Civic Si 03 - Daily/Fun Driver - What is the most bang for buck?
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Pawling, NY, USA
Civic Si 03 - Daily/Fun Driver - What is the most bang for buck?
*Backstory, cut to the chase below this.
I work in accounting and I am a student. I drive about 100 miles every weekday to work and school. I don't have a lot of money so the choices I make have to be smart. Aside from a AEM V2 intake and a new set of nice uni-directional tires, my car is stock. (K20A3) My car is not a race car and I don't think I'll ever see the track. I still want to get the most out of my car that I can. As my budget is limited, the improvements I make must be economical. (for example, I can't bring my gas milage down to 20mpg.) I have resorted to reducing my food budget to get extra money for improvements to my car. (As well as being healthier and reducing the weight my car carries.) I live on a mountain (and a dirt road) so torque is a must, I've decided not to increase the rim diameter. I bought and read a book on Honda/Acura performance but since it was written in 1999 it doesn't contain any info specific to my car. (Doesn't even list the engine.) I have limited automotive repair/maintenance XP.
* I've narrowed it down to a few improvements and I wanted to get everyones opinion on them.
1. AEM pulleys. Cheap, like $70 bucks. Will take stress off the motor and let some HP get to the wheels. I can't imagine this would be easy to put in looking at where the pulleys are on a horizontally mounted engine.
2. AEM fuel rail. More like $150. Easy to get to and may get me more out of my stock injectors when I need it.
3. Nology Wires and Plugs. Like $200 for the wires and $10 a plug. I already have an aftermarket Air Intake. (required for installation) Doesn't look that hard to get to.
4. Stiffer springs for the back wheels. ($?)Recommended by the book to promote oversteer, I don't think my car really need it.
5. Replace the bushings on the suspension. ($200 ?) The steering is pretty tight and I wanna keep it that way. I don't know if there is a set I could buy to replace a bunch at once. I also wanted to replace the bushigs for the engine mounts but I think that might be well past my means.
6. Clutch/Transmission/Differential work. This will need to be done eventually anyway so If I get a long life clutch plate or a LSD or lighter fly wheel I can get more power off the line. Would it be cheaper to get these all done at once. (since they are in the same area.) I know I would have to say well over $1000 and this would prevent me doing anything for at least 6 months.
7. Try to get a second job in some place that has a lift. (repair shop/ parts store / quick lube / Tire shop.) This suggestion would make money instead of take it but I'm not sure who would hire me and I'd ony be able to work PT for like a day or so a week. I guess I could wash and undercoat my car on off hours. Right now this isn't feezable and I'm not sure about the future but i'm willing to make a commitment to my most expensive and usefull possesion. (The closest store from my house is 5 miles.) I have no XP so I don't even think a cool place would hire me.
8. Relocating Battery to the back or wiring another battery in parrallel for more amps. I figure with more weight in the rear i could do a little drifting. (Which is crazy cool) Also anything that free's more space and makes the engine easier to get to is a plus. If it was cheap I'd relocate the battery, washer fluid and any electronics to the trunk. This is a more long term goal and doesn't really increase the drivability of the car.
Any thoughts?
Modified by drew1d at 8:32 AM 11/9/2005
I work in accounting and I am a student. I drive about 100 miles every weekday to work and school. I don't have a lot of money so the choices I make have to be smart. Aside from a AEM V2 intake and a new set of nice uni-directional tires, my car is stock. (K20A3) My car is not a race car and I don't think I'll ever see the track. I still want to get the most out of my car that I can. As my budget is limited, the improvements I make must be economical. (for example, I can't bring my gas milage down to 20mpg.) I have resorted to reducing my food budget to get extra money for improvements to my car. (As well as being healthier and reducing the weight my car carries.) I live on a mountain (and a dirt road) so torque is a must, I've decided not to increase the rim diameter. I bought and read a book on Honda/Acura performance but since it was written in 1999 it doesn't contain any info specific to my car. (Doesn't even list the engine.) I have limited automotive repair/maintenance XP.
* I've narrowed it down to a few improvements and I wanted to get everyones opinion on them.
1. AEM pulleys. Cheap, like $70 bucks. Will take stress off the motor and let some HP get to the wheels. I can't imagine this would be easy to put in looking at where the pulleys are on a horizontally mounted engine.
