I've heard a lot of good things about owning a Ep3. One would be is that the K-Pro would serve as the best toy for an Ep to have. But what do you think are downsides? The popularity of the EK & EG overwhelming the EP? I hope this thread gets as far as 5 pages because of the overabundance of information for both good and bad reviews of an EP. Thanks in advance.

 

Bump!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dee A Nine Millimeter! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've heard a lot of good things about owning a Ep3. One would be is that the K-Pro would serve as the best toy for an Ep to have. But what do you think are downsides? The popularity of the EK & EG overwhelming the EP? I hope this thread gets as far as 5 pages because of the overabundance of information for both good and bad reviews of an EP. Thanks in advance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i love EP's.

had i not gotten an FG coupe i would be inside an EP.

i love the looks, its weird, every one hates it, but it has a soft spot in my heart.

the red line is a bit low but the k pro can help that. the engine is good for boost and the k series loves bolt ons. the seats are awsome and the shifter is sweet too.

its fun to drive, but if i had gotten one the first thing i would of done was drop it an inch or so, just for handling, nice rubber, some nicer rims, and a couple bolt ons, i/h/e k pro the whole deal.

i like the car, reccomend it to any one

 

don't get me wrong i love my car but, to get the best potiential out of it the swap is the best thing. mostly all of the internals are made for the a2. the style of the ep is what sets it apart from all the other hondas and i think thats why so many people are getting them now.


(this is my opinion)

 

yeah, i've heard that swapping an a2 would dessimate a lot of competition... i also heard that simply swapping cams, the ep can keep up with a stock EVO...

 

i dont know about keeping up with a stock EVO, but there is one guy doing a lot of R&D with cam set ups, and making pretty decent power. the A3 is a good motor on boost, and the EP3 w/ n RSX-S (k20A2) swap is an awsome all around preformer. ( I have one, and its ******* awsome!!)
http://www.ephatch.com or http://www.clubrsx.xom for some great EP3 and K motor info
Hank

 

I have had my ep for a year now and this is what I think. They for sure need a suspension upgrade, I put on the HFP non-adjustable coilovers and this made a huge difference, I think getting a thicker rear sway and better tires will made this car handle like a dream. The car is not underpowered with the a3! It just doesnt have as much power as a lot of us would like. If you elect to keep the a3, you have a great engine for FI, Jackson has a supercharger setup making about 225 whp, with k-pro/i/h/e. Good power for the money. I am thinking about doing a swap to an a2 myself, go with i/h/e/k-pro/cams the a2 will put down something like 230 whp, more than enough for me as a DD.

Those are really the only two faults I can find with this car, upgrade the suspension and you may want more "go juice." I personally like hatches and wagons so I wanted to get this Si before they went back to a coupe. I also waited for the later year cars to make sure all the bugs were worked out. I have not had any issues with the tranny or anything else yet, knock on wood. I love the overall styling or the car and interior is a home run.

As far as overall popularity, I already think the ep3 is getting more popular now that no more are being built, jut like the eg and ek did before. Nothing makes you want something like not being able to get it. There is also more and more aftermarket support for this car. When I first thought about this car several years there wasnt nearly as much high quality "stuff" out in the market as there is now.

I hope this helps with your decision. If you are looking for the last of the new '05's I have a buddy who is a Honda sales manager here in Lexington. As of last week he still had one left and wanted to just get rid of it. If this interest you PM and I will give you his cell.

 

The EP3's bad rep started because the sticker was $19,500 for a 160 HP car. In 2002 there were better performing cars available for the price, and by 2005 there were quite a few.

I don't know why they insisted on keeping the sticker where it was, because most of the dealers were deeply discounting by the end of 2002, and Honda would've sold a lot more of them if they were a little cheaper.

Already with a bad reputation because of the perception that it wasn't enough HP for the money, the death knell was struck when the usual N series JDM competitors and favourite sons pronounced the suspensions of the DC5 and EP3 unworkable in their kind of competition.

This was probably an exaggeration, but since the CL7 was available to them, they moved in that direction and suddenly the EP3 was disappearing from the JDM endurance racing scene where Honda has always shown off its best performing cars.

Every once in a while a car will have a quirky attribute that wasn't properly market researched, and that can hurt. In this case, it was the "rally shifter" on the console. Even people otherwise inclined to buy an EP3 were just turned off by that and ended up with another car.

I paid $15,995 for my EP3 in December of 20002.

For that money it was and still is a wonderful little car that performs well with a remarkably torquey motor that seems to have surprising power in all gears at all RPM (considering), and seems to get 30 miles per gallon no matter what.

If you actually go under the car, you will notice that the front struts are huge and heavy, in part because of the tie rod connector, and you'll say out loud, "Wow, that's dumb."

If you actually try to autocross the car, you'll manage to defeat the EPS on your first lap and you'll say, "Wow, they should have thought about that."

