Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much?
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Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much?
Ok so i heard the stock "swirlies" on the 97-01 base preludes weigh 17 lbs each... and my aftermarket motegi mr7's weigh 24.5 lbs each... and good low weight wheels weigh like 14 lbs or less...
I mean does the wheel weight matter that much? like my 24.5 lbs per wheel compared to 17 lbs stock wheels...how much would that be in a 1/4 mile etc? is it noticeable in accelleration??
I mean does the wheel weight matter that much? like my 24.5 lbs per wheel compared to 17 lbs stock wheels...how much would that be in a 1/4 mile etc? is it noticeable in accelleration??
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Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (abercrombemonkey)
The base wheels weigh 19lbs. It will be noticable in acceleration because the heavier wheels mean more rotating mass.
Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (mkazm83)
EVERYTHING would make a difference SOMEWHERE in the numbers. No matter what. Even if you switched something out with a idenitcal item it would make a difference even if you were not able to notice..
But something like, well if the wheels were 19lbs each, 5.5lbs per wheel x 4 equals 22lbs having to rotate which would cause more power to me spent trying to just move the wheels..
That's why HP is measured at the wheels and not just the crank, because the power at the crank is lost by the time it hits the wheels because of so many things it's being transfered through..
But something like, well if the wheels were 19lbs each, 5.5lbs per wheel x 4 equals 22lbs having to rotate which would cause more power to me spent trying to just move the wheels..
That's why HP is measured at the wheels and not just the crank, because the power at the crank is lost by the time it hits the wheels because of so many things it's being transfered through..
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From: Annapolis, MD
Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (abercrombemonkey)
How much of a weight difference that you will actually notice is hard to say. Although a lot of it has to do with how in-touch you are with your car, in general, its the combination of weight increase and rim diameter increase (mass moved farther away from the center of a rotating object) that slows you down.
For example, you probably will not notice the difference between an 18lb 16" wheel and a 21lb 16" wheel (assuming the same tire - some performance tires are super heavy eg. Potenza S03).
If you go from an 18lb 16" wheel to a 25lb 18" wheel, the difference should be noticable.
these are just generalizations but hopefully you get the idea. The increase of weight and diameter at the same time is what really gets you.
In terms of 1/4 mile time, there are a lot of human variables that come in to play.
switching from heavy 18's to light 16s should make a difference if you launch/drive consistently. How many tenths depends on the car and the engines specific powerband and output.
Forced induction cars with high torque can more readily overcome larger, heavier rims or accomodate them with less noticeable performance loss in everday driving. With a strong low-end, the difference in the quarter mile may be less noticeble than a small NA 4 cylinder car.
For example, you probably will not notice the difference between an 18lb 16" wheel and a 21lb 16" wheel (assuming the same tire - some performance tires are super heavy eg. Potenza S03).
If you go from an 18lb 16" wheel to a 25lb 18" wheel, the difference should be noticable.
these are just generalizations but hopefully you get the idea. The increase of weight and diameter at the same time is what really gets you.
In terms of 1/4 mile time, there are a lot of human variables that come in to play.
switching from heavy 18's to light 16s should make a difference if you launch/drive consistently. How many tenths depends on the car and the engines specific powerband and output.
Forced induction cars with high torque can more readily overcome larger, heavier rims or accomodate them with less noticeable performance loss in everday driving. With a strong low-end, the difference in the quarter mile may be less noticeble than a small NA 4 cylinder car.
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Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (abercrombemonkey)
if you race your car (at a track where someone is timing you) you'll see it does make a difference. If you just daily drive your car, it really doesn't matter much. If you want to see what difference it makes, put your stock wheels back on and drive. Its easier to feel the difference when you switch from a heavier wheel to a lighter one.
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Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (The_Sober)
I bought my car with some big-*** chrome 17"s but i decided to go back to stock, I could feel the differance in accelleration plus I pulled about an extra 3 miles per gallon.
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yes it will make a difference, if you want a fast car you're going to have to give some things up or spend more money.
I can notice my 9.5 lb wheels are faster than my 11lb wheels even when I only have 2 11.5 lb wheels on the fronts.
Also the size of a wheel and where the weight is matters, if you look at a VX wheel or ITR wheel you see lots of weight in the center, than thin-*** spokes near the rim, the further the weight is from the center the harder it is to turn (try spinning in an office chair with your arms out, then pull them in and see what happens)
hope this helps.
I can notice my 9.5 lb wheels are faster than my 11lb wheels even when I only have 2 11.5 lb wheels on the fronts.
Also the size of a wheel and where the weight is matters, if you look at a VX wheel or ITR wheel you see lots of weight in the center, than thin-*** spokes near the rim, the further the weight is from the center the harder it is to turn (try spinning in an office chair with your arms out, then pull them in and see what happens)
hope this helps.