2. AEM fuel rail. More like $150. Easy to get to and may get me more out of my stock injectors when I need it.
3. Nology Wires and Plugs. Like $200 for the wires and $10 a plug. I already have an aftermarket Air Intake. (required for installation) Doesn't look that hard to get to.
4. Stiffer springs for the back wheels. ($?)Recommended by the book to promote oversteer, I don't think my car really need it.
5. Replace the bushings on the suspension. ($200 ?) The steering is pretty tight and I wanna keep it that way. I don't know if there is a set I could buy to replace a bunch at once. I also wanted to replace the bushigs for the engine mounts but I think that might be well past my means.
6. Clutch/Transmission/Differential work. This will need to be done eventually anyway so If I get a long life clutch plate or a LSD or lighter fly wheel I can get more power off the line. Would it be cheaper to get these all done at once. (since they are in the same area.) I know I would have to say well over $1000 and this would prevent me doing anything for at least 6 months.
7. Try to get a second job in some place that has a lift. (repair shop/ parts store / quick lube / Tire shop.) This suggestion would make money instead of take it but I'm not sure who would hire me and I'd ony be able to work PT for like a day or so a week. I guess I could wash and undercoat my car on off hours. Right now this isn't feezable and I'm not sure about the future but i'm willing to make a commitment to my most expensive and usefull possesion. (The closest store from my house is 5 miles.) I have no XP so I don't even think a cool place would hire me.
8. Relocating Battery to the back or wiring another battery in parrallel for more amps. I figure with more weight in the rear i could do a little drifting. (Which is crazy cool) Also anything that free's more space and makes the engine easier to get to is a plus. If it was cheap I'd relocate the battery, washer fluid and any electronics to the trunk. This is a more long term goal and doesn't really increase the drivability of the car.
Any thoughts?
Modified by drew1d at 8:32 AM 11/9/2005
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
From: Irvine, CA, USA
your intent is good, but your method is wrong.
best bang-for-the-buck in driving this car (IMHO):
15x7 wheels and 225-50-15 tires
19mm+ rear sway bar (don't touch the front)
2.25" midpipe
upgraded brake pads
stainless brake and clutch lines
aftermarket shocks and springs
the fuel rail isn't going to help you unless you have the need for it (forced induction or heavy internal engine work, plus without the ecu to control added fueling, it's really pretty useless.
pulleys aren't great for daily driven cars. if the crank pulley has a harmonic damper and re replace it with one that doesn't you're asking for trouble.
wires and plugs do not help a stock car unless the ones you're currently using are bad. even then, upgraded wires like NGK or magnecor are the way to go.
stiffer springs in the rear while remaining on stock spring rates is dangerous, particularly if your driving ability isn't there (and probably isn't). a larger rear sway bar will help reduce your car's understeer. driving technique can be used to induce instant oversteer or rotation, but shouldn't be practiced on public roads.
transmission/lsd, and flywheel changes DO NOT make more power. they distribute the available torque differently and in the case of a lightened flywheel, they eliminate weight.
a part-time job at a garage rarely entitles you to afterhour access, because you typically need a key to do this.
relocating the battery to the rear may help a little, but considering the weight bias, front to rear, it's not going to help that much.
your best bet for inexpensive mods:
learn to drive better. autocross is a great way to begin. HPDE courses are worth every penny.
a good driver in an average car will beat an average driver in a good car everytime.
Modified by kung fu grip at 1:05 PM 11/9/2005
best bang-for-the-buck in driving this car (IMHO):
15x7 wheels and 225-50-15 tires
19mm+ rear sway bar (don't touch the front)
2.25" midpipe
upgraded brake pads
stainless brake and clutch lines
aftermarket shocks and springs
the fuel rail isn't going to help you unless you have the need for it (forced induction or heavy internal engine work, plus without the ecu to control added fueling, it's really pretty useless.
pulleys aren't great for daily driven cars. if the crank pulley has a harmonic damper and re replace it with one that doesn't you're asking for trouble.
wires and plugs do not help a stock car unless the ones you're currently using are bad. even then, upgraded wires like NGK or magnecor are the way to go.
