3 year window of when the "big 4" will stop producing a 2 stroke bike (example: "By the time 07...").
IMO, 2 strokes may go by the wayside due to emissions restrictions over the next few years but that does not mean they are becoming obsolete in motocross/supercross for that same reason.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer28 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if it wasnt for the top manufacturers paying their riders to ride the 4 stroke in supercross because of marketing purposes most of the top riders would still ride the 2 stroke in the supercross series.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No they wouldn't. When 4 strokes were introduced into the 250cc class in the Supercross series people were shying away from them. It wasn't until they realized they with the extra torque that a 4 stroke produces they were faster out of the corners and putting down quicker lap times overall. In the first years the 4 strokes were just too damn heavy to totally dominate. Once they put those pigs on a diet they became much more dominant.
When it comes down to it...4 strokes are just plain faster.
Modified by mbpwrx at 4:51 AM 11/21/2005
People have been talking about the death of 2 strokes since 94-95. Every speculation includes a 1-3 year window of when the "big 4" will stop producing a 2 stroke bike (example: "By the time 07...").
IMO, 2 strokes may go by the wayside due to emissions restrictions over the next few years but that does not mean they are becoming obsolete in motocross/supercross for that same reason.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racer28 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if it wasnt for the top manufacturers paying their riders to ride the 4 stroke in supercross because of marketing purposes most of the top riders would still ride the 2 stroke in the supercross series.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No they wouldn't. When 4 strokes were introduced into the 250cc class in the Supercross series people were shying away from them. It wasn't until they realized they with the extra torque that a 4 stroke produces they were faster out of the corners and putting down quicker lap times overall. In the first years the 4 strokes were just too damn heavy to totally dominate. Once they put those pigs on a diet they became much more dominant.
When it comes down to it...4 strokes are just plain faster.
Modified by mbpwrx at 4:51 AM 11/21/2005
What is this crap?
Joined: May 2001
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Re: the end of the world as we know it (mbpwrx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mbpwrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
When it comes down to it...4 strokes are just plain faster. </TD></TR></TABLE>
...because the big manufacturers finally invested in them to make them lighter / competitive.
When it comes down to it...4 strokes are just plain faster. </TD></TR></TABLE>
...because the big manufacturers finally invested in them to make them lighter / competitive.
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From: Santa Ana, California 92704
Re: the end of the world as we know it (falcongsr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falcongsr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...because the big manufacturers finally invested in them to make them lighter / competitive.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There is no replacement for displacement. 4 strokes create more torque and have a more linear powerband than their 2 stroke counterparts.
Think of V8 vs. I4 when it comes to cars.
There is no replacement for displacement. 4 strokes create more torque and have a more linear powerband than their 2 stroke counterparts.
Think of V8 vs. I4 when it comes to cars.
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From: The same place Max slept in The Road Warrior
Re: the end of the world as we know it (mbpwrx)
ok well tell that to Ricky Carmichael the greatest motocrosser ever to live. he has stated that he would be riding the RM250 in the supercross series if it wasnt for Suzuki telling him that they wanted him to ride the RM450 and there is a bonus in it if he does and wins.
What is this crap?
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Re: the end of the world as we know it (mbpwrx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mbpwrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is no replacement for displacement. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh I didnt realize the 4 strokes were that much bigger engines. OK it makes more sense now. Have 250cc 2-strokes been replaced with something like 450cc 4-strokes for top-level dirtbike racing?
Oh I didnt realize the 4 strokes were that much bigger engines. OK it makes more sense now. Have 250cc 2-strokes been replaced with something like 450cc 4-strokes for top-level dirtbike racing?
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From: The same place Max slept in The Road Warrior
Re: the end of the world as we know it (falcongsr)
yes they run 125cc 2 strokes and 250cc 4 strokes together and they run 250cc 2 strokes with 450cc 4 strokes.
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From: The same place Max slept in The Road Warrior
Re: the end of the world as we know it (falcongsr)
yea until the 04-05 season the fastest guys were still riding the 2 strokes because the 4s werent full developed yet. because of the fact that they were heavy and most of the riders grew up riding 2 strokes so the powerband and they way they flew and everything was familiar. in the last 2-3 years the big 4 havent developed anything new for the 2 strokes and have focused very heavily on the 4 stroke. the fact is that if the 4 stroke design was truly "faster" then it would be the same displacement as the 2 stroke. the reason that the manufacturers were giving the leway in the rules was because the AMA gets heat about the emissions of the 2 stroke bikes. it had nothing to do with noise. but now that the AMA sees that all the companies are now focused on the more environmentally friendly 4 stroke they are just now getting into the noise restrictions and many of the companies are developing twin exhaust motocrossers. honda and suzuki already have one on the track under the rules that the AMA has giving each team one year to run a non homologated bike for development of future projects.