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Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (MLBZ521)
[QUOTE=MLBZ521]
But something like, well if the wheels were 19lbs each, 5.5lbs per wheel x 4 equals 22lbs having to rotate which would cause more power to me spent trying to just move the wheels..
QUOTE]
only 2 wheels have power going to them, at least on a prelude.
But something like, well if the wheels were 19lbs each, 5.5lbs per wheel x 4 equals 22lbs having to rotate which would cause more power to me spent trying to just move the wheels..
QUOTE]
only 2 wheels have power going to them, at least on a prelude.
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Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (AzCivic1.6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AzCivic1.6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[QUOTE=MLBZ521]
But something like, well if the wheels were 19lbs each, 5.5lbs per wheel x 4 equals 22lbs having to rotate which would cause more power to me spent trying to just move the wheels..
QUOTE]
only 2 wheels have power going to them, at least on a prelude.</TD></TR></TABLE>
rear wheels aren't driven, but they're unsprung weight...
But something like, well if the wheels were 19lbs each, 5.5lbs per wheel x 4 equals 22lbs having to rotate which would cause more power to me spent trying to just move the wheels..
QUOTE]
only 2 wheels have power going to them, at least on a prelude.</TD></TR></TABLE>
rear wheels aren't driven, but they're unsprung weight...
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From: 12.88 at 106.89 N/A
Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (bad-monkey)
which is why you could have the rear on 44"tractor tires and still not notice a difference on a dyno, but you'd be slow as hell on the road.
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From: GA, United States of America
Well if you're looking for performance, then we all know, lighter car= faster car because it doesn't have to pull as much weight. YOu gotta start somewhere when shedding weight, even if it is 5.5 pounds on each wheel. If nothing else, you get better fuel mileage.
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Re: (preludedude94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but they're unsprung weight...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your wheels are unsprung weight. In order to improve handling you want your unsprung weight to be as light as possible to improve the how well your struts & springs are able to respond to the ground. Thus lighter wheels will not only improve acceleration, but general handling & traction.
I noticed a significant difference when I went from 23lb 18" wheels to 13.5lb 17" wheels.
Your wheels are unsprung weight. In order to improve handling you want your unsprung weight to be as light as possible to improve the how well your struts & springs are able to respond to the ground. Thus lighter wheels will not only improve acceleration, but general handling & traction.
I noticed a significant difference when I went from 23lb 18" wheels to 13.5lb 17" wheels.
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Re: (2lude4u)
i heard every pound of unsprung weight lost feels like 7 or 8 lbs of dead weight removed from the car. any truth to this?
if this is true going from 25 lb rims to 17 is 8 lbs X 4 for each wheel x 7 = 224 lb effective weight loss. that seems pretty substantial.
if this is true going from 25 lb rims to 17 is 8 lbs X 4 for each wheel x 7 = 224 lb effective weight loss. that seems pretty substantial.
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Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (bad-monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
rear wheels aren't driven, but they're unsprung weight...</TD></TR></TABLE>
right. and they're not gonna make as big a difference on acceleration as the driven wheels. there's no way a 10lb weight difference in the front wheels has the same effect as 10lb difference on the rear.
point being you cannot figure the weight difference of one wheel and times it by 4 to approximate some kind of gain or loss.
rear wheels aren't driven, but they're unsprung weight...</TD></TR></TABLE>
right. and they're not gonna make as big a difference on acceleration as the driven wheels. there's no way a 10lb weight difference in the front wheels has the same effect as 10lb difference on the rear.
point being you cannot figure the weight difference of one wheel and times it by 4 to approximate some kind of gain or loss.
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From: Off THE 60, Between THE 605 and THE 57
Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (AzCivic1.6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AzCivic1.6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
right. and they're not gonna make as big a difference on acceleration as the driven wheels. there's no way a 10lb weight difference in the front wheels has the same effect as 10lb difference on the rear.
point being you cannot figure the weight difference of one wheel and times it by 4 to approximate some kind of gain or loss.</TD></TR></TABLE>
which is a valid point if you're a line racer or a dyno queen.
but if you're hoofing around a track, 10 lbs of unsprung weight isn't a small amount.
don't get me wrong, it's not an earthshattering ton of weight, but it's not negligible.
i've heard the 8lbs of sprung = 1 lb of unsprung ratio myself. i think that in certain instances, the ratio holds true, but in a dynamic system there's no hard and fast rule.
however, if i had the choice of cutting 5 lbs of sprung weight or 5 lbs of unsprung, i'll take the 5 lbs of unsprung...duh
right. and they're not gonna make as big a difference on acceleration as the driven wheels. there's no way a 10lb weight difference in the front wheels has the same effect as 10lb difference on the rear.
