I don't think taking awd cars out of Power Street is a good idea. The class already struggles on attendance anyway. Leave the awd cars on a normal radial and let the fwd's run a DOT approved bias-ply, I.E. an ET Street or Hoosier QTP. That should get the fwd guys down around the mid 10's. I could see that bringing alot more fwd guys into the class too.

Turbo 4, in my opinion needs to stay exactly how it is for now. Sure Mike, Bill, Sean, and myself have run like ONE 9.3-9.4 pass to date, but we havent one a g-damn thing yet. Hell I dont think any of us have even made a final round yet. At least let one of us win a race before slowing us down first. Radials are just gonna cause wheel hop and more attrition for us, something the fans already see enough of.

 

I do see your point but if the DSM's would hold together they would win turbo4 everyweek. fact is that some DSM's are totally competitive in turbo 4. if they do stay in power street I think the FWD guys should be allowed to use a Bias Ply tire and possibly a bottle.

ohh yeah to you guys at norwalk you are a class act for sure

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AMS Eric #2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think taking awd cars out of Power Street is a good idea. The class already struggles on attendance anyway. Leave the awd cars on a normal radial and let the fwd's run a DOT approved bias-ply, I.E. an ET Street or Hoosier QTP. That should get the fwd guys down around the mid 10's. I could see that bringing alot more fwd guys into the class too. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AMS Eric #2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think taking awd cars out of Power Street is a good idea. The class already struggles on attendance anyway. Leave the awd cars on a normal radial and let the fwd's run a DOT approved bias-ply, I.E. an ET Street or Hoosier QTP. That should get the fwd guys down around the mid 10's. I could see that bringing alot more fwd guys into the class too.

Turbo 4, in my opinion needs to stay exactly how it is for now. Sure Mike, Bill, Sean, and myself have run like ONE 9.3-9.4 pass to date, but we havent one a g-damn thing yet. Hell I dont think any of us have even made a final round yet. At least let one of us win a race before slowing us down first. Radials are just gonna cause wheel hop and more attrition for us, something the fans already see enough of. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with you totally. The class (T4) still has so much more potential. Yes you guys ran killer times but if you think about it no one has won a race yet. I can see if you guys were winning every race then it might be an issuse, but as of right now I say leave you guys in the class. I am all for it. If it becomes a domination then make a rule.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AMS Eric #2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think taking awd cars out of Power Street is a good idea. The class already struggles on attendance anyway. Leave the awd cars on a normal radial and let the fwd's run a DOT approved bias-ply, I.E. an ET Street or Hoosier QTP. That should get the fwd guys down around the mid 10's. I could see that bringing alot more fwd guys into the class too.

Turbo 4, in my opinion needs to stay exactly how it is for now. Sure Mike, Bill, Sean, and myself have run like ONE 9.3-9.4 pass to date, but we havent one a g-damn thing yet. Hell I dont think any of us have even made a final round yet. At least let one of us win a race before slowing us down first. Radials are just gonna cause wheel hop and more attrition for us, something the fans already see enough of. </TD></TR></TABLE>

good thinkin

 

I like the classes the way they are as well. Just cause some DSM's are running fast doesn't make all of us want rule changes. congrat's on the fast passes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like the classes the way they are as well. Just cause some DSM's are running fast doesn't make all of us want rule changes. congrat's on the fast passes.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh **** look who's back!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like the classes the way they are as well. Just cause some DSM's are running fast doesn't make all of us want rule changes. congrat's on the fast passes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree and was super impressed by all the cars in power street at norwalk, but lets face the facts. a FWD isn't goin to hit 10.3-10.5 on BFG's

 

I don't see why everyone gets so worried when a couple of DSM's come out one time and run good times, you guys are forgetting that they have to go through tons of t4 guys that go to every event cutting .50 lights like Brian and Matt .They will turn those 9.3 9.4's into 9.70's which would be a good race. power street is a another story not sure what to do there.

Chris Green

 

THere definitely needs to be changes in the p/s class. A tire rule change is all that will be needed though.

 

$50,000 invested in dsm &gt; $6500 invested in fwd honda

money usually wins the race, i would like to see the fwds use a mt

what kind of numbers do people get with this tire? i have no idea, is it like a slick

like 1.5-1.6 60'? for that case the 330' slicks knock down the 330 like .5-.8 tenths

there is ur 10 sec pass,

 

I would like to see a couple things changed... To me, I dont think considering a motor swap a power adder is fair... Think about it, what Honda that competes DOESNT have a motor swap??? We werent blessed with 2.0L DOHC Cast Iron bottom end motors from the factory, so it should be acceptable to have a swap and have it NOT be considered a power adder... This is within reason of course... I do agree with that the motor must be from the original manufacture, and it shouldnt require any type of chassis modification to swap in... Such as like a V6 NSX swap into a civic or something... As long as its within reason, it should be accepted, and not counted as a power adder...

