I'm in a strange place mentally right now.

I HAVE been working on my kaa. But that's not what I mean.

I went to this High School open house Saturday with an old Girlfriend (just a friend), and although the turnout was disappointing it was still fun. But it's stirred up alot of old and now incongrous feelings...kinda fun, kinda interesting, but also kinda not (probably something to do with my not living up to my potential for my whole life).

And there's nothing going on on this site worth staying on topic for today (IMHO) save of course for Will's big news.

So, not having max work mojo running, I was down to clicking on some of what I'd googled last week and came across this in some stuff about Frank Costin and his bodys:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For some of us, a Seven is more a spirit, an attitude, rather than a historical relic with certificates of authenticity. It's the Prisoner refusing the bureaucracy. It's us refusing the "sanitized plastic cocoons" that clog our roads nowadays. It's what brings us the sympathy of hard-core bikers who share the enjoyment of being exposed to the elements, to the noise and to the gravel, in exchange of top level acceleration and handling.

A Seven, it's that bit of rebellion against the obsession of comfort and security that chokes individuals and corners them in some sad
resignation before the apparently ineluctable and boring order of things. Resistance isn't futile: the sight of a Seven will bring a spark of life in the eye of the most extinct commuter sitting in his comfy chair, drinking some fade bottled capuccino from the local coffee chain, listing to insipid radio advertisements and surrounded by thousands of other motionless vehicles.

The Seven is what brings cheers from kids of all ages and vituperation from others, waving their cane as a threat to life that is passing by before their very eyes.

It smells gasoline and tire dust, it's noisy and it's fast. It is NOT a symbol of wealth and shouldn't ever be so. That's why people come to us with happy faces whereas they ignore Ferraris and Porsches.

The "Chapman concept", according to which you drive to the track, set the day's lap record and drive back home with the same vehicle, can't
be reduced to some depressing authorship or branding equity issue. If you read the book of Ron Champion, and particularily his introduction, you'll realize that Chapman was just one amongst the dozen of boys who
came up with more or less the same superb idea of lightweight, strikingly simple car with extremely modest budget. He was simply a notch more advanced with that concept, and with luck helping he got the recognition we know. I bet that if he was still around, he wouldn't reply to "copies" of the Seven with judicial attacks. He would make a better car instead.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

OMG! Can you believe it? I think I'm back ON TOPIC!

There are a bunch of us on this board with ITR's, and we love them, and not irrationally.

And then there's this other bunch, who've driven ITR's and come away unimpressed, and who seem to enjoy making the point...over and over.

What don't they get?

It's the same thing that guys talking about about the Lotus 7 above.

Scott, who sometimes feels funny about lurking thru the past...but then I glean some insight and I quickly get over such feelings.

 

I had a nice response written out until the interweb ate it.

To me the ITR has lost some of its charm thanks to mass media and popular culture. When it came out it was awesome, a race car for the streets thanks to Honda's desire to remain in Group N. But, today kids go crazy because the Rs are drive, tracked, rallyed or whatever. Its almost like the garage queen of Hondas.

Sean who really doesn't understand exclusivity, he drives a 4 door Accord.

 

Apples and oranges. The Seven is very different than nearly any other car, very minimalist. The ITR, while a nice sporty version of the Integra, doesn't seem to have the 'no compromises' philosophy of the Seven.

Haven't driven either, but that's the way I see it. I wouldn't mind owning either, though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had a nice response written out until the interweb ate it.

To me the ITR has lost some of its charm thanks to mass media and popular culture. When it came out it was awesome, a race car for the streets thanks to Honda's desire to remain in Group N. But, today kids go crazy because the Rs are drive, tracked, rallyed or whatever. Its almost like the garage queen of Hondas.

Sean who really doesn't understand exclusivity, he drives a 4 door Accord. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I completely understand.

I had originally written up a much better post that I'm sure everyone would have understood and agreed with, but then I blacked out for a second and when I came to I found that I must have deleted it. And my watch was off by three days.

I do know that the ITR has seen it's day come and go. But that doesn't mean I've forgotten how it used to make me smile.

Time is such a funny thing. And to me the ITR is no more over than the GTA, or the GTO, or High School. Or ME.

That car was turned out by somebody who wanted to offer us a Really Neat car.

The fact that the GSR is Really Good too...is, well, nice.

How about this: why not compare the ITR to an LS?

Scott, who doesn't care about the non-believers...my therapist tells me that they aren't important anyway, and that I should just focus on getting my kaa running.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...snip...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are right, you can't forget great cars. Much like the Jaguar XJ220, the weekend project that turned into something brilliant. Or the McLaren F1, one time the fastest thing with 4 wheels.

