After having searched I found nothing on a comparison for the two. Is one really better than the other or is are all poly. bushings pretty much the same? I'm going to be using these on GSR rear LCAs I just bought from hmotorsonline (a cool place to visit if your in the burbank area).

 

I e-mailed energy suspension with the question of "Why should I buy your product instead of Prothane's?" & also asked what their warranty was (Prothane's is lifetime)

This is the reply I received:

"The warranty is 2 years and our product is just plain better."

To answer your question though...I don't know. Even though Prothane is more expensive I like the fact that they stand behind their product.

 

This may be somewhat off-topic, but I have the energy suspension shift bushings for 6+ months and I've had no problem with them. ES gets a thumbs up from me.

 

Not sure the durometer number but prothane are stiffer.

And the prothane trailing arm bushing is superior to energy suspension and is the only urethane bushing to even attempt to put there.

The es guys must of been stoned, drunk or both when they created that bushing cause they are just engineered wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sequoyah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I e-mailed energy suspension with the question of "Why should I buy your product instead of Prothane's?" & also asked what their warranty was (Prothane's is lifetime)

This is the reply I received:

"The warranty is 2 years and our product is just plain better."

To answer your question though...I don't know. Even though Prothane is more expensive I like the fact that they stand behind their product.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you worked in sales before? I have and I hated questions like that. That's a terrible question to ask. What did you expect them to say? You can read their website to see any information about the product and chances are nobody at Energy suspension has even seen a Prothane bushing so how can you ask them to make a comparison?

Ask specific questions, and you will get specific answers.

 

I think his issue is with the way in which he was answered. Customer service means dealing with this sort of thing and deal with it in a professional matter, whether or not you enjoy the questions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CelicaGTV6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Have you worked in sales before? I have and I hated questions like that. That's a terrible question to ask. What did you expect them to say? You can read their website to see any information about the product and chances are nobody at Energy suspension has even seen a Prothane bushing so how can you ask them to make a comparison?

Ask specific questions, and you will get specific answers.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm your Huckleberry. The proper response would be to ask the customer to be more specific. Tolerances, durometer, price, availability, and customer support would all play roles into the customer's purchasing decision. Simply saying your product is better without an explanation is lazy. If the rep can't give a solid answer, he/she shouldn't be answering the questions.

I've never spoken to ES reps, but have spoken to Chris at Prothane, as should you.

Prothane: 1-888-PROTHANE

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superdupervtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not sure the durometer number but prothane are stiffer.

And the prothane trailing arm bushing is superior to energy suspension and is the only urethane bushing to even attempt to put there.

The es guys must of been stoned, drunk or both when they created that bushing cause they are just engineered wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How is the ES bushing engineered wrong? I'm not busting *****, but looking to see if you have some substance to your argument.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think his issue is with the way in which he was answered. Customer service means dealing with this sort of thing and deal with it in a professional matter, whether or not you enjoy the questions. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well… mostly. However, with a question like that, how does one know how to answer? The rep could have gone into stupid amounts of detail, but if the customer just wanted to know something superficial, the rep’s time would be wasted. Time=money

Rule of thumb: The customer is NOT always right. (Actually, I’ve found, more often than not, the customer is usually wrong. That’s fine as long as they don’t expect the salesman to spoon feed all the information to them. I’m only willing to put in as much effort as the customer is willing to put out.)

In the time it would take to write up the history of polyurethane, how ES samples their product for quality often (I'm making this up. I don't know), and how they found certain goop to work better than others, etcetera, that rep could have helped 10 other customers who had specific inquiries. All the while, this customer just wanted to hear “Ours is better because our polyurethane is a special blend of different polymers that help reduce noise transmission while providing minimal deflection.” Complete BS reply, but how do you know what the customer wants if he doesn’t ask?

It’s about EFFICIENT customer service. I’m willing to bet he would have received a better response if he had asked:

“I am considering your bushing kit for my car and notice that Prothane also sells a kit. I primarily use my car to do a, b, and c. In comparing the two brands, I’d like to know x, y, and z, about your product as I don’t see this information advertised on your website. Any information you can provide regarding the material used, or the uniqueness in your design, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.”

That way, the rep thinks: “Gee, this guy’s got a clue. Let me see what I can find out for him regarding x, y, and z”

Alternatively, if one receives an e-mail that says:

Why should I buy your product instead of Prothane's?

All I would think is: “This guy is a tool. Has he even looked at our website? What kind of car does he have, what will he be doing with it, and why should I waste my time if he doesn't seem to be willing to put any effort forth?"

 

I had sent a question to ES about the civic master set, and if it came with the power steering bushing. Their response was very short, along the lines of "yes, PS". If you've ever seen my posts, I don't write one-lines often.