stiffer springs in the rear while remaining on stock spring rates is dangerous, particularly if your driving ability isn't there (and probably isn't). a larger rear sway bar will help reduce your car's understeer. driving technique can be used to induce instant oversteer or rotation, but shouldn't be practiced on public roads.
transmission/lsd, and flywheel changes DO NOT make more power. they distribute the available torque differently and in the case of a lightened flywheel, they eliminate weight.
a part-time job at a garage rarely entitles you to afterhour access, because you typically need a key to do this.
relocating the battery to the rear may help a little, but considering the weight bias, front to rear, it's not going to help that much.
your best bet for inexpensive mods:
learn to drive better. autocross is a great way to begin. HPDE courses are worth every penny.
a good driver in an average car will beat an average driver in a good car everytime.
Modified by kung fu grip at 1:05 PM 11/9/2005
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Pawling, NY, USA
Re: (kung fu grip)
Thank you for your candid and honest response. After consideration of your reply, I think it would be best if I get my brakes done and mount that rear sway bar. I think maybe I'll go to one of the autocross "Events" and see what it's about before I start saving for lessons. I guess I got caught up in wanting something physical/tangible and failed to see what I really want, to have a good time driving.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,008
Likes: 1
Re: (drew1d)
i haven't modified my car much yet. but i do go out to autocross events with a near stock car. and i have to say i enjoy my car very, very much.
what bothers me though is my all season tires and the amount of body roll i get. autocrossing has made me want to do is get new tires and a rollcage, or at least a rear sway bar.
what bothers me though is my all season tires and the amount of body roll i get. autocrossing has made me want to do is get new tires and a rollcage, or at least a rear sway bar.
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 0
From: Washington, DC, USA
Re: (kung fu grip)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kung fu grip »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's been my experience that people run out of talent long before they run out of car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True.
A driver with more talent can drive your car (no matter what car it is) faster than you do.
True.
A driver with more talent can drive your car (no matter what car it is) faster than you do.
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 0
From: Washington, DC, USA
Re: (kung fu grip)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kung fu grip »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">best bang-for-the-buck in driving this car (IMHO):
15x7 wheels and 225-50-15 tires
19mm+ rear sway bar (don't touch the front)
2.25" midpipe
upgraded brake pads
stainless brake and clutch lines
aftermarket shocks and springs
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good list, and accurate assessment of your other ideas (pulleys, wires, etc).
Here's the caveat: cheap is cheap.
If you skimp on, say, springs & shocks, odds are greater that you'll have problems later. Save up a little longer, then go for the good stuff. Honda's already done a darn good job of engineering the car, so don't cheapen it with half-assed modifications.
15x7 wheels and 225-50-15 tires
19mm+ rear sway bar (don't touch the front)
2.25" midpipe
upgraded brake pads
stainless brake and clutch lines
aftermarket shocks and springs
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good list, and accurate assessment of your other ideas (pulleys, wires, etc).
Here's the caveat: cheap is cheap.
If you skimp on, say, springs & shocks, odds are greater that you'll have problems later. Save up a little longer, then go for the good stuff. Honda's already done a darn good job of engineering the car, so don't cheapen it with half-assed modifications.
Trending Topics
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, OH
Re: Civic Si 03 - Daily/Fun Driver - What is the most bang for buck? (slowDA)
Like the guys before me said, learning to drive helps more than anything. Having said that we all want our cars to perfrom better and look a little different than everyone elses.
I added the HFP non-adjustable coilovers and have been very happy with them, especially for the price. College Hill Honda on ebay had them for like $450 plus shipping, those guys have some great deals and their shipping and service was great. Adding a thicker rear swap bar and better tires will turn the ep3 into a very nice handling car for not a lot of money.
Making more power, this is the more expensive part of the equation. BarracksSi has done a really nice job with his bolt ons and added about 30 net horsepower I believe. He used a Mugen airbox, oem Acura header and cat and I think a CTR exhuast, in other words he spent some coin. However this is all bolt on stuff and still a lot less than a swap or going FI.
I added the HFP non-adjustable coilovers and have been very happy with them, especially for the price. College Hill Honda on ebay had them for like $450 plus shipping, those guys have some great deals and their shipping and service was great. Adding a thicker rear swap bar and better tires will turn the ep3 into a very nice handling car for not a lot of money.
