The insides of the two front tires look like the pic I took below. Below that is my drop, which isn't severe at all. Does the wear look like it came from camber or from alignment?

 

That to me looks like a toe problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisw85 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That to me looks like a toe problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree. Get your alignment checked

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree. Get your alignment checked </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

What would it look like if it was a negative camber problem. My old tires ended up looking like that and I just assumed it was because I had yet to install a camber kit after lowering my car.

 

its a CAMBER problem. 100% sure. if tires wear out faster than you think then its a toe problem

 

How long have they been on the car? If they have been on for a short period and they look like that, then it is a toe issue. If they have been on the car for 30,000 miles, then you need to start rotating them to keep the wear even at least and get a camber kit. You need an alignment either way. It looks to be a toe issue more so than camber issue from what I can tell in the pictures.


I do alignments everyday, so im pretty sure on this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phatrick2332 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It looks to be a toe issue more so than camber issue from what I can tell in the pictures.


I do alignments everyday, so im pretty sure on this. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So by looking at tire wear how can you tell the difference?

 

If your toe is off it will eat tires very rapidly on either the inner or outer edge depending if its toe'd in or toe'd out. If this happens, the rest of the tire will look to be in very good shape and have alot of tread life left, but be burnt up on the edges. If its a camber issue, generally the tires will show signs of many miles driven on them along with the edges worn away.

Also with a toe issue, you can get excessive run out and choppyness on the edge of the tire. It will feel as if one tread block is raised, and the next tread block is lower and continue all the way around in the pattern on the edge of the tire.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisw85 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That to me looks like a toe problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeap

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phatrick2332 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your toe is off it will eat tires very rapidly on either the inner or outer edge depending if its toe'd in or toe'd out. If this happens, the rest of the tire will look to be in very good shape and have alot of tread life left, but be burnt up on the edges. If its a camber issue, generally the tires will show signs of many miles driven on them along with the edges worn away.

Also with a toe issue, you can get excessive run out and choppyness on the edge of the tire. It will feel as if one tread block is raised, and the next tread block is lower and continue all the way around in the pattern on the edge of the tire.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks. Good to know.

 

most likely a combination of toe and camber

camber gives you uneven wear
toe accelerates tire wear

put the 2 together = accelerated uneven wear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ronald55555 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most likely a combination of toe and camber

camber gives you uneven wear
toe accelerates tire wear

put the 2 together = accelerated uneven wear.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Out of spec toe is what wears the inside of tires due to the scrub angle as you drive down the street; even if the camber is set to 0. With camber, you just increase the rate of wear, because the more camber that you add, the more sensitive your tires will be to toe. You need to have a damn lot of camber to wear the inside of the tires when toe is set to 0.

 

i think you got it backwards. toe increases the rate of wear, but it will not wear down the entire inside edge like that. If there's 0 camber and crazy toe, the tire will wear very fast, but still even, and will not be like the tire show in the pic, BUT, you will get feathering on the treads on either side depending on if it's toed out or in.

you are right that excessive camber w/ 0 toe will not wear the tire that fast, but overtime it will still look like the tire posted, it just doesnt wear it down as fast as if the toe is off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ronald55555 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think you got it backwards. toe increases the rate of wear, but it will not wear down the entire inside edge like that. If there's 0 camber and crazy toe, the tire will wear very fast, but still even, and will not be like the tire show in the pic, BUT, you will get feathering on the treads on either side depending on if it's toed out or in.

you are right that excessive camber w/ 0 toe will not wear the tire that fast, but overtime it will still look like the tire posted, it just doesnt wear it down as fast as if the toe is off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In my experance toe in (from lowering) causes this inside wear problem. Even with camber that is in spec

 

Both. Get an alignment and fix em.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ronald55555 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think you got it backwards. toe increases the rate of wear, but it will not wear down the entire inside edge like that. If there's 0 camber and crazy toe, the tire will wear very fast, but still even, and will not be like the tire show in the pic, BUT, you will get feathering on the treads on either side depending on if it's toed out or in.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, if camber was 0, the tire would still wear, but it wouldn't necesarily be in that one spot (but the inside may still wear more due to cornering effects). The point is that it's the toe causing the wear, and just happens to be wearing the inside because of camber; but the tires would still wear improperly without the camber due to toe.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ronald55555 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you are right that excessive camber w/ 0 toe will not wear the tire that fast, but overtime it will still look like the tire posted, it just doesnt wear it down as fast as if the toe is off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's not true. I'm running so much camber, that it's actually visible just looking at the car, and I have no uneven wear at all. It is much more sensitive to toe now, though, so I have to be careful to get it as close to 0 as possible when I make any suspension changes.

 

what is the best place to get an alignment at for lowered cars with out camber kits. There sears and Firestone that i know of. So it's best to have the toe in the front and rear set at 0? I know the front of my car will have negative camber but the back i can fix with washers. How much negative camber should i have in the back with 0 toe? I added the washers already but i think it might have 0 or positive camber now just by the looks.

 

How low is your car? Camber shouldn't matter at all. You should be able to bring it in anywhere, and ask them for a 4 wheel alignment with the toe set to 0. Get printouts before and after to make sure it was done properly.

 

The car is pretty low. Does having a harder compound tire help slow down the tire wear?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by realis9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The car is pretty low. Does having a harder compound tire help slow down the tire wear? </TD></TR></TABLE>

You need to fix the underlying problem, not compensate for it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoXer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, if camber was 0, the tire would still wear, but it wouldn't necesarily be in that one spot (but the inside may still wear more due to cornering effects). The point is that it's the toe causing the wear, and just happens to be wearing the inside because of camber; but the tires would still wear improperly without the camber due to toe.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think we're saying pretty much the same thing but just wording it differently.
improper toe - fast wearing, feathering of treads
improper camber - uneven wear, inside or outside edge

put the 2 together = fast wearing of inside/outside edge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoXer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That's not true. I'm running so much camber, that it's actually visible just looking at the car, and I have no uneven wear at all. It is much more sensitive to toe now, though, so I have to be careful to get it as close to 0 as possible when I make any suspension changes.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

key words of my original post are "excessive camber" and "over time". but i guess a more appropriate term would be "improper camber".
what i mean is, 3 degrees on an autox car with soft springs is definitely not excessive, but 3 degrees on a highway/city driven car is way excessive(unless driven like a maniac )
bad camber w/ correct toe will still wear the inner/outer edge OVER TIME, but is not anything to worry about. bad toe just speeds up the process

 

So will a camber kit correct camber and toe problems or just camber problems?

 

Once you get a camber kit go to an alignment shop and they will fix both for you.

 

how much negative camber is bad without the use of a camber kit? What i mean is the more negative camber i have the more the tire will wear on the inside keeping the toe at 0. So what i'm trying to find out is how much negative can i go safely without running into too much excessive inner tire wear keeping the toe at 0