I bought a '92 civic DX hatch for $900 about 2 years ago. Car just rolled over 200,000 miles.

Gas mileage is great, I can haul crap, nice interior-- basically its the perfect college beater. Only Problem: Handling.

I sold my '78 chevy malibu project car (350/5spd) to save on gas, and drive something reliable. That old chevy handled much better than this civic. What gives? I thought these things were decent in handling.

So anyways, as the car is a beater, I cannot commit much money to it. I figure, what mod could possibly increase the gas milage *and* make the car more fun? something to improve the handling of course.

The car currently has a decent new set of 14" tires, but the handling is unresponsive, with excessive body roll.

anyway, to get to the point, wtf can I do to give this thing more crisp handling, that will not cost much money, and will not make the thing ride like a steamroller?

I don't know much about suspension on these cars, are there any other models that I can find parts on at the salvage yard that will help mine out? How about things like new bushings, etc? What would you recommend for me?

Thanks for any info!

PS. Bonus points for items that could be categorized as "general maintainence repairs" for the sake of justifying my spending.

 

my stock 94 coupe handled very well, stock suspension but in very good condition

 

hmm... Could my problems be from worn out parts? bushings, etc? The only thing is, the shocks themselves do not feel worn out, but the suspension does not feel as tight and responsive as it should. Do some models come with sway bars or something? maybe mine lacks them. Any way to tell?

 

Shocks and springs make a HUGE difference.

The most popular and the most bang for your buck is Ground Controls and Koni Yellows, but this will set you back almost $1,000.00 new.

But even getting some decent shocks and lowering springs will help alot too.

 

get under your car and check the struts for leaking, then check the rubber bushings for cracking, squish, and deformation. your tires depending on what type they are make a big difference too. if you want cheap, get some tein springs, tokico struts and call it a day. that will put you out about 350 if you install yourself. that should tighten up a lot of things. if your bushings are worn, this will cover it up a little bit. but, if you want to replace the bushings in the car, it will cost you about 230 for the parts, but lots of money or time for the labor. i spent 2 days 6 hours each doing every single bushing in my civic. the difference is night and day, i can cruise as fast as my engine can take me and still feel like the car is on the road and not floating around. the only problem with poly bushings is they make the car louder, require maintenance, and they can make things come loose.

have you done an alignment lately? alignment settings also change the dynamics of a car in a big way

 

I agree with what the others posted. With that many miles check up shocks/springs first. If they are alright or you dont feel like shelling out the money for springs/shocks look into some sway bars.

 

I would think just some new shocks would be a great improvnent as who know what is on there now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would think just some new shocks would be a great improvnent as who know what is on there now.</TD></TR></TABLE>



Shocks could make a huge difference.

If you still wanted a cheap improvement from there you could cut your springs (I know people are going to have a fit about this suggestion, but its due to misinformation). With the better shocks that are able to handle the drop it won't be bouncy, and the heat from cutting them will actually increase the spring rates slightly. The lower center of gravity and adjusted roll centers should make a decent improvment.

Many solo2 champs used to do it before there was a wide selection of aftermarket springs available for cars.

 

I don't think the heat from cutting the spring will increase spring rates...if you think about it this way, some people torch springs to lower them. This causes the spring rates to go down because the car will drive like it is undersprung. If you cut the spring, the used spring rates will be higher because most stock springs are progressive rates. As you get closer to the center or the tighter coils that you can't cut (or the spring will fall through the lower perch), the ride will become a little stiffer. I cut my stock springs just to see what it would ride like on my VX... not bad for a free mod. But I cut too many. 3 in the front and 2 in the back is too many. I ended up tucking a little all the way around.

Another problem with a car that is too low is that your roll center will be wrong. A incorrectly placed roll center will make the car roll more even though it is close to the ground. This has to do with suspension geometry. If you don't believe it, using a good coilover (one that can adjust the height and preload seperately), adjust the height to the recommended setting or a setting that allows for close to stock geometry then drop it to the floor. You will find that the car drives a bit better when it has good geometry.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Another problem with a car that is too low is that your roll center will be wrong. A incorrectly placed roll center will make the car roll more even though it is close to the ground.
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On any car if you can get your roll center to be at the same point as your center of gravity, you can almost eliminate bodyroll.