Just like in that movie The Emperor's Club where Kevin Kline goes "How will history remember you." How will history remember these great marquees of automotive brillance, will they be numbers in some book or examples in a garage or memories among the enthusiasts that owned and drove them.

 

I think that.

Yes, just like how now we can look back on people whose memories were buried long ago and yet know that they loved as we love.

Scott, who remembers getting stoned and listening to Pink Floyd's Animals a long time ago as a bunch of us ogled the new YZ250D...Could I then have imagined that I would one day be here now thinking this way?

 

You went to a high school open house and didn't check out all the high school girls? Totally missing the point!

 

Scott

You don't get stoned and listen to Pink Floyd's Animals today?

Casey - who is eagerly awaiting to one day actually drive on a real race track

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superpilun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You went to a high school open house and didn't check out all the high school girls? Totally missing the point! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its Scott... what else is there to say.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> How will history remember these great marquees of automotive brillance, will they be numbers in some book or examples in a garage or memories among the enthusiasts that owned and drove them.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not sure how history will remember them but I know how I'll remember them. The ITR was my dream "race" car before I really knew what I wanted. I thought I wanted something that rare that I'd be happy leaving stock... I was right about the rare part...mostly.

Now I've got an ITA car for the track and a shiny, new STi for the street and couldn't be happier (well unless instead of the STi I had a 911 Turbo 3.6 but that's not going to happen anytime soon). Do I miss the ITR? Sometimes, yes. Is it something that couldn't be essentially replicated off any DC2 chassis? Basically, yes. But the one thing any replica would be missing is what makes the ITR such a gem; the fact that it is an R.

Maybe it's like the OPM vs/ Kaaz/Quaife debate... sometimes a car (or part) ends up being more than just the sum of it's pieces?

Christian, who agrees the time of the R has passed but is certainly glad to have owned ITR #1115

 

Officially, and in fact, I Do Not get stoned anymore. It's been a looong time. Measured in decades. And I Do Not recommend others get stoned either. I don't think it really makes anything better. Certainly not in the long run.

I would however very much like to listen to Pink Floyd's Animals while in the shop. But I'm too cheap to buy much music which doubles the bummer of how crappy radio is in my town.

And speaking of Rrrrr's and Dream Cars. Mine was never really a dream car, and I acquired it pretty absentmindedly. I've gotten over almost every dream car I've ever had...knowing that they were unaffordable or ultimately useless.

I really don't think it's just the programming or rationalization of a humble worker bee telling me that I'm happy with what I have. I really believe I am. The ITR is That Good - meaning it's good enough for me. It's Just Right. Not too this. Not too that.

Sure this is newer. And that is faster. I know that I can never win that race, and such a win is so bereft of meaning that it's ridiculous on the face.

Scott, who thinks that Rrrrr's are actually for very together and clue'd in people who totally get it. I think I'm gonna go get that CD this week.

 

You don't need Floyd's Animals, what you really need to do is buy Ummagumma.

 

to me ITR's magic is in its bone stock form.... once you modify it (especially the suspension), then it is just another integra...

 

Thanks Scott. My motivation to work on my car needed a kick in the ***!

 

My R was the car that forced me to get involved in motorsports. I've been a race fan since as early as I can remember, but never more involved than that. I never bought into the hype. In fact, one of the main reasons I got the R was that the GSR had a sunroof and nasty leather seats. After driving my R through some twisting, turning mountain roads, there was no way I could not get it on track.

 

I first drove an ITR from the dealer's lot and walked away un-impressed as it had so little torque, and I didn't know about the upper reaches of the rev-band. I then had a ride with Mike Galati's in his Realtime ITR at Mid-Ohio in 98 and it blew my mind. I went back to a different dealer in the spring and drove one like I stole it for half an hour, with no salesman in it. That's when I GOT IT. I went back to the dealer and promptly bought it, first time I had ever bought a brand new car, but I had to have it. And I had always been a Super 7 fan too. It did street duty for a while, but I never found it totally satisfying as there was just not enough opportunity to thrash it where I live, and a good thrashing it is what that little baby needs. So I took it to the track to use instead of my other track car and fell in love with it there. It then got lower, stiffer, torque-ier and just a whole lot faster. It now does its duty as a Porsche beater, which is what it was intended to do for sure;-) Having just passed a GT3 (more than once) on the back straight at the Glen under power this year with it, it has surely arrived. Little white missile.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm in a strange place mentally right now.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

[sarcasm] No. Really?[/sarcasm]

I recently had an ex-girlfriend I haven't heard from in 16 years track me down. We met for dinner, talked for about 3 hours, and generally had a good time. Then she went home and her husband yelled and threw things at her. Jealousy is not pretty. But she *is* pretty. I was awed that she could actually look as good as she did when she was 20 (and she was a finalist for Playboy's "Girls of the Southeastern Conference" back then) 16 years and 2 kids later.
Of course, lots of disposable income and a really good surgeon doesn't hurt.

