I got a new header, and I had to remove this brace to get it on there:




Can I just leave it off of there? The motor should make 250-270 WHP and I run it at autocross and road course events, so I don't want to leave any necessary parts off of it, but it just won't fit with the new header.

There's a bit of clearance in there:



I'm thinking I could grind the end of it down a bit, then countersink the hole and use an Allen-head bolt to secure it, but I'd probably lose some of the structural integrity of the brace, although it may be better than not having it on there.

I asked the guy who made the header, and he said that custom headers don't fit on there with that brace in place and I should leave it off, but it looks like the piece would fit fine if the lower pipes were moved a bit towards the drivers side.

Anyone race their cars with this brace missing?

Anyone have a custom 4-1 header that fits with this piece?

 

I've never heard of issues without it.

 

throw that thing in the trash.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smokin rubber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">throw that thing in the trash.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then why did the manufacturer design it, build it and place it in the car? You would think if its not doing anything it would not be there in the first place.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HapaHaole &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've never heard of issues without it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Neither have I but if you can fit it in there with a little grinding it would not hurt to have it on there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Then why did the manufacturer design it, build it and place it in the car? You would think if its not doing anything it would not be there in the first place.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, that's my thinking as well. However, the transmission is pretty well attached to the block without that piece, and Honda has been known to over-do things, so it makes me wonder...

 

Agree

 

Throw it away along with the Intake manifold braces..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Throw it away along with the Intake manifold braces.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No intake manifold

 

OH! he got you

 

You should also cover your timing belt... I saw a guy loose a race and blew his engine because a small rock get in the wrong place....

Its up to you.

I would also try to keep this brace in place or modify it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yellowturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should also cover your timing belt... I saw a guy loose a race and blew his engine because a small rock get in the wrong place....

Its up to you.

I would also try to keep this brace in place or modify it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, I've seen that happen with a screw. This motor is brand new, just got it broken in and haven't made it to an event since I put it in. We're still tuning it and hopefully I'll have all the covers modified to fit on the taller deck and around the Hall Effect pickup before I get to the HPDE/Time Trials at Rockingham in a couple of weeks.

I'll probably try to modify the brace and get it back on there also, there's just so much stuff to do to get the car ready in the next couple of weeks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Weston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, that's my thinking as well. However, the transmission is pretty well attached to the block without that piece, and Honda has been known to over-do things, so it makes me wonder...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I tend to agree, and I'd suggest that you leave it off if you were making close to stock HP....but in your case, I'd error on the side of caution and modify the bracket to make it fit.

I've noticed that on B series motors, the design of that bracket gets a little bigger as the stock output increases. On the type R, the bracket is a large alum casting that's held in place with (6) bolts. That's a lot of design effort and material cost for something that doesn't 'do anything'. Makes me wonder too!

 

I'd hack it to make it fit.
I hacked up the ITR brace to fit with a Hytech header...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks, I've seen that happen with a screw. This motor is brand new, just got it broken in and haven't made it to an event since I put it in. We're still tuning it and hopefully I'll have all the covers modified to fit on the taller deck and around the Hall Effect pickup before I get to the HPDE/Time Trials at Rockingham in a couple of weeks.

I'll probably try to modify the brace and get it back on there also, there's just so much stuff to do to get the car ready in the next couple of weeks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Out of curiosity, what are you using the Hall Effect sensor for? Crank position? Engine speed?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Then why did the manufacturer design it, build it and place it in the car? You would think if its not doing anything it would not be there in the first place.</TD></TR></TABLE>

honda also designed the car to drive to and from work for 100 million miles, by someone who doesn't even know the hood opens...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Out of curiosity, what are you using the Hall Effect sensor for? Crank position? Engine speed?</TD></TR></TABLE>

All of the above, it reads 13 magnets embedded in the exhaust cam gear to supply two different signals to the AEM EMS to run the ignition. If you look at the other end of the intake cam you'll see that I don't have a distributor to provide the signals.

 

Thanks for those pics DavidR, I didn't realize the ITR had a humongous brace on it like that. That tends to make me think it actually serves some significant purpose.

 

Actually, to my understanding it's to allow the engine to "stand" on it's own with the tranny disconnected. If you've ever had the engine sitting on the floor, that little guy makes it stable. The ITR one is another story of course.

Edit: As further evidence/suggestion for that idea, the Honda motorcycle engines have these prongs cast into the block specifically for support when the engine is pulled out of the frame of the bike. They serve absolutely no other purpose.


Modified by sscguy at 2:55 AM 10/22/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, to my understanding it's to allow the engine to "stand" on it's own with the tranny disconnected. If you've ever had the engine sitting on the floor, that little guy makes it stable. The ITR one is another story of course.

Edit: As further evidence/suggestion for that idea, the Honda motorcycle engines have these prongs cast into the block specifically for support when the engine is pulled out of the frame of the bike. They serve absolutely no other purpose.


Modified by sscguy at 2:55 AM 10/22/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know, if that's the case, then why does it have such huge bolts holding the brackets to the transmission?

 

That I don't know. I'm just remembering this from a number of threads in the ITR forum from awhile ago. I know I've had a car that did NOT have that little thing (and this car was a monster), and there did not appear to be any damage or ill effects caused by it not being there. The car was tracked as well. All of that adds up to me, regardless of how purposeful it might look. Also, with the number of other ginormous bolts holding the tranny to the block, I can't imagine that one extra thing would make that big of a difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can I just leave it off of there? </TD></TR></TABLE>
yes.

this is coming from a person who has removed those brackets from his engine/gearboxes for seven years now without a problem.

 

those 2 braces are about the 2nd thing we throw away for the stage 2 engine bay weight reduction

 

Thanks all for the info, it's gone. I tried modifying it to fit, but had to remove so much material that it got really thin at one point and cracked when I bolted it on there. The end piece was so thin that it probably wouldn't have done anything for the car anyway. I'll post if my transmission comes flying out of the car or anything.

 

wow, you have a really interesting setup.....

do you run in DM or something?

if you're concerned, you could try to modify one of the stock itr braces (as I have done), OR possibly make your own brace out of an equivalent gauge steel...