I'll admit their answer to your question wasn't close to what it could have been, same for your question. Thats not the point here. I would only expect them to know if they did side by side compairisons and/or if 'better' was clairified as the bushings offering less deflection, less vibration transmission, etc. The nature of polyurethane means even crappy stuff will last as long as your car. It's really the design, moulding, cutting, and quality control that makes the big difference.

Anyways, for a daily driver I'd go with all ES (except for the trailing arm & rear parts ES doesn't make), and prothane for the rest.

 

Still no repy as to why the ES trailing arm bushings are "sub standard"...

 

I'd just as soon assume that my potential customer is asking a vague question because he is trying to learn, not because he is asking to be spoon-fed information. Sometimes the consumer isn't left with a lot of reputable places to go for reliable information, so they might feel that the best place to ask is the source, and I don't blame them. I see no reason to turn someone away if they are looking for knowledge.
It takes me all of 20 minutes to type out some of my lengthier responses, but its 20 minutes that I find very easy to spend, because
a. I know my product
b. I don't look at it is a "burden" to answer and educate.
I don't consider it time or money lost at all, but progress (since education is one of our two main goals). And, running a small company, I know as well as anyone that time is valuable. But its not reason to shirk off your responsibility to the consumer. Not everyone knows exactly what question to ask, and its not their fault.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd just as soon assume that my potential customer is asking a vague question because he is trying to learn, not because he is asking to be spoon-fed information. Sometimes the consumer isn't left with a lot of reputable places to go for reliable information, so they might feel that the best place to ask is the source, and I don't blame them. I see no reason to turn someone away if they are looking for knowledge.
It takes me all of 20 minutes to type out some of my lengthier responses, but its 20 minutes that I find very easy to spend, because
a. I know my product
b. I don't look at it is a "burden" to answer and educate.
I don't consider it time or money lost at all, but progress (since education is one of our two main goals). And, running a small company, I know as well as anyone that time is valuable. But its not reason to shirk off your responsibility to the consumer. Not everyone knows exactly what question to ask, and its not their fault. </TD></TR></TABLE>

woah! CelicaGYv6...to answer one of your questions to me. Yes. I have worked a variety of 'sales' jobs and am well aware of customer behavior, unfortunately. ES may offer a superior product to Prothane and that is the sales reps job to promote the product and the company. ES is a lot cheaper and only offer a 2-year warranty on their product as opposed to Prothane's higher price, but they come with a lifetime (original owner I believe) warranty.

Should I have asked him specifically about their (ES) cheaper price and equate that to their short warranty? I don't know why they are priced so differently for a "similar' product. Who is Energy Suspensions major competition...? I bet it's Prothane. They know about them and should not talk **** about the other company, but rather inform and educate the 'consumer' about their product. If you are in sales your probably as lazy as the sales rep. from ES and should find a different job.

What follows is a question I sent to a sales rep. at Discount Tire about some Eibach Pro-kit springs for my car:

' am interested in buying these for my car and was wondering what the price was. The car is a 1991 Honda CRX Si. '

The reponse:

'Hello Keith,

Greetings from Discount Tire Direct :

We appreciate your interest in our company. The cost of the Eibach Pro-
Kit for your vehicle is $218.00. We will ship them within the contiguous
United States for free. You can purchase this kit by contacting me at the
number listed below. If you have anyq uestions please let me know and I
will gladly assist you.

Do you want to know how to get a free tire? Ask about our certificate for
free replacement program.

If we can be of further assistance, please reply to this e-mail or contact
us by either of the following methods:
Phone: 888-216-9927

http://www.discounttiredirect....at.do

Sincerely,

Chuck Locke
1-888-216-9927 Ext. 350
Product Specialist
Discount Tire Direct'

While somewhat generic...I appreciated the response I got from them. I have e-mailed back a couple of different times and received prompt replys....a salesman doing his job...imagine that. btw, I will probably end up buying from them (Discount Tire) again /rant

...not trying to hi-jack the thread, but in a way it does reflect on one aspect of Energy Suspension as a company.





Modified by Sequoyah at 9:25 PM 11/21/2005


Modified by Sequoyah at 9:21 AM 11/22/2005

 

i have been in the parts industry for over 3 years now and can tell you for one that customer service has never been ES's strong point. Their website sucks, their catalogs are difficult and ordering has never been easy. But their products are of good quality and excellent price. for some thngs i believe that is a very fair trade. i am willing to trade some service for quality and price point.

Does prothane provide a better product? maybe. But, until ES screws up majorly or their products fail me, i will be loyal to their low cost products.

 

i have ES think there just fine ! and they do the job...