On a honda, you could lower your car to the ground and still not get to that point. The lower the better as long as you have ground clearence and suspension travel.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you don't believe it, using a good coilover (one that can adjust the height and preload seperately), adjust the height to the recommended setting or a setting that allows for close to stock geometry then drop it to the floor. You will find that the car drives a bit better when it has good geometry.
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Because you run out of suspension travel, look at why manufactures make special shock hats, smaller bump stops, and short stroke shocks.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't think the heat from cutting the spring will increase spring rates..
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Haven't you herd of heat treating steel?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Myth #2) "Cutting a spring makes the spring softer."

I hear this one a lot. Actually, the opposite is true. Three things determine a spring's rate: wire diameter ( to the 4th power, the biggest factor), coil diameter (to the 3rd power), and number of coils (to the first power). As wire diameter increases, spring rates go up. As coil diameter and number of coils increase, spring rates go down. Cutting a spring does not change the wire diameter or the coil diameter. It does, however, reduce the number of coils, which slightly increases the spring rate.
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Thanks guys... very good info.. keep em comin! I think I will look for some sway bars at the scrap yard. Any idea of what models I can get them from?

As far as cutting springs, I did that on my malibu... how many coils to drop about an inch? maybe one coil? At what point does camber become an issue then? I don't want to waste away my tires on bad camber.

hmm

 

i know what heat treating is. i don't think that spring metals are the same when it comes to heat treating steels. the amount of heat required to heat treat a steel is not going to be present with your grinder heating the area around the cutting location.

i also do not agree with your statement that on a honda, the closer to the ground you get the better. a roll center could be roughly located by placing continuing the lines from your suspension arms to find an intersection point. if you did this on a slammed civic for example, your roll center would be under the car which would make your car roll like no other. the center of gravity should be on top of the roll center, not above it.

i know that manufacturers have all the features you mentioned earlier, i have owned many sets of suspension and driven many different cars with different setups. it is obvious that if you run out of suspension travel, your handling will not benefit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Haven't you herd of heat treating steel? </TD></TR></TABLE>

have you heard of annealing steel?

truth be told, the localized heat caused by cutting the spring isn't going to change much. It could anneal the area that was cut causing it to take a set, or it could cause the area that was cut to become brittle. Either way, not a good situation.

 

One of the cheapest upgrades from stock suspension would be stock ITR suspension. I think this is fairly uncommon, though I'm not sure why. The shocks and springs can be had for $200-250, and then a pair or rear ITR LCAs would be ~$75 more. The car will be a bit lower and will handle MUCH better, and certainly better than cut springs on old stock shocks. Password JDM has the shock/springs in stock usually, and their pricing isn't bad. If you decide to go that route, I do have a set of LCAs I don't need that I'd let go for $75 shipped.

 

I would really not go with cheaping out on your suspension...go with somthing half way decent...dont cut em.. your suspension is important so fork over a lil dough so ur car and you can be happy, in the long run your car will be in better condition then say just cutting stock down.

Edit: o yea if u = poor get a job and starta saving, thats what im doing...i have a long ways to go for my new engine.

 

Before you start buying hot aftermarket parts, know that your bushings are most likely shot. Get a urethane kit and replace them all (cheaper than OEM). Check your ball joints and tie-rod ends and get the car aligned. If the car still doesn't handle well enough to your liking, get a front Si and a rear GSR sway bar. Those are pretty damn cheap and will dial out a lot of body roll (your DX doesn't have any sway-bars).

There's no point in having a set of Teins or whatnot on deteriorated components.

 

word. fix the things that make a difference and will affect the upgrades you make to the spring and damper. aftermarket sway bar sets are cheap too.