ALSO, I like the idea of allowing more tires for us FWD guys... Yes, there are some people that have run some great times on radials, look at Jim Hucks. BUT, there are some of us that just can not do it given the selection we have to work with (Nittos that are practically all discontinued, and the BFGs that are very limited... I believe that just changing the rules to only limit tires to anything DOT approved would be fair... The M&H DOT tires for example, have already been proven to be awesome tires, and are still a DOT approved radial... I think just making these small changes would bring alot more interest and alot more competition to the field for next season, and also make it a bit more fair...

There are some of us, myself included, that would love to compete in a class like Power Street, but just cant do it with the tire limitations... And I see it pointless to run in T4, considering the number of cars breaking the single digits... In order for these classes to be succesful and continue to grow, I feel there need to be some changes like these made to keep it competitive, and keep the interest... Im sure the NDRA would see the benefits of making these changes after just some short time...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would like to see a couple things changed... To me, I dont think considering a motor swap a power adder is fair... Think about it, what Honda that competes DOESNT have a motor swap??? We werent blessed with 2.0L DOHC Cast Iron bottom end motors from the factory, so it should be acceptable to have a swap and have it NOT be considered a power adder... This is within reason of course... I do agree with that the motor must be from the original manufacture, and it shouldnt require any type of chassis modification to swap in... Such as like a V6 NSX swap into a civic or something... As long as its within reason, it should be accepted, and not counted as a power adder...

ALSO, I like the idea of allowing more tires for us FWD guys... Yes, there are some people that have run some great times on radials, look at Jim Hucks. BUT, there are some of us that just can not do it given the selection we have to work with (Nittos that are practically all discontinued, and the BFGs that are very limited... I believe that just changing the rules to only limit tires to anything DOT approved would be fair... The M&H DOT tires for example, have already been proven to be awesome tires, and are still a DOT approved radial... I think just making these small changes would bring alot more interest and alot more competition to the field for next season, and also make it a bit more fair...

There are some of us, myself included, that would love to compete in a class like Power Street, but just cant do it with the tire limitations... And I see it pointless to run in T4, considering the number of cars breaking the single digits... In order for these classes to be succesful and continue to grow, I feel there need to be some changes like these made to keep it competitive, and keep the interest... Im sure the NDRA would see the benefits of making these changes after just some short time... </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To me, I dont think considering a motor swap a power adder is fair... Think about it, what Honda that competes DOESNT have a motor swap??? We werent blessed with 2.0L DOHC Cast Iron bottom end motors from the factory, so it should be acceptable to have a swap and have it NOT be considered a power adder </TD></TR></TABLE>

On the flipside of that. Why is it our problem that you picked a a half assed base platform to build a race car out of.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AMS Eric #2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sure Mike, Bill, Sean, and myself have run like ONE 9.3-9.4 pass to date, but we havent one a g-damn thing yet. Hell I dont think any of us have even made a final round yet. At least let one of us win a race before slowing us down first. Radials are just gonna cause wheel hop and more attrition for us, something the fans already see enough of. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sean Ivey made the finals at the ATCO event, but he didn't win, so I don't know why there's talk of a rule change for the AWD cars when they have won anything.

 

For Turbo4 I cannot see why you would change rules when the same set of guys wins it every time. If you want to change something, put 300lb, and add .2 to Brian and Matt's reaction time so we have a chance :-)

Seriously though, I am not the guy making the rules, but if there were a rule change to be made I would think it would be in order to increase parity. Penalizing the losers in the mitsubishis when they cannot even complete a race would be counter to achieving that goal of parity.

And seriously, are you going to worry about a guy that runs 9.2 and cannot even make it past first round, and in the first round when he breaks it's with a .3xx reaction. Go back and look at the results, it's all there by the #s.


Sean




Modified by IVEY at 5:28 PM 10/21/2005

 

Yea, noone penalized Brian and Jason when they completely wrecked shop in 2004.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ron@smp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

On the flipside of that. Why is it our problem that you picked a a half assed base platform to build a race car out of.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

the idea of the power street class is to compete and being affordable, i am a full time student and i can barly afford my 800 dollar civic, i cant even walk in the dealership and look at a used/wrecked evo. I dont think we should get rid of awd. just let the fwd use something more sticky, something like a 1.7 vs a 1.9 60' alot in the end

-poor white kid civic owner

 

money invested into a platform is the owners problem. no one said with a 2000 dollar turbo kit your car will have a shot. I don't think the gripe is about money. I think it is just evening the playing feild. I know of the evo's at norwalk I was next too most pulled 1.5-1.7 60ft's to my best of 1.8 I think with a bias ply tire it would even the field.