 

Thanks for all the replies so far. I think I'll end up going with ES again(I have the master kit but with the GSR LCAs for the rear swaybar I now have the bushings won't transfer from the civic LCAs). I really just wanted to know if anybody could tell me why prothanes are more. I most likely will not get a trailing arm bushing (not too sure how it came up in the replies) from either company because I've heard they bind.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd just as soon assume that my potential customer is asking a vague question because he is trying to learn, not because he is asking to be spoon-fed information. Sometimes the consumer isn't left with a lot of reputable places to go for reliable information, so they might feel that the best place to ask is the source, and I don't blame them. I see no reason to turn someone away if they are looking for knowledge.
It takes me all of 20 minutes to type out some of my lengthier responses, but its 20 minutes that I find very easy to spend, because
a. I know my product
b. I don't look at it is a "burden" to answer and educate.
I don't consider it time or money lost at all, but progress (since education is one of our two main goals). And, running a small company, I know as well as anyone that time is valuable. But its not reason to shirk off your responsibility to the consumer. Not everyone knows exactly what question to ask, and its not their fault. </TD></TR></TABLE>

While I tend to agree with your attitude, more often than not, I found myself answering questions the customer never intended to ask.

In this customer's case, I probably would have simply responded with :

"What exactly do you want to know about our products? I'll be happy to provide any information I can but I need some specifics. What are you doing with the vehicle? What kind of vehicle is it? Please feel free to call me at extension 1234, or e-mail me directly at blahblah@fakeemailforenergysuspension.com

Best Regards,

Adrian"

So to that, I'd say ES fell a bit short, but isn't completely at fault.

 

They require you to reuse the stock metal mount (inner bar), while Prothane uses a new adjustable bar, which also has lube slot cut into the poly around the hole. The Prothane also has a metal tube around it like stock bushings, which I think is mostly for ease of instal. Beyond that, I dunno

 

the prothane is a complete new bushing with sleeves and new pin.

Es makes you reuse the original pin which they want you to clean down to bare metal and since it is under the car it rust and causes binding.

 

The reason people say that Poly bushings bind in the rear trailing arm position, is because it is thought that they do not allow the proper pivoting that the trailing arm requires as it's camber changes through the suspension stroke. The trailing arm will roll side to side on the stock rubber bushing like a spherical bearing as it's travels through compression & rebound.

The poly bushings are designed to let the trailing arm pivot up & down (ride height), and the loose center shaft allows the bushing to slide side to side (toe), but some think they are to stiff to allow the arm to pivot side to side (camber)...

Personally I would to recomend either stock/mugen rubber bushings (street), or spherical bearings with sliding shaft design (race) for this location...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason people say that Poly bushings bind in the rear trailing arm position, is because it is thought that they do not allow the proper pivoting that the trailing arm requires as it's camber changes through the suspension stroke. The trailing arm will roll side to side on the stock rubber bushing like a spherical bearing as it's travels through compression & rebound.

The poly bushings are designed to let the trailing arm pivot up & down (ride height), and the loose center shaft allows the bushing to slide side to side (toe), but some think they are to stiff to allow the arm to pivot side to side (camber)...

Personally I would to recomend either stock/mugen rubber bushings (street), or spherical bearings with sliding shaft design (race) for this location... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I keep seeing speculation on the ES trailing arm bushing... but no one has really contributed any experience.

 

***edit***

 

No one has given you experience because it's an old debate that has died long ago. Do some searching & you will find many threads, with personal experience, about it...

 

its not speculation. 94eg is right that ppl have used the ES bushing and not been happy. and if you analyze the design, its flawed and different than the way stock is designed. however, there are many who do use em and have not found any negative effects. because they do change how the suspension works, but it doesnt make the suspension totally inoperable. so ppl make do with em and are successful at still driving their car.

but most ppl who just use ES bushings for the street, say stuff like, OH MY GOD, suspension is like "night and day", blah blah blah. well, somethings different... really different. wonder why... its JUST bushings... to me, sounds like its doing more than the expected effect of just replacing bushings... like binding the suspension, changing caster angles and what not.

 

In retort to the "slam".

I'm no superhonda kid here... I've combed HT the last couple of days since I've got the bug on this issue (I do have the ES hyper flex/trailing arm bushings to install next week in my old, tired GSR beater car). Matter of fact, all I've found on this issue is more of the same... he said, she said. I've not contributed to this board since 2003 when I decided to give the Evo a try. However, I kept the GSR and let the Type R go. So, naturally, when I had a question about the GSR, I came back here expecting the same quality of people I left. I must say... things aren't what they used to be... this will be the end of my open discussion (or lack there of) on this subject as any comments other than tech, belong in PM's/Emails and not scattered all over the place like dirty laundry. However, feel free to remain "status quo", and get the last word in as I'm done...