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From: Santa Ana, California 92704
Re: the end of the world as we know it (Racer28)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racer28 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the fact is that if the 4 stroke design was truly "faster" then it would be the same displacement as the 2 stroke.</TD></TR></TABLE>
In theory a 2 stroke engine could produce twice the power at the same RPM as a 4 stroke. If the displacement was the same the 2 strokes would **** all over the 4 strokes but it's not the case when you're talking about 250cc vs. 450cc in a close tight supercross track..hell even a wide open motocross track. The 4 strokes are faster because of how quickly they can get the torque to the rear wheel.
I raced motocrosss and participated in freestyle motocross from 95-02 and the way even the first 4 strokes ripped up the corners was pretty impressive. Trust me, I'm a die hard 2 stroke fan but I still can admit to the fact that the 4 strokes are just plain faster when it comes to moto/supercross.
Factory teams who use the 4 stroke pattern are in a win-win situation. 4 strokes are proving themselves to be very effective in the two race series so the sales are starting to look up. The "big 4" are being pressured due to emissions (if that's the case) so they start investing more into their 4 strokes and they become more effective. Sales are up, wins are up, sales are up, wins are up, etc...
In theory a 2 stroke engine could produce twice the power at the same RPM as a 4 stroke. If the displacement was the same the 2 strokes would **** all over the 4 strokes but it's not the case when you're talking about 250cc vs. 450cc in a close tight supercross track..hell even a wide open motocross track. The 4 strokes are faster because of how quickly they can get the torque to the rear wheel.
I raced motocrosss and participated in freestyle motocross from 95-02 and the way even the first 4 strokes ripped up the corners was pretty impressive. Trust me, I'm a die hard 2 stroke fan but I still can admit to the fact that the 4 strokes are just plain faster when it comes to moto/supercross.
Factory teams who use the 4 stroke pattern are in a win-win situation. 4 strokes are proving themselves to be very effective in the two race series so the sales are starting to look up. The "big 4" are being pressured due to emissions (if that's the case) so they start investing more into their 4 strokes and they become more effective. Sales are up, wins are up, sales are up, wins are up, etc...
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From: The same place Max slept in The Road Warrior
Re: the end of the world as we know it (mbpwrx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mbpwrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In theory a 2 stroke engine could produce twice the power at the same RPM as a 4 stroke. If the displacement was the same the 2 strokes would **** all over the 4 strokes but it's not the case when you're talking about 250cc vs. 450cc in a close tight supercross track..hell even a wide open motocross track. The 4 strokes are faster because of how quickly they can get the torque to the rear wheel.
I raced motocrosss and participated in freestyle motocross from 95-02 and the way even the first 4 strokes ripped up the corners was pretty impressive. Trust me, I'm a die hard 2 stroke fan but I still can admit to the fact that the 4 strokes are just plain faster when it comes to moto/supercross.
Factory teams who use the 4 stroke pattern are in a win-win situation. 4 strokes are proving themselves to be very effective in the two race series so the sales are starting to look up. The "big 4" are being pressured due to emissions (if that's the case) so they start investing more into their 4 strokes and they become more effective. Sales are up, wins are up, sales are up, wins are up, etc... </TD></TR></TABLE> you basically said the same thing that i did but just in a different way.
we are both some knowledgeable mother *******
In theory a 2 stroke engine could produce twice the power at the same RPM as a 4 stroke. If the displacement was the same the 2 strokes would **** all over the 4 strokes but it's not the case when you're talking about 250cc vs. 450cc in a close tight supercross track..hell even a wide open motocross track. The 4 strokes are faster because of how quickly they can get the torque to the rear wheel.
I raced motocrosss and participated in freestyle motocross from 95-02 and the way even the first 4 strokes ripped up the corners was pretty impressive. Trust me, I'm a die hard 2 stroke fan but I still can admit to the fact that the 4 strokes are just plain faster when it comes to moto/supercross.
Factory teams who use the 4 stroke pattern are in a win-win situation. 4 strokes are proving themselves to be very effective in the two race series so the sales are starting to look up. The "big 4" are being pressured due to emissions (if that's the case) so they start investing more into their 4 strokes and they become more effective. Sales are up, wins are up, sales are up, wins are up, etc... </TD></TR></TABLE> you basically said the same thing that i did but just in a different way.
we are both some knowledgeable mother *******
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From: Orange County, Ca, USA
Re: the end of the world as we know it (Racer28)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racer28 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> you basically said the same thing that i did but just in a different way.
we are both some knowledgeable mother ******* </TD></TR></TABLE>
we are both some knowledgeable mother *******
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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