Making more power, this is the more expensive part of the equation. BarracksSi has done a really nice job with his bolt ons and added about 30 net horsepower I believe. He used a Mugen airbox, oem Acura header and cat and I think a CTR exhuast, in other words he spent some coin. However this is all bolt on stuff and still a lot less than a swap or going FI.
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 0
From: Washington, DC, USA
Re: Civic Si 03 - Daily/Fun Driver - What is the most bang for buck? (giff74)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Making more power, this is the more expensive part of the equation. BarracksSi has done a really nice job with his bolt ons and added about 30 net horsepower I believe. He used a Mugen airbox, oem Acura header and cat and I think a CTR exhuast, in other words he spent some coin. However this is all bolt on stuff and still a lot less than a swap or going FI. </TD></TR></TABLE>
More engine power is definitely the most expensive part.
I think that anyone could get similar power gains for less money than I spent, though (although to be fair, I never dynoed my car when it was stock, so I don't know how much it used to make; it could've been kinda strong already). A regular, less-restrictive tube-style intake would do fine on a dyno, as would probably any larger-diameter "block-back" full exhaust system. I got the parts that I did mainly because I had the funds available -- if I got other stuff instead, I still would've lusted after the Mugen & Fujitsubo parts. The Type-S header & cat -- especially the cat -- probably made that extra bit of difference that really helped the dyno numbers.
More engine power is definitely the most expensive part.
I think that anyone could get similar power gains for less money than I spent, though (although to be fair, I never dynoed my car when it was stock, so I don't know how much it used to make; it could've been kinda strong already). A regular, less-restrictive tube-style intake would do fine on a dyno, as would probably any larger-diameter "block-back" full exhaust system. I got the parts that I did mainly because I had the funds available -- if I got other stuff instead, I still would've lusted after the Mugen & Fujitsubo parts. The Type-S header & cat -- especially the cat -- probably made that extra bit of difference that really helped the dyno numbers.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: Where Theives Are at, USA
Re: Civic Si 03 - Daily/Fun Driver - What is the most bang for buck? (drew1d)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drew1d »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*Backstory, cut to the chase below this.
I work in accounting and I am a student. I drive about 100 miles every weekday to work and school. I don't have a lot of money so the choices I make have to be smart. Aside from a AEM V2 intake and a new set of nice uni-directional tires, my car is stock. (K20A3) My car is not a race car and I don't think I'll ever see the track. I still want to get the most out of my car that I can. As my budget is limited, the improvements I make must be economical. (for example, I can't bring my gas milage down to 20mpg.) I have resorted to reducing my food budget to get extra money for improvements to my car. (As well as being healthier and reducing the weight my car carries.) I live on a mountain (and a dirt road) so torque is a must, I've decided not to increase the rim diameter. I bought and read a book on Honda/Acura performance but since it was written in 1999 it doesn't contain any info specific to my car. (Doesn't even list the engine.) I have limited automotive repair/maintenance XP.
* I've narrowed it down to a few improvements and I wanted to get everyones opinion on them.
1. AEM pulleys. Cheap, like $70 bucks. Will take stress off the motor and let some HP get to the wheels. I can't imagine this would be easy to put in looking at where the pulleys are on a horizontally mounted engine.
2. AEM fuel rail. More like $150. Easy to get to and may get me more out of my stock injectors when I need it.
3. Nology Wires and Plugs. Like $200 for the wires and $10 a plug. I already have an aftermarket Air Intake. (required for installation) Doesn't look that hard to get to.
4. Stiffer springs for the back wheels. ($?)Recommended by the book to promote oversteer, I don't think my car really need it.
5. Replace the bushings on the suspension. ($200 ?) The steering is pretty tight and I wanna keep it that way. I don't know if there is a set I could buy to replace a bunch at once. I also wanted to replace the bushigs for the engine mounts but I think that might be well past my means.
6. Clutch/Transmission/Differential work. This will need to be done eventually anyway so If I get a long life clutch plate or a LSD or lighter fly wheel I can get more power off the line. Would it be cheaper to get these all done at once. (since they are in the same area.) I know I would have to say well over $1000 and this would prevent me doing anything for at least 6 months.