I suppose I can understand, to a small degree at least, her husband's jealousy. I imagine its pretty tough to keep your sanity if you are a possessive person and have a wife that looks like that.
At any rate, we're not going to see each other anymore. Thats a good call I think.

Scott, who figured if Scott could go off topic about old girlfriends he could as well.

 

It's not really like that.

You gotta understand...I was "A Racer" when I was in High School...or in other words: You say there's a movie out called The 40 Year Old Virgin? I don't need to see it.

I'm pretty lucky women-wise. I married a really good one, and she doesn't worry that I keep a few women friends. The gal I went to this thing with was one of my best buddies in HS - maybe more like family - she is the niece of one of my Dad's friends and her husband is a periodic contact within my industry. I'm even still friends with my last girlfriend - and her S.O. doesn't worry about it either. I just think of them as extended family.

But not everybody "Get's It". And so sometimes you have to leave old friends to their choices. I lost my best friend John during freshman year of HS when he went way off the deep end on pot and acid. I've lost friends as they tried to climb higher on the social ladder they thought they saw too.

One little thing I really enjoy about getting old is how so much of the social bullshit drops away - fun as that can be at times. I look back on some of the social bullshit in HS as kind of delicious now. But I've learned over time that it was devastating to some of my friends.

AND THAT'S ANOTHER REASON WHY I LOVE MY ITR - it's like a cool new friend that turns into a great old friend.

Scott, who's ITR is like an old friend that's been in a coma for the summer..."Wake Up DC - You've got Motons now!"

 

I've never heard of a Seven (outside of bicycles). Anyone got a pic?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When it came out it was awesome, a race car for the streets </TD></TR></TABLE>

I want to bang my head against the desk every time i read this. Its nowhere near the feel of an honest race car.

The ITR is a blast just stock, as its got all the 'right' parts and its a lot of fun to drive - best stock FWD car out there. But its still a heavy, bloated, low torque, cushy/quiet street car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The ITR is a blast just stock, as its got all the 'right' parts and its a lot of fun to drive - best stock FWD car out there. But its still a heavy, bloated, low torque, cushy/quiet street car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep.
The original Elise... Now THAT was race car. Light, no creature comforts, and a kidney busting suspension right off the showroom floor.
Of course, now its been Americanized. A/C, Stereo, Airbags...
I'm sure it will soon have power heated seats and GPS.

The CRX Si was more of a "race car" than the Type R IMO. Light, stiff, no radio (dealer option), no power steering.
Neon ACR... Konis, Big hubs, big sway bars, no radio, no AC, not even a rear defrost.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep.
The original Elise... Now THAT was race car. Light, no creature comforts, and a kidney busting suspension right off the showroom floor.
Of course, now its been Americanized. A/C, Stereo, Airbags...
I'm sure it will soon have power heated seats and GPS.

The CRX Si was more of a "race car" than the Type R IMO. Light, stiff, no radio (dealer option), no power steering.
Neon ACR... Konis, Big hubs, big sway bars, no radio, no AC, not even a rear defrost. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ferrari F40 - now that was a race car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94accordsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ferrari F40 - now that was a race car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That was a rich guy's toy. Nowhere close to the 'spirit' of the seven.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That was a rich guy's toy. Nowhere close to the 'spirit' of the seven.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmm...

Twin turbo V8, no PS, no power brakes or anything, no interior to speak about, I guess you can call it a rich guy's toy. Sure it seldom got driven like it should, but the ones I've seen at the tracks being driven hard look impressive.

 

I personally could never track an R honestly, If I owned one I would drive it but for some reason I could never bring myself to track it becuase the fear of a wreck would always be on my mind. Yes I know that was thier main purpose was to be tracked but I will admit the that the allure of the R and it's few numbers would cause me to baby it 95% of the time.

I am the type of person that will cuss out someone for driving a Corvette in the rain =/ Certain cars should be treated with respect even if buy one is pocket change. More power to you guys that can afford to buy and race the Rs but if I owned one it would never see rain, snow, or a gravel road, I am not saying I would have a show queen but I would not take a lot of risks with it either.