So I've heard a lot of positive feedback about the Crower 403 and a bit about the 402 in an LS. Has anyone tried the corresponding Crane cams? Either part #101-0012 or #101-0012. Unfortunately Crane doesn't have any dynos on their site that I've seen so its hard to say what the hp/tq figures would improve to on an LS. Both higher end sets would require getting that company's springs and retainer set. Has anyone had problems with either of those sets?
I've found the crower's online for cheap so those are more the ones I'm leaning towards but I'm trying to get as much info as I can.
Also who makes the best Cam gears for the money?
any informative input is much appreciated.

 

i have yet to come across and comments or dyno plots with anyone running crane cams.

i'd be interested in seeing some though. crane does make good products

 

I too would love to see a dyno plot of the crane cams. I would think that the crane 101-0012 cams would lose a little down low to the crower 402 due to its higher duration but I don't know about the top end because the crower has more lift while the 101-0012 has more duration.

 

Would you compare the 403 to the 101-0012 rather than the 402, the 402 seems to have more similarities with the 101-0010?

 

FOOSH!! Right over my head... Sorry to do this but can someone explain those numbers for me? Its the only way we teenagers will learn!

 

those are part numbers

 

Sorry, those are just the product codes for the different cams. If you check out http://www.crower.com and http://www.cranecams.com/cranecams.htm you'll see the different product codes associated with the cam sets we're talking about. Cams are usually designated by stages, so the 402 and the 101-0010 are both considered stage2 cams and the 403 and the 101-0012 are both considered stage 3 cams. Stage 3 seems to be the highest stage you can go in terms of increased lift and duration and still maintain an engine which can be comfortably driven on the street. Mostly meaning it doesn't have a wicked idle that you'd hate to be sitting at a stoplight during. As for what exactly the increased lift and duration accomplish they essentially let more air in and out of the combustion chamber on each cycle. And more air means more combustion, ie more power of course to go along with more air you need more fuel and you also need to start tuning at the timing of the cam lobes by using adjustable cam gears but now I'm starting to get in over my head. Hope that explains a bit of it.
If you do go to the crower website take a look at the dyno chart they post and see what kind of a power increase a change in camshafts will get you. now if only someone who's got the crane cams will respond to this post we'll be all set!

 

Well, all I have are rave reviews about the Crower 403's. This is on stock valve springs and the idle is pretty good. Gas mileage on the freeway is about the same as before. And the power is awesome, these cams straight YANK. I personally would probably go with a product many LS owners love: the 403's.

 

the 404's are useless without a good ecu

 

are you running them? in which case what are you using for an ECU?

G2Integrity,
You've got a good point and I probably will go with the Crowers but I was hoping that someone out there would read this and post some feedback on the Crane's. You definitely seem to be a fan of the 403's. about how much did you end up paying for them? and how much was the install or did you do that yourself? props if you did.

 

i run the 404's in my b20.

 

and what's your opinion on them? are you running a custom ECU in there as was mentioned above? I see that you have them in your daily driver, are there any drawbacks on the daily driver side to have 3/4 race cams in your engine? I'd imagine that in a civic hatch that engine can haul! TIA.

 

i have a obd1 ls ecu and a s-afc. it takes some tuning to make it idle right(especially with my cam gear settings) but it makes alot of power. hx_guy told me his friend had the 403's and made 10 hsp less than the 404's with the same mods. it is my daily driver and i've had no problems with the car as of yet.

the car has alot of torque and definatly is fun to drive.........for what it is.

 

One last question. Would an S-AFC be needed to fix the idle with the 403's (with the valve springs and titanium retainers)? BTW my car is a 96 auto w/ obd2.

 

i'd do a 5 speed conversion or sell the car and buy a manual before doing anything else if i were you. the afc probably wouldn't be manditory on the 403's but it would always help. plus, you can find them(afc's) used for reasonable prices now.

 

I don't think the 0012 compare well with the 403 because they seem to have about the same duration but the 403 have noticeably more lift so I think they will be superior everywhere on the powerband.

An important point to note is that crower says their spring and retainer kit are required for the 403 and up whereas crane doesn't require springs until you move to the 0018 which is a ridiculously aggressive cam.

I found a dyno for the 0012 but it is for the b18a here it is:
http://www.randomunity.com/hci/tech/...VTEChopup.html


[Modified by Muglit, 2:45 AM 3/11/2002]

 

LS_Racer: I payed $300 for the cams brand new. A guy in LA bought them then wrecked his car before he put them in. The install was $150, which included cutting the valve cover and replacing the valve cover gaskets.

Oh, and I'm running the 403's on stock springs. I talked to Crower about it and everything. You only need springs if you wanna go past the stock rev limit.

 

Muglit,
thanks for the link, its good to see some more concrete info on the cranes. I think you're probably right about the difference in lift supplying more power with the crower cams. they've also got a shorter duration so there should be a little less overlap as well, which seems like a good thing as well.

G2, thanks for the pricing info. I think I'll probably play it safe though and pick up the new springs and retainers while I'm at it. what do you mean by cutting the valve cover or is that on the end of the cover so one can adjust the cam gears?

 

402 are NOT worth the money, just get the 403' or the 404's and get the ti. retainers and dual springs, while you have the head off might as well port it also. Thats what I did with mine.

 

Yeah, cutting the valve cover lets you see/adjust the gears and see the timing belt as well.

 

It also allowes leaves, rocks, and other **** get caught up in your belt, if I was you I would get the circular cuts on it.

 

You don`t need to pull the head to change the cams do youç And how much was your settup with the cams, springs, retainers, then how much was the port on top of thatç

 

You don't need to take the head off to change the cams, but to change the valve springs with the head on is a tedious task. You need to pressurize the cylinders to avoid dropping a valve once the keeper is removed.

 

LS_Racer
Be careful when you look at the duration stats given by the manufacturer. Crower gives stats at .050" whereas crane gives stats at 1mm(typically more desired number) so the crower specs will be a little be a little lower than the crane specs. I have just been making educated guesses when comparing the durations

 

okay so bottom line, if I'm building this car up as an NA auto crossing track car, which would be the better cams for that application as well as allowing me to maintain a fair amount of streetability?
If the duration on the Crowers is for .05" which is 1.27mm then their duration at 1mm open should be higher shouldn't it? Since if they stay at 1.27 for a shorter time than the Cranes at 1mm, they might actually be about the same in terms of time above 1mm. does that make sense> so crower is actually trying to make their duration times seem lower in comparrison to the competition (Crane). hmmm.