I love the fact that we ALMOST had a full 16 car field at norwalk. I talked to a few friends today that want to race the class if their are some tire changes. I think we can get a 16 car field at a lot of events next year with a rule change

 

If I was allowed to run a bias ply tire, such as the M&H DOT, I would compete in Power Street with my 4 door, and run my coupe in T4. This would be most fair to me, as oppose to having to run both a daily driven street car, and a race car in the same class, where in actuality only ONE would be competitive... Almost think its pointless for me to run my 4 door in T4, just seeing guys such as John Ferguson and Brian Ballard and the like, who I would be up against...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ron@smp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On the flipside of that. Why is it our problem that you picked a a half assed base platform to build a race car out of. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Race car??? Its actually my daily driver/ grocery getter

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedCivicSedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Race car??? Its actually my daily driver/ grocery getter </TD></TR></TABLE>


the power adder thing isn't really a big deal because it has been proven that honda's can go into 10's without trouble with only a turbo set up

 

Sounds like another Honda class in the Making, how about Nopi changes all classes to totally favor the Hondas, and then when there is still no 16 car fields they send all Honda owners a bill. Seriously if they make a tire change and the DSM still comes out and do well what are you going to want next nitrous? We can't even get full fields and you want to alienate the only other class of car that regularly shows up. There used to be a ton of DSM's that ran T4 and got destroyed by brain and Jason so we stopped going to events, then comes a class that we may have a chance in, and because some dsm's showed up at one race its like the whole class is suddenly ruined. If they make a tire change they should make a min weight 2500Lbs for using those tires. Hey if you got to add weight you got to add weight CRX guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Corey G &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like another Honda class in the Making, how about Nopi changes all classes to totally favor the Hondas, and then when there is still no 16 car fields they send all Honda owners a bill. Seriously if they make a tire change and the DSM still comes out and do well what are you going to want next nitrous? We can't even get full fields and you want to alienate the only other class of car that regularly shows up. There used to be a ton of DSM's that ran T4 and got destroyed by brain and Jason so we stopped going to events, then comes a class that we may have a chance in, and because some dsm's showed up at one race its like the whole class is suddenly ruined. If they make a tire change they should make a min weight 2500Lbs for using those tires. Hey if you got to add weight you got to add weight CRX guys.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I will totally agree with you on a lot of your points, but there are some things that could be argued.

do I think that CRX's should have a weight penalty? yes simply because the way the class rules are we could never get an integra even close to the weight of the CRX.

Nitrous could be an option but really it won't help us that much as it will just create more traction issues.

as for the DSM's showing up. sorry that makes me laugh. I know a lot of DSM's that go to the DSM shootout won't ever pass tech at a real event. many DSM owners build their cars to compete at the shootout that is it and that is all. sorry but bolt in cages, no helmets, no driveshaft hoops, etc don't cut it at real events.


also what you are saying is that Jason and Brian clean house and you can complain, but we can't when 4 EVO's show up on all seasons and run over a second faster than the fastest FWD car in the class at the event?

No one is saying get rid of the DSM's unless there is more of a turn out or there is no way to make it close racing. in turbo 4 the DSM's have a shot at every event but can't cut lights or break. that is not a matter of a competitive car it comes down to driver and parts reliablity. I mean come on Mike R. is far from under powered. In power street we are under powered and out 60fted by .4 we have no chance at all. yeah we could make more power but then we would just spin.

if we could just get the FWD's on tires that cut the 60ft to consistant 1.7's we could make the power topend to catch up. so just let us run bias plys as long as they are DOT's and see what happens the first half of next season

 

I have raced the class (Power Street) for 2 years now and I really dont think anything needs to be done as of right now. If the AWD come out and completely dominate next year and are running much faster I may change my opinion. As for adding weight to the CRX I think that would be BS since no other NDRA Sportsman class has to hit the scales why should we. If I were forced to add weight then I would take full advantage of that and put it up front where it would help me the most on the short track.

Personally I believe that my car could run in the 10.6's with some more work but that would have to be a well preped track. Is that good enough to take out the AWD, hell no but they better cut a good light and not mess up because I will be right there with some MPH if they do.

And for the Honda guys just work on your reaction times and think about your setup and what you can do to get another tenth because I know I will have to.


Modified by B20T CRX at 8:11 PM 10/21/2005