7. Try to get a second job in some place that has a lift. (repair shop/ parts store / quick lube / Tire shop.) This suggestion would make money instead of take it but I'm not sure who would hire me and I'd ony be able to work PT for like a day or so a week. I guess I could wash and undercoat my car on off hours. Right now this isn't feezable and I'm not sure about the future but i'm willing to make a commitment to my most expensive and usefull possesion. (The closest store from my house is 5 miles.) I have no XP so I don't even think a cool place would hire me.
8. Relocating Battery to the back or wiring another battery in parrallel for more amps. I figure with more weight in the rear i could do a little drifting. (Which is crazy cool) Also anything that free's more space and makes the engine easier to get to is a plus. If it was cheap I'd relocate the battery, washer fluid and any electronics to the trunk. This is a more long term goal and doesn't really increase the drivability of the car.
Any thoughts?
Modified by drew1d at 8:32 AM 11/9/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
Best Bang For your buck.
DC sports Race header
Hondata rEflash
AEM or Injen Cold air intake
HKS hiper Cat-back or RSR.
I work in accounting and I am a student. I drive about 100 miles every weekday to work and school. I don't have a lot of money so the choices I make have to be smart. Aside from a AEM V2 intake and a new set of nice uni-directional tires, my car is stock. (K20A3) My car is not a race car and I don't think I'll ever see the track. I still want to get the most out of my car that I can. As my budget is limited, the improvements I make must be economical. (for example, I can't bring my gas milage down to 20mpg.) I have resorted to reducing my food budget to get extra money for improvements to my car. (As well as being healthier and reducing the weight my car carries.) I live on a mountain (and a dirt road) so torque is a must, I've decided not to increase the rim diameter. I bought and read a book on Honda/Acura performance but since it was written in 1999 it doesn't contain any info specific to my car. (Doesn't even list the engine.) I have limited automotive repair/maintenance XP.
* I've narrowed it down to a few improvements and I wanted to get everyones opinion on them.
1. AEM pulleys. Cheap, like $70 bucks. Will take stress off the motor and let some HP get to the wheels. I can't imagine this would be easy to put in looking at where the pulleys are on a horizontally mounted engine.
2. AEM fuel rail. More like $150. Easy to get to and may get me more out of my stock injectors when I need it.
3. Nology Wires and Plugs. Like $200 for the wires and $10 a plug. I already have an aftermarket Air Intake. (required for installation) Doesn't look that hard to get to.
4. Stiffer springs for the back wheels. ($?)Recommended by the book to promote oversteer, I don't think my car really need it.
5. Replace the bushings on the suspension. ($200 ?) The steering is pretty tight and I wanna keep it that way. I don't know if there is a set I could buy to replace a bunch at once. I also wanted to replace the bushigs for the engine mounts but I think that might be well past my means.
6. Clutch/Transmission/Differential work. This will need to be done eventually anyway so If I get a long life clutch plate or a LSD or lighter fly wheel I can get more power off the line. Would it be cheaper to get these all done at once. (since they are in the same area.) I know I would have to say well over $1000 and this would prevent me doing anything for at least 6 months.
7. Try to get a second job in some place that has a lift. (repair shop/ parts store / quick lube / Tire shop.) This suggestion would make money instead of take it but I'm not sure who would hire me and I'd ony be able to work PT for like a day or so a week. I guess I could wash and undercoat my car on off hours. Right now this isn't feezable and I'm not sure about the future but i'm willing to make a commitment to my most expensive and usefull possesion. (The closest store from my house is 5 miles.) I have no XP so I don't even think a cool place would hire me.
8. Relocating Battery to the back or wiring another battery in parrallel for more amps. I figure with more weight in the rear i could do a little drifting. (Which is crazy cool) Also anything that free's more space and makes the engine easier to get to is a plus. If it was cheap I'd relocate the battery, washer fluid and any electronics to the trunk. This is a more long term goal and doesn't really increase the drivability of the car.
Any thoughts?
Modified by drew1d at 8:32 AM 11/9/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
Best Bang For your buck.
DC sports Race header
Hondata rEflash
AEM or Injen Cold air intake
HKS hiper Cat-back or RSR.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ActiveAero
Road Racing / Autocross & Time Attack
12
Oct 2, 2001 09:28 AM