There are also manoeuvres you can do on track with the EP3 that will occasionally cause the computer to try to stabilize the car when you're not ready for it. This might cause the car to try to drive straight off toward the right while you're actually trying to trail brake to the left...you get used to this and compensate.

Overall, though, in your typical panic stop the ABS works great.

Overall, though, the EPS is a very neat idea and works just fine.

Overall, though, the suspension is fine, especially if you buy the Mugen SS or Honda HFP suspension for it...and maybe think about the DC5 ITR rear sway.

My car is at 76,000 miles now and not a single moment's trouble.

As an old guy's $16,000 utility car, it's wonderful.

As a younger person's first performance oriented car that won't kill anybody, it's also just fine.

It's a strange, quirky little car that ended up making a name for itself as one of the least popular cars Honda has ever tried to sell in the USDM.

I'm hanging onto mine just a while longer.

 

Wow that definitely helped out a lot. And yeah giff74, I heard swapping the a2 would be nearly the best swap that you can do for the EP... but keeping an a3 and setting it up for FI is also the next best thing for an EP. Oh, about this whole K-Pro business, I definitely love the idea of adding bolt-ons and using the K-Pro to tune it get more HP for your buck. George Knighton, I can see where you're going when you said it's popularity could have been better if the price wasn't so high for such a semi-low HP car. And EPS, that's new to me; hopefully I'll get familiar with this and like as you said, you learn it's function and compensate when driving. Giff74, damn, if only you were in CA I'd definitely get ahold of you. Hankish, overall how was the a2 swap? Was it more expensive than you thought? What was your budget for the swap and how long did your swap take? My bad if I'm asking a bit more questions. I just feel obliged to get to know about the EP than I already know now from my friends. I want to know what they're talking about while owning an EP.

 

The A2 swap is vey straight forward, and can be done by anyone with basic automotive knowledge, the right tools and 2 good shop manuals SI and RSX).
I have seen RSX-S swaps run for as little as $2900 but expect to pay about $3000-$3500 for a low milage complete swap.
I have d2 coilovers, Neuspeed X brace, progress rear sway bar, upper strut bars and sticky 17 in wheels and the car handles AWSOME!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hankish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have seen RSX-S swaps run for as little as $2900 but expect to pay about $3000-$3500 for a low milage complete swap. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Including tranny?

That would be "complete" to me -- it's not much faster than an A3 if it's running on a 5-speed.

 

yeah complete including long block, trans, ECU, axles, and harness...
or you could get CRV long block from http://www.clubrsx.com for $1300 shipped with under 10 miles (search, but the guy is ligit, and has a few that were wrecked) get a complete RSX S hed for about $1000, K-Pro for about $900 and use your 5 speed and make more power and TQ than the type s for about the same $$ if you can do the head swap your self. (again, a pretty straight forward task).
These stock bottom end-ed 2.4 K24's with a stock Type S head are making over 220 HP and over 180 TQ (!!!!!!) to the wheels with just I/H/E and K pro tuning!
The RSX 6 speed trans is great, but the EP's 5 speed will be just fine with the TQ these hybrid motors are making...

These motors are FU%$in' monsters in an EP3..
They are also a much lower Turbo friendly compression ratio than the RSX S (11.0:1 VS. about 9.8 I believe) That is if there N/A power is just not enough for ya

But if you just want to swap a better set upthan the stock motor, add some bolt on's and be done with it/ happy, the type S swap is awsome!

(The type R K20a is even more AWSOME swap, but much more $$$. Most are around $5,500 for a complete swap. You do get an even tighter 6 speed trans than the Type S, LSD, and better cams, so the $2,000 difference is not as bad as it sounds.)
I hope this helped point you in the right direction more than opened a big can of K series worms.....
LOL
Hank

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hankish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(The type R K20a is even more AWSOME swap....You do get an ..., LSD, ....</TD></TR></TABLE>

The EP3 CTR and DC5 ITR would not have autmatically had a Torsen axle in every market in which they were sold. It was, in fact, optional in most markets.

So be careful if you think you're getting one if it's not specifically mentioned.

 

With all this, i'm starting to fall head over heels on the EP's hidden capabilities....

 

The EP3 is the poor man's DC5.

down side? its a honda, not an acura.

its 40hp short of the a2. its still a civic. which makes it torqueless and underpowered and a money-pit from the start to go fast. no street-respect, cuz its still "a civic".
after you swap a2 into it, you might as well picked up a use TypeS with LSD, 6spd, leather.

or if you really liek Auto-X...like some ppl prefer FWD...go buy a cheap $3000 EG hatch and put the A2 in that! then you'll be happy.


however, if u can wait, i'd wait for the 06 Civic SI. 6spd, LSD, Navi, 197HP i-VTEC... this civic is finally up-to-par. sure it may be all hype. just turbo it later and you'll be happy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by l337hxr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
down side? its a honda, not an acura.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How is that a down side?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... its still a civic. which makes it torqueless ....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm really surprised you said that. It's really pretty torquey compared to other four cylinder cars of around the same HP. Whatever you think of the K20A3's iVTEC and how it's different from the K20A2's iVTEC, the fact remains that it does allow the computer and motor to enhance torque at all speeds in all gears.