point being you cannot figure the weight difference of one wheel and times it by 4 to approximate some kind of gain or loss.</TD></TR></TABLE>
which is a valid point if you're a line racer or a dyno queen.
but if you're hoofing around a track, 10 lbs of unsprung weight isn't a small amount.
don't get me wrong, it's not an earthshattering ton of weight, but it's not negligible.
i've heard the 8lbs of sprung = 1 lb of unsprung ratio myself. i think that in certain instances, the ratio holds true, but in a dynamic system there's no hard and fast rule.
however, if i had the choice of cutting 5 lbs of sprung weight or 5 lbs of unsprung, i'll take the 5 lbs of unsprung...duh
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Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (bad-monkey)
well he DID say:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by abercrombemonkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much would that be in a 1/4 mile etc? is it noticeable in accelleration?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by abercrombemonkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much would that be in a 1/4 mile etc? is it noticeable in accelleration?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Wheel Weight, Does it matter that much? (AzCivic1.6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AzCivic1.6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[QUOTE=MLBZ521]
But something like, well if the wheels were 19lbs each, 5.5lbs per wheel x 4 equals 22lbs having to rotate which would cause more power to me spent trying to just move the wheels..
QUOTE]
only 2 wheels have power going to them, at least on a prelude.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What??? My Prelude has all four wheels getting power, I dunno what you're talking about.
Yea yea yea... I know.. Didn't mean it to sound like that..
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGmikeH22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">everyone knows rear wheels dont rotate</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, those don't move.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGmikeH22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">which is why you could have the rear on 44"tractor tires and still not notice a difference on a dyno, but you'd be slow as hell on the road.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would think that would decrease your 1/4 mile times by a few tenths of a second wouldn't you?
Ah! It the broad picture the wheel size/weight/shape/blah blah, would make some kind of difference even if it was or was not noticable..
But something like, well if the wheels were 19lbs each, 5.5lbs per wheel x 4 equals 22lbs having to rotate which would cause more power to me spent trying to just move the wheels..
QUOTE]
only 2 wheels have power going to them, at least on a prelude.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What??? My Prelude has all four wheels getting power, I dunno what you're talking about.
Yea yea yea... I know.. Didn't mean it to sound like that..<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGmikeH22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">everyone knows rear wheels dont rotate</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, those don't move.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGmikeH22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">which is why you could have the rear on 44"tractor tires and still not notice a difference on a dyno, but you'd be slow as hell on the road.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would think that would decrease your 1/4 mile times by a few tenths of a second wouldn't you?
Ah! It the broad picture the wheel size/weight/shape/blah blah, would make some kind of difference even if it was or was not noticable..
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From: Annapolis, MD
Re: (abercrombemonkey)
SSR Competition, 17x8 @ tirerack.com
Not cheap but looks great, made VERY well (I'm a little SSR biased), and weighs almost nothing for a wheel that size.
Volks are even more expensive but you can get just about any wheel in the regular volk Racing series in gunmetal. CE28 is VERY light, as is the TE37.
Not cheap but looks great, made VERY well (I'm a little SSR biased), and weighs almost nothing for a wheel that size.
Volks are even more expensive but you can get just about any wheel in the regular volk Racing series in gunmetal. CE28 is VERY light, as is the TE37.
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I don't see how front vs. rear wheel weight would make a difference, especially in a straight line. When you're turning, the rear wheels take a shorter path than the fronts, but still, basically all four wheels take an equal amount of power to move.
Dan
Dan
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Re: (LudemanDan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudemanDan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't see how front vs. rear wheel weight would make a difference, especially in a straight line. When you're turning, the rear wheels take a shorter path than the fronts, but still, basically all four wheels take an equal amount of power to move.
Dan</TD></TR></TABLE>
the way I see it, in a straight line accel test, weight in the back wheels is pretty much the same as weight in the trunk, its just extra weight that doesn't want to move forward when at rest. in the front the extra weight doesn't want to move forward with the car AND doesn't want to be spun around in a circle by the engine.
Dan</TD></TR></TABLE>
the way I see it, in a straight line accel test, weight in the back wheels is pretty much the same as weight in the trunk, its just extra weight that doesn't want to move forward when at rest. in the front the extra weight doesn't want to move forward with the car AND doesn't want to be spun around in a circle by the engine.
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Re: (AzCivic1.6)
It's my intuition that in a straight line, the front matters just as much as the rear. The rear wheels are not the same as if they were just in the trunk since they are weight that weighs down AND needs to be spun at a similar speed to the fronts.