 

I second the Si front / GSR rear bar setup; cheap, and effective. Get some Prothane or ES end links and bushings for them, too.

If you want some cheap decent shock - after you replace the dead bushings in your control arms - consider some Tokico Illumina or such. Check on Ebay, usually see them for $370 shipped.

As to springs, consider some H&R or Neuspeed lower end springs; they may not make the biggest drop, but they make a good ride and handle a bit better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Spiffious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bought a '92 civic DX hatch for $900 about 2 years ago. Car just rolled over 200,000 miles.

Gas mileage is great, I can haul crap, nice interior-- basically its the perfect college beater. Only Problem: Handling.

I sold my '78 chevy malibu project car (350/5spd) to save on gas, and drive something reliable. That old chevy handled much better than this civic. What gives? I thought these things were decent in handling.

So anyways, as the car is a beater, I cannot commit much money to it. I figure, what mod could possibly increase the gas milage *and* make the car more fun? something to improve the handling of course.

The car currently has a decent new set of 14" tires, but the handling is unresponsive, with excessive body roll.

anyway, to get to the point, wtf can I do to give this thing more crisp handling, that will not cost much money, and will not make the thing ride like a steamroller?

I don't know much about suspension on these cars, are there any other models that I can find parts on at the salvage yard that will help mine out? How about things like new bushings, etc? What would you recommend for me?

Thanks for any info!

PS. Bonus points for items that could be categorized as "general maintainence repairs" for the sake of justifying my spending. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm no expert here, so anyone please correct any mistakes I make here.

First:
- Replace any dead bushings (probably all of them)
- Check shocks for damage/leaks, replace as necessary
- Get decent summer tires

Super cheap mods:
- The dx didn't come with a rear swaybar, if my memory serves. So picking up a used rear swaybar (gs-r for example), would make some improvement in body roll. You'll need to either replace the LCAs with ones that have a swaybar mount, or drill holes (if thats even safe).
- I believe you can mount the front shocks lower in the forks, after removing the brake bracket. That will lower the center of gravity a little.

Slightly more expensive:
- Aftermarket shocks (koni yellow's can lower 0.5" or so just using the bottom spring mount)
- Cut 1 turn off the springs. It will make them stiffer, and you'll need better than stock shocks to handle both the rate increase and the lowering. Otherwise, bounce bounce, bounce...

Even more expensive:
- Good aftermarket shocks
- Aftermarket lowering springs or GC coils.
- Comptech or type-r rear swaybar (with reinforcement)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Haven't you herd of heat treating steel? </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's more fatiguing steel...I could see if they cut it, then quenched it in water, or slowly heated/cooled it in an oven a few times. Heat treating with quick temp changes hardens, which also makes metal more brittle. There's a reason why springs are normally cold-formed.


Back OT. I recently sold my eg hatch w/b18 to get a 90 sedan and put a z6 in it (money for boosting built D soon). On both cars I rolled on steelies for winter, and 13lbs konigs with 205/40/16 Parada Spec2's. The hatch only had tiens, my sedan has 450/350 ebay coilovers and tokico illuminas. The tires alone made a huge difference (more direct road feel, more extreme cornering - just point and shoot). For the sedan, going from old shocks (1 blown) to adjustables - night and day difference. If memory serves me, my CX hatch didn't have any front/rear sway bar - but with just the tires and tiens, tapping the brakes in a corner resulted in great rotation. The sedan is a boat in compairison, and takes more to toss around. With the shocks set 3F/4R and ~1" fender gap, it handles 100x better than stock.

Cliff notes: sticky low profile tires make the difference in response/road feel, springs/shocks make a difference in overall handling. $750 in good parts makes an INCREDIBLE difference (coilovers, adjustable shocks, ST rear sway, 15/16" tires/used rims, new bushings) - from grocery-getter to trophy-winner (well, almost )

Otherwise for &lt;$200 (springs/cheap rear sway) you could greatly increase handling to the point of making you giggle.