I dunno...I never saw a lack of torque in that particular motor as any problem at all. Actually, people who've driven my EP3 have commented on the available torque.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... it, you might as well picked up a use TypeS with LSD, 6spd, leather. </TD></TR></TABLE>
There's no LSD in the USDM EP3 or USDM DC5 unless the owner put it in.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...or if you really liek Auto-X...like some ppl prefer FWD...go buy a cheap $3000 EG hatch and put the A2 in that! then you'll be happy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Happy...and poor.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">however, if u can wait, i'd wait for the 06 Civic SI. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think the original poster and most of the respondents are after spending that kind of money. It's not so hard to find a good USDM EP3 for under $10,000.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It's really pretty torquey compared to other four cylinder cars of around the same HP. Whatever you think of the K20A3's iVTEC and how it's different from the K20A2's iVTEC, the fact remains that it does allow the computer and motor to enhance torque at all speeds in all gears.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Heck, the A3 is pretty torquey compared to the A2 --

A couple years ago when I was really checking out what Hondata had to offer, I Photoshopped all of their dyno graphs for the K20-series motors, and was completely surprised that the A3 had a stronger torque curve than the A2 -- all the way up to about 5500-5600 RPM. The extra power of the A2 is purely from the high-lift cam and higher revs; otherwise the A3's practically got it beat.

I've been weighing my engine options for quite a while, trust me. It really depends on what I can afford; I may just do K-Pro and a 6-speed and be done.

 

Wait, so the a3 is capable of having the Type-S's 6-speed tranny?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dee A Nine Millimeter! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wait, so the a3 is capable of having the Type-S's 6-speed tranny?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe so... well, I'm pretty sure, anyway. I think that adding the A2's cast aluminum oil pan would help, too, because I think it bolts up to the tranny for extra rigidity.

Or, the internals of the A3's transmission could be swapped around with other parts to create a 6-speed, too. I'd plan on the same ratios as the FG2 Si's transmission -- same as the 05-06 RSX-S but with the TSX 6th gear instead.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BarracksSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe so... well, I'm pretty sure, anyway. I think that adding the A2's cast aluminum oil pan would help, too, because I think it bolts up to the tranny for extra rigidity.

Or, the internals of the A3's transmission could be swapped around with other parts to create a 6-speed, too. I'd plan on the same ratios as the FG2 Si's transmission -- same as the 05-06 RSX-S but with the TSX 6th gear instead.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Barracks you have done such a great job putting your car together in a tasteful, functional way and now you want to go wacky building frankenstein trannys? I dont get it bro??

Why not just buy the a2 swap you want and hook up your Mugen mobile!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BarracksSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe so... well, I'm pretty sure, anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you can use the six speed from a DC5 in the EP3 even with the A3 motor. The six speed from the CL7 will not fit in the space, however.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or, the internals of the A3's transmission could be swapped around with other parts to create a 6-speed, too.</TD></TR></TABLE>
User "Nikos" was the first person I ever heard do this. If you need a tutorial, think about checking with him.

 

Wowwww, damn that's insane.

 

look at the can of EP worms you opened up!
I told ya there were plenty of things to love about these cars...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hankish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">look at the can of EP worms you opened up!
I told ya there were plenty of things to love about these cars...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

*cheesy smile*

 

Gear Ratios for the RSX Type S six speed. These are the same gear ratios that were installed in the EP3 CTR when it was originally introduced.
1 : 3.266:1
2 : 2.130:1
3 : 1.517:1
4 : 1.147:1
5 : 0.921:1
6 : 0.738:1

Gear ratios for the USDM Civic EP3 Si.
1st: 3.062
2nd: 1.769
3rd: 1.212
4th: 0.921
5th: 0.738

You can see that with the USDM EP3 transmission that there will be a drop in RPM between 3 and 4 that might be power robbing on the track. The K20A3's torque saves it but the K20A2's relative lack of torque at the involved RPM might make the five speed less than the ideal solution.

The gear ratios are further mitigated by the fact that the USDM EP3 has the CTR/ITR axle ratio (about 4.8) while the USDM RSX has a different axle ratio (around 4.4).

It seems to me that if you're doing a performance oriented transmission for your conversion, you'd want the USDM EP3 ring gears (4.8) <u>and</u> UK or Euro Torsen axle installed in an RSX Type S six speed transmission.

Interestingly, it looks like the last two years of RSX Type S <u>do</u> have the USDM EP3 axle ratio in combination with the six speed!

Here's Niko's complete writeup about putting six gears into the regular EP3 five speed housing: http://hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0507ht_trans/